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Brahea armata and spines/thorns

Cikas

By Cikas
in DISCUSSING PALM TREES WORLDWIDE

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Cikas Mentor

Cikas

Posted
Posted

I have this Brahea armata for 3 years now. It is very silver, but I do not see any spines/thorns on petioles yet.

When it is normal for Brahea armata to develop spines/thorns on petioles?

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  • Upvote 2
Phoenikakias Grand Master

Phoenikakias

Posted
Posted

From evolutionary aspect it would not make the least sense, if it had not spines in this size and obtained them later.

Steve Mac Grand Master

Steve Mac

Posted
Posted
34 minutes ago, Phoenikakias said:

"From evolutionary aspect it would not make the least sense"

I see what you are saying, but evolution does not always make sense. It just has to work, and not even very well either, if there are not better systems actively competing against it for an extended period of time. Look at all of the limitations of the human body, you could design some of our features to work better yourself. Or to put it another way when that plant was evolving it may only have had the variables of late spikes or no spikes. It is described as 'slightly armed with dark thorns' by palmpedia, so I think that they probably will come later despite the obvious inefficiency. 

  • Upvote 1

Cheers Steve

It is not dead, it is just senescence.

   

 

 

Brad Mondel Grand Master

Brad Mondel

Posted
Posted

Are you sure it's not super silver? 

Los Angeles, CA and Myrtle Beach, SC.

Brett in Mission Viejo Proficient

Brett in Mission Viejo

Posted
Posted

Another Brahea without spines, other than Super Silver, is Brahea Calcarea. But it is a greener variety. Super Silver looks more green-blue at that age than the pictured grey-blue palm to me. But it could be the ambient light. At closer look, there might be underdeveloped spines of Armata in the picture, but it is a little blurry, when enlarged. Good guessing game!

Mission Viejo, CA

Limited coastal influence

5-10 days of frost

IPS and PSSC Member

TexasColdHardyPalms Grand Master

TexasColdHardyPalms

Posted
Posted

Congratulations,  you lucked out are an owner of a super silver. 

Pete in Paradise Hills Proficient

Pete in Paradise Hills

Posted
Posted

Super silver indeed. Armata and Clara both have sharp teeth

Paradise Hills, 4 miles inland, south facing slope in the back, north facing yard in the front

sergiskan Rising Star

sergiskan

Posted
Posted

Super silver starts with green leaves, normally emerge two fronds at the same time, and doesn't have tomentum

  • Upvote 1
DoomsDave Grand Master

DoomsDave

Posted
Posted

SUPER SIlVER!

Thornless, so pretty.

Just went out into the garden to check.

Clara bit me! :rant:

  • Upvote 1

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

foxtail Mentor

foxtail

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, sergiskan said:

Super silver starts with green leaves, normally emerge two fronds at the same time, and doesn't have tomentum

Dimelo Sergi, I'm Boriken in the InfoJ. site.

  • Upvote 1

Rio_Grande.gif

Brett in Mission Viejo Proficient

Brett in Mission Viejo

Posted
Posted

The tormentum on the lower frond in the bottom of the third picture has me wondering if this is a pure Super Silver, or not. I have not seen tormentum on mine or local others, but it could be a rare-normal trait, or maybe some hybrid?

Mission Viejo, CA

Limited coastal influence

5-10 days of frost

IPS and PSSC Member

foxtail Mentor

foxtail

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, DoomsDave said:

SUPER SIlVER!

Thornless, so pretty.

Just went out into the garden to check.

Clara bit me! :rant:

Ouch, licky licky licky :o

Rio_Grande.gif

sergiskan Rising Star

sergiskan

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, foxtail said:

Dimelo Sergi, I'm Boriken in the InfoJ. site.

Hello Boriken!

i know!! Best regards!

  • Upvote 1
sergiskan Rising Star

sergiskan

Posted
Posted
18 hours ago, Pal Meir said:

Maybe as a consequence of the international disarmament talks your Brahea got disarmed > Brahea inarmata. :floor:

:lol:LOL

Phoenikakias Grand Master

Phoenikakias

Posted
Posted
On 27/5/2016, 2:44:02, gtsteve said:

I see what you are saying, but evolution does not always make sense. It just has to work, and not even very well either, if there are not better systems actively competing against it for an extended period of time. Look at all of the limitations of the human body, you could design some of our features to work better yourself. Or to put it another way when that plant was evolving it may only have had the variables of late spikes or no spikes. It is described as 'slightly armed with dark thorns' by palmpedia, so I think that they probably will come later despite the obvious inefficiency. 

In the american continents there were many more herbivora animals, than  the present stand, by the time of arrival of first humans (clovis culture). Compared also to habit of other palms like Washingtonia, one can say with certainty that spikes were developed as an adaptation to such fauna in the far past and spikes were remaining prominent until the palm reached  a certain height beyond access by those animals. Also there is a biological principle, that any organism avoids unnecessary consume of energy and resources for obtaining some traits with no whatever usefulness. Of course all above is applicable only in the wild nature. Such mutations would go through the filter of competition and adaptation and fail to survive. In the light of above conclusions I was meaning that the individual under examination would have an unnecessary mutation if it starts producing spikes later in its life. Such a mutation in a habitat before say 11.000 years would have failed to reach maturity. But what are the odds for a mutation really, regarding the specimen under inspection. That was meant to be my point. I think namely that the odds for a true mutation are less the those for another identity or even a hybrid.

  • Upvote 2
Cikas Mentor

Cikas

Posted
  • Author
Posted
On 27.05.2016. 03:21:16, Brad Mondel said:

Are you sure it's not super silver? 

I ordered this palm as Brahea armanta from nursery .

But in nursery they did in fact had both Brahea armata and Brahea ''Super Silver'' of the same size. ''Super Silver'' was way more expensive, so I ordered Brahea armata.

But I suppose, it is possible that they mistakenly sent me a Brahea ''Super Silver'' ( would not be the first time ).

Oh, now I'am confused. :mellow:

TexasColdHardyPalms Grand Master

TexasColdHardyPalms

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Cikas said:

I ordered this palm as Brahea armanta from nursery .

But in nursery they did in fact had both Brahea armata and Brahea ''Super Silver'' of the same size. ''Super Silver'' was way more expensive, so I ordered Brahea armata.

But I suppose, it is possible that they mistakenly sent me a Brahea ''Super Silver'' ( would not be the first time ).

Oh, now I'am confused. :mellow:

Nothing to be confused about. That is a super silver.

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