Advise for Container raised Brahea Armata

[Collectorpalms]

I will once again attempt to plant 500 or so Brahea Armata (and Washingtonia Filifera). I am going to grow them in 9" deep Anderson bands. I need any advise if anyone has it, mainly on soil propagation.  They sprout very well and do well up to a certain point. It seems as if they are genetically prone to die once they get their third strap leaf like clockwork if their is too much moisture. ( For example, I had a 3 strap leaf in a flat of 1 leaf seedlings and after a rainy spell this spring the 3 leafer died and the rest of the 24 didn't miss a beat). I assume they are rotting at the soil surface. Since they are a desert species I think I could water them from below on irragation trays and raise them under clear roof so they do not get too wet at the surface. However, that seems like a lot of work. I would rather like to know what other people have had luck with starting them and getting them up to 5 gallons. I am not sure what is the best combinations of soil ingredients for my Texas 8b/9a climate where it can rain days in a row, or go a month with no rain... but relatively high humidity in the summer. Possibly top off the top 2-3 inches with coarse sand or decomposed granite so it dries out quickly? Also, I read they like alkaline soil, so doesn't any organic matter I add make it acidic?

Thanks,

Ryan

[lyle-turner]

try a damping off product one i have used is "previcur" use it when sowing the seeds and then weekly ( look previcur up on google will tell you more about usage and amounts etc) just an idea the others will prob have other sugestions

regards

lyle

[Jeff zone 8 N.C.]

Ryan, I want to thank you for the great Butia yatay that I recently purchased from you. You send out a really good product. I hope you will offer Butia eriospatha soon. Now about those Brahea armata and Washingtonia filifera. I do not grow commercially but do have a larger hobby collection of palms and find both of your mentioned palms very hard to get out of large seedling stage, even though I find them easy to start. I am on the North Carolina coast. I lose these (as well as Jubaea and Parajubaea) when it gets hot and humid AND it rains regularly whether the rain is for days on end or days apart. Once that rain hits the plants, it seems that I might as well give up on them even if I move them out of the rain. When I pull the dead ones out of the pot they have nice healthy white roots but died from the crown. I always plant mine in a very sandy mix with plenty of perlite and some cow manure (and a little clay has been tried) with also pine bark and crushed sea shell for alkalinity and drainage. The crushed seashell is purchased at chicken feed stores, but may be too expensive for production so I guess limestone would do the same thing. There has been some discussion lately about not using extra drainage such as rock in the bottom of pots. I will start using the same mix from bottom to top of the pot. But my main change will be exactly as you said. I will put these seedlings inside a small hoop house and water from the bottom, until they are large and very root bound. Sorry I can not give you a proportion of components for the mix as I have none, but I suspect you will know when you have the right mix. Of course it would have to drain very quickly, but also have some wicking effect to get water up through the soil when bottom watered. I'm thinking the soil is not as important as keeping the plant dry. Oh and by the way Washingtonia robusta does not have the rot problem here it just burns back most winters. I know the W. filifera is possible here as there are two gigantic ones growing here since 1985 (that year was 0F low). These are growing in the most unlikely place. They are on one of our barrier beach islands, Bogue Banks / Atlantic Beach). They  grow just two feet above sealevel and just 10 feet or so from SALT WATER, on a canal, that is 100% Atlantic Ocean seawater. Thats right. The soil is only two feet deep and then you would hit water. That water would have to be naturally brackish being so near the salt water. To top that off they are in the open, just 1/4 mile from the ocean and experience lot's of salt laden wind from the ocean as well as plenty of cold north wind in winter which also can carry some salt, from the about 3/4 mile wide salt water sound to their north. They had the protection of a wooden fence as a wind break in their early years.

[DoomsDave]

Ryan:

Your profile says you're in "Texas" but not where, which is important.

Reading between the lines a bit, I'm going to assume you're somewhere in the wetter, more populous east, as opposed to dry and vacant Trans-Pecos.

Washy robustas should grow well for you.  They're very adaptable, and they'll make it in places like Florida, so your moisture won't be a problem.

Brahea armata and Washy filifera might be more of a challenge.

You will need a fast-draining soil mix for them.  I would experiment with different ones.  Go to Lowes or Big Orange and pick up a few sacks of different kinds of "cactus mix" potting soil, and see which one works best.

I know you want to do a lot of them, but I'd go slow at first to see how to keep them happy.

They will definitely like it better on the dry side.  I think you'll need to experiment a bit (unless someone else has more specific advice.)  

They like conditions similar to encephalartos cycads.

Here in So-Cal, they grow as effortlessly as can be.  I've raised them in soil mix nearly devoid of any humus, as well as nearly pure humus.

You may have to protect them from too much moisture, if the fast-draining mix doesn't do the trick.  

(Ania is in Texas and has a large B. armata in the ground, and I think it's doing well.  Maybe shoot her an PM and ask her what mix they used?)

I lived in Hugetown and Christy's Corpse back in the late seventies and that high humidity can get wicked, especially in Houston.  

And, when the time comes, please share your experiences with the rest of us?

dave

[David N.TX.]

Ryan, I'm up here in the DFW area and don't have much problem with them. Our water and soil are alkaline and both B. armata and W. filifera do well up here. I've got quite a few B. armatas in containers and don't have much of a problem. Maybe you should look at water quality.

David

[Collectorpalms]

I am in Central/SE Texas 39 inches of rain a year (sometimes 50 or 60). If I was 100 miles to the west, I think I would have an easier time. They do fine after 5 gallon size, and they do grow in the ground here. ( I only seem to have issues with Brahea Armata and Washingtonia Filfera).  I do have some seedling survivors every year and have experimented over different soi mixtures over the years. However, I want to raise hundreds of them, and I do not want to loose more than a few. The water is not so much a problem anymore as I only use rain water or purified water.  I have looked over what Lows and Home Depot Carries. So far I have considered crushed lava rock (I have to crush it myself), coarse perlite, and coarse grain sand. How about Pumice? We do not have that here, does that serve the same purpose and perlite? Why do some people used decomposed granite in certain mixtures? Seems like I should have maybe something organic to the mixture in it though? I like to add pine bark mulch to my acid loving plants, but they are from more alkaline regions.

Thanks,

Ryan

[chris.oz]

The roots on Brahea seem to go to the bottom of the pot and do loops.  You would expect that from a desert palm. There is very little root development in the rest of the pot.

IMO you also need very good drainage at the bottom of the pot,  so ensure it is off the ground or else the worms will turn the soil at the bottom of the pot into muck.

My Brahea armata seedlings are 2-3 leaf and I have already lost 2 out of about 10 at that stage ,  but I suspect they dried out in the hot sun .

[chris.oz]

Just pulled out a dead seedling to have a look at the roots.

This was repotted 6 months ago,  from the original small pot.

You can see the way the roots circled the bottom of the original pot,  then extended down after repotting.

This has caused increased root development in the middle of the new pot,  which is a good thing.

If you leave it in the one pot indefinitely,  all the root development will, be at the bottom of the pot where drainage is poorest.

Not good IMO.   However,  seems you might be correct about the potential crisis time at 2-3 grass leaves !

[palmsrgreat]

Hey Ryan:

I'm here in Houston. While I don't grow commercially, I can tell you drainage is a must for me. I've switched to include very coarse perlite (called Pharok - giant perlite(3/8-1/2"), hard to find, only here at one nursery in Houston), coarse fir bark and pumice to help with flow; along with coarse sand and bed mix ( humus, compost, manure) It has really changed things for me and ended a lot of damping off, esp in Queens.

You are right, the pumice is hard to find. I get it in small quantities through mail order .  Anyone know where to get this stuff?

[David N.TX.]

Ryan and Michael, You guys might want to look at "Living Earth Technology" in Houston for "Lava Sand "and maybe "expanded shale" to add to your mix.  They might have some other elements as well. Living Earth Tech. sells in bulk, both in retail and wholesale.

David

[Tad]

i cant say much for your braheas, but if your damping off washies, somthing is wrong, I grow thousands of filiferass evry year, year in and year out..under full sun, they get the sprinkler system for 30 min. a day somtimes more if it is windy. I use a mix made of peat moss ,pine bark and styrofoam pellets, somtimes perlite. and we never damp off more than 1 or 2 percent at most. my peat comes with a wetting agent mixed in so its not "dry" I would work some fungicide into your program. and braheas seem to just hate moving from pot to pot anyway.

and i use unfiltered river water from the rio grande, lots of nasty stuff in that compared to rain water.

[Kris]

Dear ryan  

i grow my young in terracota pots and when the roots are full i usually tap the pot the earthenware just breaks open and the roots are like a hair ball.and then they are place in huge plastic barrels.i have shown those stills in a thread called palm maintanece.

and a small suggestion is try to use terracota pots than plastic.in most cases damp off does not occur since the pot itself sweets out moisture.unlike plastics which is fully

non porous through the containers wall area.just give it a

try.and use contact based chemical fungicides.

love,

Kris  

[Palmtrader]

I have several thousand around the 30cm stage and have always used a mix containing sand, perlite, and bark chip with a little humus chucked in. Completely free draining.  Mine are placed on palletts outside on a south facing aspect as they do  prefer being exposed to the elements. I do the same with edulis and brandegeei often alongside washies that we produce for the home market. No problems at all, they just romp away.