Fertilizing Larger Collections

[ibreakforpalms]

Hello All,

All of us have a huge amount of palms and other tropicals in our yards.  Some of us have more space than others.  I'm guessing that those of us with bigger spaces have alot more fertilizing to do.  That being said, my question is, what do you guys, and gals, do to better manage this chore?  Is fertigation the answer (at least to deliver some weekly micronutrients to the landscape)?  Maybe some nurserymen (Jeff, Phil, etc.) have some tricks of the trade that could help us out (Pleeease!!!).  Or maybe some members that have big collections have the answer.  They can't be dragging 50lb bags of fert around the landscape or plunging countless Lutz Corp fertilizer spikes into the ground every time they have to feed their collection, can they?   When they were done they would have to turn right around and start all over again.   Any ideas/answers to this would be immensely appriciated.

[www.dadluvsu.com]

If I had to take a guess...  Three words; Time Release Fertilizers.   :cool:

[ibreakforpalms]

Hi PiousPalms,

It still takes alot of time and effort to apply time release fertilizers.  Are we talking 3 month or 9 month?

[www.dadluvsu.com]

I certainly am not speaking from experience...  I have about 1200 palms in containers for hobby and I use 9 month time release with micros so I don't get every ounce of my spare time bogged down with their maintainence...  I'm sure there are more effective programs...

The likely answer to large scale operations is ranch hands...  more manpower...

[ibreakforpalms]

"Ranch hands", that's a way to put it!  Hopefully that doesn't go away anytime soon, but like you said there must be some other type of effective program.  Hopefully someone will interject.

[Jeff Searle]

Jason,

    It's funny you asked. Just so happens that I'm going home today from the nursery and ..........you guessed. I'm starting to fertilize my whole yard.  I have 2.1 acres. I brought over this past saturday a pallet of palm special. Thats 40 bags or 1 ton. So for the next few evenings, I load a few bags in the trailer that I pull with my John Deere and start spreading it with a cup, and broadcast it around through my entire landscape. And 40 bags would'nt be enough. I probably will go through another 20 bags or so. It's alot of work, no doubt. I just do some like I said, a few evenings at a time.

Jeff

[TikiRick]

I do my entire collection by splitting it into quarters...front yard one weekend, northside one weekend, backyard another weekend, and the other side yard (south) yet another weekend. I use palm special as well and hand feed any problems that i notice while addressing that quarter.

As for the containerized palms, I don't usually use granular fertilizer. I have had some serious burns, so I stick with diluted liquids I mix up myself.

[Don Little]

Jeff or Rick,  

Do you use Palm Special because you have had good sucess with it or because of perhaps bargain prices or both.  I know at least for Jeff, you have a very large collection and I can understand price being a factor, but price not being a factor given a choice what would you use?  And when you say you broadcast it, do you broadcast everehere or around each individual palm.  When I was doing some planting a couple of weeks ago I was coming across palm roots 8-10' or more away from the nearest palm, although they could be roots to any number of ones in the vicinity?  If I could just broadcast over the entire general area, this would also save a lot of time.

Thanks,

Don

[ibreakforpalms]

start spreading it with a cup, and broadcast it around through my entire landscape

Jeff,

Do you measure at all?  How much do you actually use?  What do you go by (per pound of fert.)?  How often (2, 3, or 4 months apart)?  In other words, what's the method to the madness?  Sorry in advance for all these "basic" questions !

[bgl]

We have 5 acres and just over 5000 palms in the ground. All sizes, from a couple of inches tall to 60-70 ft tall Pigafettas. I use Nutricote 13-13-13 (plus micronutrients) exclusively, 180 day time release (also exists in 90, 270 and 360 day). I actually only fertilize once every 12-15 months or so, but I've found that the palms seem to be perfectly happy with the 180 day stuff, even though I do NOT fertilize every 6 months.

I have divided our garden into 42 areas, each with its own name, so when I fertilize one particular area I keep track of this in a little database, so I can go back and see exactly how often I fertilize various areas. Typically, I empty four 50 lb bags into a wheelbarrow, head to the area in question and then broadcast the fertilizer. In most areas the palms are close enough that I just broadcast the fertilizer covering the whole area, since I know that the roots will typically extend a good 10-12 ft away from many of the bigger ones.

I've found that not using time release fertilizer is a waste. Palm Special is MUCH cheaper than Nutricote, but if we have a heavy rain overnight the Palm Special will just wash away, while Nutricote stays in place. Plus it won't burn the grass.

[Mike Evans]

Nuticote 13-5-11, 360 day slow release is what I use in the nursery.  The container plants take the longest to fert.  Although I probably fert every 1.5 year for the containers.  

see this link:  http://www.florikan.com/main.php?mode=products&section=tpg

I use the cheaper Lesco, 13-3-13 for the garden palms, every 5+ months.  It does take time, but it has to be a labor of love.

It also gives me time to look at the palms.   I use the wheelborrow method like Bo, and add other things like Ironite, & dolimitic lime in the mix.

[Tad]

on the yard, I use el cheapo 15-15-15 5 dollar a bag.

on the palms I use osmocote,or agriform tablets

I also will somtimes hose with the injector system.

the agriform tablets are my favorite. once a year, 4 cents a piece use 3 or 4 per tree!!

[ZoneTenNut]

I fertilize at least 3 times a year and then spot fert. as needed. I mainly use Lesco, as it is the most readily available, but I stock up on some of the palm special at the palm sales each year, as well. I lug around a 5 gal. bucket and spread with a cup or broadcast by hand and I do the yard in sections, time permitting.

In addition to this, I do a complete Ironite fertilizing once each year, around all the trees, palms, and bushes. They love it and in our poor soils, really seems to give everything a healthy kick.

Roger

[ibreakforpalms]

Nobody has any tricks?

[Bilbo]

Howdy Jeff and Andrea!

Here we goes and as Im reckoned to be controversial so open the gunfire  NOW!

I strongly advocate high N fert for established palms and fast growth.

Thats it.

Nothing fancy and no magic there.

I uses a 25:15:15 with micronutrients plus sometimes an additional Nitrate booster.

Most palms respond well to this high N regime.

Its hardly a secret and here cant be a commercial palm grower unaware

A few examples of N responsive palms are Queens, Kings and mature Pindos.

No doubt there are very many others tho a certain few palms Dont respond to high N such as as C.humilis and Trachy f.

Also all potential slow growers seem reluctant.

The truly tropicals will go crazy on thishigh N diet.

Regardez

Juan

[redant]

I do as Jeff does, load up the tractor, bring a 5 gal bucket as well and a quart cup to disperse. 2.5 acres takes close to a full day to do and several hundred dollars of fert. I do this 3 of 4 times a year. This is not a cheap hobby.

[Kris]

Dear Jason  

for my container pots i have started using grouth taps.but i have to use one tab very one & half weeks for full pontential.

and to my surprise it works.but before that i was using only D.A.P one teas spoon for one bucket of water evey week.

here is a still my friend & thanks for starting such a intreasting topic and more glad that all the heavy weights of the forum are talking their teqnicques too_WOW !  

and iam watching this thread as learning student    

Love,

Kris  

[Matt in SD]

Well I guess I do things a little unconventionally compared to everyone else.   I use only organic fertilizers.  I usually do solid stuff (manure and compost) one time in the spring and then liquids once a month until fall.  For the liquids I use a siphon mixer, mix up a 5g bucket with various liquid organic goodies (some years it's fish emulsion and kelp, lately I've used brand name mixes of solubilized crap from various animals).  Every other time I add epsom salt, and other micronutrients.

I only have about 1/4 acre, but the siphon mixer is very efficient, it takes about the same time as it does to water, except you have to refill the concentrate bucket a couple times.  But it does get very expensive.  I'm pretty sure I spend even more than I would if I just threw nutricote out once a year.  And the cost of the pre-made complete organic mixes is not much different than just buying the ingredients separately.  Sh!@!# just costs a lot in the city.

The nice thing with the organics is that most are effectively slow release, even the liquids.  They bind into the soil and are slowly broken down into more readily available nutrients.  I have to say I was worried at first since the NPK numbers are always much lower than the synthetic fertilizers.  But my bananas grow like weeds and have fruited in under a year in a few cases...no shortage of nutrients.

For pots I use Nutricote.  As far as I can tell, the liquid organic fertilizers do absolutely nothing in artificial growing environments.  I think I know why, but it's a long story.

Matt

[waykoolplantz]

We too have a large collection...on 5 acres...load the golf cart with a few bags & coffee can.

Usually 4X a year...have been using Lesco....just got a pallet of Atlantic "new" Palm Special ( now with more micro..esp Boron)  Adding micro as well in some cases

Built a greenhouse last year (as Wilma destroyed my pool screen enclosure which gave some filtering & protection)..Osmocote

[Phil]

Jason,

Fertilizing an outdoor garden is actually quite easy.  This is because you just broadcast the fertilizer, spreading it around the soil below the palms.  Hand fertilizing a nursery is much harder because you have to put the stuff right into the pot.  This means more bending over and reaching.  Matt is right; organics are great.  One can use blood, mild manures, etc.  They don't kill the worms and can give great results.  But, when you use liquid organics like fish, it's a slow undertaking.  The Siphonex is really slow and you have to spend all day slowly watering the garden.  Horse stable litter is very good, but hard to find nowadays.  You just spread it around and the shavings look nice.  

Now for tips: I broadcast a mixture of slow release  60% (I use Osmocote for tropical plants), blood meal 20%, microelements (Ironite) 10%, and about 10% quick release like Simplot.  The latter is cheap, gives a quick punch, but has risk.  If one always uses the quick release, sooner or later you'll kill something, maybe even a big palm.  I mix it up into 5 gallon buckets and broadcast it around, matching the canopy overhead on the ground.  Roots pretty much follow the overhead canopy.  I always avoid putting fertilizer into the crown of any plant, avoid piling up against the trunk, and scatter evenly.  You must ALWAYS deep prewater before applying chemicals to avoid burn.  I also like to topdress with fir shavings or mulch over the fertilizer.  

Finally, I hate spikes.  They offer too many surprises.   I've had hundreds of calls of plant deaths after spikes.  Avoid them.  They are also more work, when broadcasting the stuff is so easy.  Once the stuff is mixed up, one can usually do an average yard in an hour or two.

Phil

[ibreakforpalms]

Thanks for the input everybody!

This forum is great!  Hopefully I can help all of you in the future.

[Matt in SD]

Phil,

Jesse was actually the person that got me started into organics.  It takes me about 2 hours to fertilize my garden with the siphon mixer, so I guess that would make a 1 acre garden an all day chore.  One thing that I forgot to add is that if you mix in an organic wetting agent with the liquid mix, the water penetrates much better and it doesn't take as long to get things watered well.  The wetting agents derived from Yucca work very well.

Matt

[ruskinPalms]

Well, I have a rather small yard. I tend to fertilize the entire yard, grass and all, with Lesco palm fertilizer with micronutrients a few times a year. I only have about 5000 square feet of land to fertilize so one bag gets the job done. I use one of the hand broadcasters with the crank that you turn. I can get the whole yard done in about 30 minutes I guess. I have never really times it. Anyway, my advice on fertilizing here in FL is to keep it as simple as possible: use palm fertilizer with micros on the whole yard. The grass loves it and the palms love it. Plus, you don't have to worry about causing nutrient deficiencies. Like it was already mentioned, the palm roots extend well beyond the landscape beds boundaries so again, I urge you to fertilize the whole yard with palm fertilizer with micros. If you want to fertilize more often (i.e. instead of every 4 months maybe every 2 to 3 months) and maybe get even more growth, then it would probably be OK to alternate the more expensive Lesco palm fertilizer with cheaper Walmart palm fertilizer. I think the Lesco stuff I buy is around $15 per bag wheras the palm fertilizer walmart carries is probably less than half that. I am not worried about the price so much since I have a tiny yard anyway but those of you with multiple acres may want or need to consider cheaper fertilizers to add to the more expensive, designer stuff. Just be sure to fertilize with the better stuff with micros a couple times a year at least to prevent some of the weirder palm problems that are seen here and there. Especially, I see strange deficiencies at homes and businesses that are only fertilizing with a lawn specific fertilizer.  Good Luck!

[Phil]

Matt,

Jesse really likes the organic fertilizers and is big on Patio Plus from Kellogs.  I agree that there's a lot of advantages to going totally organic.  But, it takes a bit more work and time.  Re the Siphonex, I started using one of these about 25 years ago.  My complaint with the thing is that it reduces flow at the hose end.  That's just the way it was designed.  This means more time is needed standing there waiting for enough fertilizer/water to pass.  Re container plants when you have a lot of them, you have to have a system that adds fertilizer directly into the water.  This saves tons of time.  In our nursery, we use a Dosatron and soluble fertilizer.  With this machine, there's essentially no drop in flow.  I've never used fish with the Dosatron, mostly because the smell would keep people away from the nursery.  We do use a fair amount of blood when repotting.  And, I will use it selectively on "yellow" plants.  Example: yellow Beccariophoenix (windows).  give it blood and three months later it's green.

Phil

[LJG]

(Phil @ Apr. 28 2007,05:35)

QUOTE

we use a Dosatron and soluble fertilizer.

After a lot of research and questioning of the experts, I have decided to install this system inline with my sprinklers with bypass values, etc. I have 1 acre and it will soon be ALL tropicals. From doing the research, this seems like a winner to do a lot of things.

[Tad]

we have 3 dosamatics.

1 at my farm, 1 at my dads place and a spare.

[Tad]

i like this fert.

somtimes i just use n32 if we have been knifing it in in the fields.

[Tad]

these are also in my fert program.

and at roughly a nickel each, I really think they are worth every penny.

[Tad]

[Jeff Searle]

I finally got around to finishing my fertilizing of the yard. My tractor that I use to tote the bags around.

Jeff

[Jeff Searle]

One last shot with my palm special, bucket and cup.

Jeff

[Kris]

Dear Palmotrafficate  

those stills of yours are great & self explainatory...thanks.

sorry i forgot your name...i wish to see it in you signature_please !

and i went thorugh you signature,its brimming with full of

optimisium....i really like it there !

and dear jeff that mini looks great and the fan plams on either

side seen is it copernica balyenia...?

its very beautiful.

Thanks guys for the information & teq support from seasoned pro's like you.

seeing this i wish even my dad was a farmer or nursery man.because this subject is very intresting to me.

Love,

Kris  

[ibreakforpalms]

Jeff,

Thanks for posting those pictures.  Finally done!

[Matt in SD]

Phil,

You mentioned the Siphonex reducing the flow rate.  The one I have does not do this.  I actually requires that you use a hose end sprayer that has no flow restrictor.  If anything, there are issues with the flow being too high, causing runoff.  The siphon I use is a simple, cheap ($16) thing that just does a fixed 1/16 mixing ratio.  The only problem with it is that it's plastic and the thread strip after maybe 30 times attaching to a spout (but hey, it's cheap to replace).

And I also use patio plus as an amendment when planting, per Jesse's recommendation, it is really good stuff.

Matt

[Peter]

What is the shelf life of fertilizer?  I've still got some  APEX Palm fert that I received back in fall of '04-is it still viable?

[Tad]

look what santa brought me this afternoon!!

[LJG]

(palmotrafficante @ May 02 2007,14:41)

QUOTE

look what santa brought me this afternoon!!

What model? How much is you don't mind me asking. Also, is this personal use or for your nursery?

[Tad]

this is the D8R 40 gpm. cost was 676.35 at the local warehouse. this one will be in the new shade house.

[Moose]

On ‎4‎/‎27‎/‎2007‎ ‎9‎:‎14‎:‎51‎, Phil said:

Jason,

Fertilizing an outdoor garden is actually quite easy.  This is because you just broadcast the fertilizer, spreading it around the soil below the palms.  Hand fertilizing a nursery is much harder because you have to put the stuff right into the pot.  This means more bending over and reaching.  Matt is right; organics are great.  One can use blood, mild manures, etc.  They don't kill the worms and can give great results.  But, when you use liquid organics like fish, it's a slow undertaking.  The Siphonex is really slow and you have to spend all day slowly watering the garden.  Horse stable litter is very good, but hard to find nowadays.  You just spread it around and the shavings look nice.  

 

Now for tips: I broadcast a mixture of slow release  60% (I use Osmocote for tropical plants), blood meal 20%, microelements (Ironite) 10%, and about 10% quick release like Simplot.  The latter is cheap, gives a quick punch, but has risk.  If one always uses the quick release, sooner or later you'll kill something, maybe even a big palm.  I mix it up into 5 gallon buckets and broadcast it around, matching the canopy overhead on the ground.  Roots pretty much follow the overhead canopy.  I always avoid putting fertilizer into the crown of any plant, avoid piling up against the trunk, and scatter evenly.  You must ALWAYS deep prewater before applying chemicals to avoid burn.  I also like to topdress with fir shavings or mulch over the fertilizer.  

 

Finally, I hate spikes.  They offer too many surprises.   I've had hundreds of calls of plant deaths after spikes.  Avoid them.  They are also more work, when broadcasting the stuff is so easy.  Once the stuff is mixed up, one can usually do an average yard in an hour or two.

 

Phil

Agree with Phil! Never a fan of 'spike" fertilizers

[Tingtongthai]

i  use  this  here its 25$ a  bag for 56lb-25kg  Id  actually neglected the trees  for a couple of years due to working on the  land so started to fertlise a few  weeks  back