I've seen numerous photos of Queens that have frozen in north Florida but I saw one for sale and couldn't stop myself from buying one. It's about 10 feet tall and I went ahead and planted it in my backyard. My plan is to wrap Christmas lights around the trunk all winter, to apply freeze protection spray(if that really works), and to wrap the fronds if temps are forecast to go below 20F. I'm just glad it has until at least November to start getting established.

Does this seem to risky or could it possibly work?  This last winter it easily would have survived, we only dropped to 25F for a few hours but I dread the rare but possible 10-15F cold snap.

 

The Christmas lights, and then wrap, could see you through for a while.  Don't waste your money on the spray.

16 minutes ago, Ben in Norcal said:

The Christmas lights, and then wrap, could see you through for a while.  Don't waste your money on the spray.

Yeah I read how the spray supposedly adds up to 9 degrees to the actual temperature but saw pretty bad reviews of it online. I guess I'll just keep wrapping the fronds until they're too high to reach with a ladder. Then maybe I'll use a bucket truck lol.

I too gave in to animal desires when I saw those beautiful, lush green palms at the big box stores (and they're so cheap!). Here's my experience and observation with S. romanzoffiana in 8b.

I've had queens 3 times: first one I got was about the size of yours. I dutifully wrapped it well in a substantial blanket the first winter. The low was about 22 degrees (which is actually not terrible for 8b). To my surprise, it completely fried and was killed.

Other 2 I had were in pots for some time but outgrew them. Planted them in the ground on the south side of the house, and they amazingly survived unprotected the 2012-2013 winter during which it got to around 23 degrees. I wonder if these were from a hardier stock. But then, they were killed in 2014 from 17 degrees and the ice event. (seen in the 2 pictures below)

However, I do remember seeing full sized mature ones out near the beaches and even a few farther away from the water. This must attest to the how harsh the 2014 winter was, since at least some in my neighborhood were probably there since the early 2000's. Interestingly, in 2010 (17 degree freeze), many of the fully mature ones in the area survived enough (of course with terrible defoliation) to come back within a year or two just fine. Although I will say these survivors were closer to bodies of water or in slight microclimates: two in my neighborhood which is farther north took it really hard, one died and the other barely held on, producing weak, stunted growth after.

^^^January 2014: One of the two aforementioned trees in my neighborhood survived for many years in this micro-climate close to the house. Other one used to be on the other side of the front door, but was killed in 2010.

Also, in a neighborhood called Lake Lorraine (in Shalimar, FL), there were a couple mature queens that had evidently survived for a number of years. I speculate this neighborhood is a slight microclimate being closer to the water. I observed the larger of the two having no damage after low 9a freezes. The following pictures were taken in 2008 when I would regularly drive by there. They survived 2010, but died in 2014.

^^^This one was a wonderful specimen, probably the largest in the area, although could never get a good picture of it being in someone's backyard

Edited March 28, 201610 yr by Opal92

It is worth a try! I would have planted it immediately next to your house for a little more protection. If you use heat cables like Walt does on his coconut you should have no trouble keeping it alive. They grow fast which might be a downside in your case so in 5-7 years it will probably be too big to protect.

Also could throw a large plastic sheet over it and put a little energy efficient space heater inside like 750 watts. Mine are probably 30ft tall now and they are only a few years old. So you probably could protect them a couple years until they got too big

I think for the price, why not! They are bullet proof here and planted EVERYWHERE. But hey even if you get a freak cold winter, you'd have enjoyed it for a few years, worst case.

I agree, don't try the spray. I've tried Freeze Pruf (or whatever it's called) and it didn't work. I've tried another product this past winter called CloudCover , the results are inconclusive from that, but will give it one more try on my Robustas next winter. As for queens, I think it's worth a try in your area. I completely ruled out even trying them where I live, even in a microclimate, and put W. Robustas instead. Let us know how It does!

36 minutes ago, smithgn said:

I agree, don't try the spray. I've tried Freeze Pruf (or whatever it's called) and it didn't work. I've tried another product this past winter called CloudCover , the results are inconclusive from that, but will give it one more try on my Robustas next winter. As for queens, I think it's worth a try in your area. I completely ruled out even trying them where I live, even in a microclimate, and put W. Robustas instead. Let us know how It does!

I wish one of these products would work. If they added 10f like they claim I could grow almost anything here lol... I've only read bad stuff about Freeze Pruf, this is the first I've read about CloudCover though. I might give it a try if there is a freeze in the forecast next year, I figure it can't hurt.

9 hours ago, RedRabbit said:

I wish one of these products would work. If they added 10f like they claim I could grow almost anything here lol... I've only read bad stuff about Freeze Pruf, this is the first I've read about CloudCover though. I might give it a try if there is a freeze in the forecast next year, I figure it can't hurt.

I thought FreezPruf and Cloud Cover were the same thing.

25 minutes ago, Ben in Norcal said:

I thought FreezPruf and Cloud Cover were the same thing.

Good question... They're branded differently, but I don't know how the active ingredients compare.

Queens in Montgomery?  Not going to make it long-term.  You should grab a mule palm.  That has a decent chance, especially if you protect it until the trunk thickens up.  I'm not sure they'll survive your coldest winters, but they'll be OK in your average winter.  

Here's a reality link:  https://www.sercc.com/climateinfo/historical/recordlow.html

Your record lows in December, January and February are all lethal to Mule palms.  January looks like it could kill a Butia, and December is close.  So build a palm scape with hardy stuff (S palmetto - and other Sabals-, Butia, Trachycarpus, etc) and enjoy the tender stuff between cold winters.  

6 minutes ago, Keith in SoJax said:

Queens in Montgomery?  Not going to make it long-term.  You should grab a mule palm.  That has a decent chance, especially if you protect it until the trunk thickens up.  I'm not sure they'll survive your coldest winters, but they'll be OK in your average winter.  

Here's a reality link:  https://www.sercc.com/climateinfo/historical/recordlow.html

Your record lows in December, January and February are all lethal to Mule palms.  January looks like it could kill a Butia, and December is close.  So build a palm scape with hardy stuff (S palmetto - and other Sabals-, Butia, Trachycarpus, etc) and enjoy the tender stuff between cold winters.  

Do you think Butia are less hardy than Sabal palmetto? I lived in 8a in South Carolina for a year in High School and Butia odorata and Sabal palmetto seemed like the two most common palms (along with Trachycarpus). It seemed to me that the two were similar in hardiness in that environment. 

22 hours ago, RedRabbit said:

I wish one of these products would work. If they added 10f like they claim I could grow almost anything here lol... I've only read bad stuff about Freeze Pruf, this is the first I've read about CloudCover though. I might give it a try if there is a freeze in the forecast next year, I figure it can't hurt.

Yeah, if it really worked like it claims it does I'd be ordering those products by the truck load; along with every other zone 9 palm lol The whole reason why I bought CloudCover was because I thought it was different from Freezepruf and because it worked... Oh well.

 

4 hours ago, Zeeth said:

Do you think Butia are less hardy than Sabal palmetto? I lived in 8a in South Carolina for a year in High School and Butia odorata and Sabal palmetto seemed like the two most common palms (along with Trachycarpus). It seemed to me that the two were similar in hardiness in that environment. 

You're right. There are some very old Butias around here that I know survived the horrific 80's temperatures. In fact, with all of the landscape companies that install field grown palmettos, I see more dead palmettos than Butias. I don't think I've ever driven past a mature, dead Butia.

Mature Butia transplant amazingly well, much better than a sabal, but to stay on topic growing a queen in Montgomery is like trying to grow one in Dallas; it just isn't going to last.

If you are dead-set on a queen then try the silver variety which is said to be a little hardier although it will probably still be hit hard in true 8b winters.  I have several 9b palms in an 8b but smaller stuff that is easily protected and up against my house.

Those hurricane cut palmettos need to be watered regularly to regenerate the root system as well which could be the cause of seeing some dead.

 

16 hours ago, Zeeth said:

Do you think Butia are less hardy than Sabal palmetto? I lived in 8a in South Carolina for a year in High School and Butia odorata and Sabal palmetto seemed like the two most common palms (along with Trachycarpus). It seemed to me that the two were similar in hardiness in that environment. 

My knee-jerk answer is, yes, I think S palmetto is hardier than Butia odorata, probably by 5 degrees.  

Butia defoliate at considerably higher temps than S. palmetto, but overall hardiness, thats a good question so here's why I think Sabal beats Butia.  In the Charlotte NC area where I lived from Dec 2000 to March 2005, there were more long-term palmettos than Butias.  And there were palmettos that produced viable seed that germinated & produced volunteer trees.  I never saw that with Butia.   

I will also add, the FL transplant palmettos take a long time to recover, especially in climates with short growing seasons.  Further, they thrive best in sandy soils overlaying lime rock.  The red, acid clays are not their natural environment and I think that hurts palmetto transplants, especially if combined with other stresses like drying out, or hard winters.  Butia seems more flexible in regards to soil tolerance, and as someone already said, Butia is easy to transplant whereas palmetto is difficult.  Thus nearly 100% of Butia survive transplanting whereas maybe 30% of S. palmetto survive.  

2 hours ago, Keith in SoJax said:

My knee-jerk answer is, yes, I think S palmetto is hardier than Butia odorata, probably by 5 degrees.  

Butia defoliate at considerably higher temps than S. palmetto, but overall hardiness, thats a good question so here's why I think Sabal beats Butia.  In the Charlotte NC area where I lived from Dec 2000 to March 2005, there were more long-term palmettos than Butias.  And there were palmettos that produced viable seed that germinated & produced volunteer trees.  I never saw that with Butia.   

I will also add, the FL transplant palmettos take a long time to recover, especially in climates with short growing seasons.  Further, they thrive best in sandy soils overlaying lime rock.  The red, acid clays are not their natural environment and I think that hurts palmetto transplants, especially if combined with other stresses like drying out, or hard winters.  Butia seems more flexible in regards to soil tolerance, and as someone already said, Butia is easy to transplant whereas palmetto is difficult.  Thus nearly 100% of Butia survive transplanting whereas maybe 30% of S. palmetto survive.  

You saw volunteer palmetto that far north? That's interesting. I remember never seeing a single volunteer in South Carolina (or any volunteer palm, for that matter). I saw a juvenile Sabal palmetto in someone's garden once, but it was mostly transplanted mature S. palmetto from Florida. Butia, on the other hand, were common to see at all ages. 

1 hour ago, Zeeth said:

You saw volunteer palmetto that far north? That's interesting. I remember never seeing a single volunteer in South Carolina (or any volunteer palm, for that matter). I saw a juvenile Sabal palmetto in someone's garden once, but it was mostly transplanted mature S. palmetto from Florida. Butia, on the other hand, were common to see at all ages. 

Yep, I saw them.  In fact, one of the SP trees in Mt Holly that had volunteers in the woods nearby survived the -5 low in the 1980's.  That tree produces enough viable seed that Plant Delights harvest them, grows seedlings, and then sells them as the "Mt Holly" S palmetto.  

 

I will add, there is a Butia in Raleigh that survived that event too.  And at nearby RDU airport, their official low was -9!  That Butia is in town, but still, it was well below zero F.  

Doesn't stand a chance. The problem with queen's is they grow so fast, it will be too large to protect in no time. Low 20's will defoliate a standard queen fast.

On March 28, 2016 at 5:31:06 PM, Keith in SoJax said:

 Queens in Montgomery?  Not going to make it long-term.  You should grab a mule palm.  That has a decent chance, especially if you protect it until the trunk thickens up.  I'm not sure they'll survive your coldest winters, but they'll be OK in your average winter.  

Here's a reality link:  https://www.sercc.com/climateinfo/historical/recordlow.html

Your record lows in December, January and February are all lethal to Mule palms.  January looks like it could kill a Butia, and December is close.  So build a palm scape with hardy stuff (S palmetto - and other Sabals-, Butia, Trachycarpus, etc) and enjoy the tender stuff between cold winters.  

I've actually got two mule palms, a Butia Odorata, Queen, Cat palm(in a very sheltered and shady place, plus I hear they'll regrow the next summer in a lot of cases if killed by the cold), a Majesty palm(no shot I know but it was looking bad in a pot so I just thought I'd give it a try this summer and maybe with some protection it can survive a couple of winters haha), and finally a Pygmy Date which will stay relatively short even when mature and I keep it in a heated greenhouse all winter.

You're right about those record lows, I dread having temps in the single digits or just below zero but all 20 years that I've lived here I've never seen any thing colder than 11F. The only palms I've seen killed by the cold were W. Robustas when we got to the low teens a couple years ago. Some recovered but some look like 20ft telephone poles now. The Sabal Palmettos didn't have any damage but a couple of Butias out in the open defoliated and quickly came back the following spring. 

Theres no doubt a cold hardy palm landscape is best for Montgomery but I like to be adventurous so I'm going to try as many cold protection methods as possible to get these palms to survive  The Queen being the toughest, simply because of its growth rate. 

 

 

kind of a thread resurrection I know but @nitsua0895 how did it do over the last several years? BTW, I'm in Calera alabama. I have one that is about 10ft or so now. It was 8.5ft when I got it a month ago. They grow extremely quickly.