Accumulating Snowfall below Tropic of Cancer

[bubba]

Tampico, Mexico- 22.29 N.- Feb. 1895

Hong Kong, China-22.15 N.-Jan.1893

Nanning, China-21.29 N.- 1654; near present day coastal city of Baihai, China

 

[Xerarch]

21.29! That's amazing, actually they're all amazing, but that's what you get when you have flat landmass all the way up to Arctic. 

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

10 hours ago, bubba said:

Tampico, Mexico- 22.29 N.- Feb. 1895

Hong Kong, China-22.15 N.-Jan.1893

Nanning, China-21.29 N.- 1654; near present day coastal city of Baihai, China

 

Wow, Keith, that is really shocking!  I knew that Tampico had recorded a freeze many years ago, but I had no idea that it actually snowed there, and the other locations even further south in China is even more shocking continental landmass or not.  With the exception of tall mountains, I would think that in low lying tropical areas it just wouldn't get below about 35F or 36F ever and even that only very rarely, say once in a 300 to 500 year occurrence.  I know that snow flurries have been recoded at the West End of Grand Bahama at least once from what I have heard.  Even though the island is north of the Tropic of Cancer, I would think the warm Gulf Stream would prevent any temps ever below the low 40's and never any frozen precipitation.

John

[palmsOrl]

There is a historical account of snow flurries in Bermuda as well (not in the tropics, but a tropical or nearly tropical climate).  Also, I read an account that suggested snow (not accumulating) somewhere on the north coast of Cuba during an event in the 1800s as well.

[Palmaceae]

9 hours ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Wow, Keith, that is really shocking!  I knew that Tampico had recorded a freeze many years ago, but I had no idea that it actually snowed there, and the other locations even further south in China is even more shocking continental landmass or not.  With the exception of tall mountains, I would think that in low lying tropical areas it just wouldn't get below about 35F or 36F ever and even that only very rarely, say once in a 300 to 500 year occurrence.  I know that snow flurries have been recoded at the West End of Grand Bahama at least once from what I have heard.  Even though the island is north of the Tropic of Cancer, I would think the warm Gulf Stream would prevent any temps ever below the low 40's and never any frozen precipitation.

John

I have been to southern China, Guangzhou which is just north of Hong Kong and Liuzhou which is further west and north of Guangzhou.  Both cities look very tropical but have a huge landmass north of them so I am amazed it looks as tropical as it does.  The do have mountainous areas north of them but nothing huge like our Rockies, etc..... I know Liuzhou has had snow before and has a cool-ish winter, cooler than Central Florida. Below you will see the current weather there;

In Liuzhou I saw Caroyota, Archontophoenix, Livistonia Trachycarpus, Washingtonia, Phoenix, and Chuniophoenix. In Guangzhou I saw a lot of Royals.  But in Shanghai I saw Phoenix, Washingtonia and a lot of Trachycarpus, and Shanghai is much further north but on the China Sea.

 

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

15 hours ago, Palmaceae said:

I have been to southern China, Guangzhou which is just north of Hong Kong and Liuzhou which is further west and north of Guangzhou.  Both cities look very tropical but have a huge landmass north of them so I am amazed it looks as tropical as it does.  The do have mountainous areas north of them but nothing huge like our Rockies, etc..... I know Liuzhou has had snow before and has a cool-ish winter, cooler than Central Florida. Below you will see the current weather there;

In Liuzhou I saw Caroyota, Archontophoenix, Livistonia Trachycarpus, Washingtonia, Phoenix, and Chuniophoenix. In Guangzhou I saw a lot of Royals.  But in Shanghai I saw Phoenix, Washingtonia and a lot of Trachycarpus, and Shanghai is much further north but on the China Sea.

 

Wow, Randy look at those temps for later this week there!  That is really chilly for an area just barely north of the Tropic of Cancer, and in the middle of Feb.!  I realize that it is a continental landmass, but even so, I would think that even the worst Arctic fronts by the time they get that far south would not drop temps below about 34F, and certainly never freeze.  I am still shocked that Tampico, Mexico, slightly SOUTH of the Tropic of Cancer and a coastal city at that had a light freeze many years ago.  I would think that a coastal tropical city would NEVER drop below about 39F or 40F at the coldest.  I noticed you didn't mention any Coconut Palms.  I have heard from someone on here (it might have been Keith in Palmetto, FL) that there is a pretty cold hardy variety of Coconut Palm from China that rivals the cold hardiness of the Indian Tall from north Central India (which I thought was the most cold hardy variety in the world). Here, where I live at about 27.68 N Latitude, we are going to be much milder than that at the same time, and yet they are at about 24 N Latitude.

John

[Palmaceae]

Hello John,

I did not see any coconuts on my 2 trips to China, I am sure they were there somewhere, certainly not in Liuzhou but probably in Guangzhou, but did not have much time in Guangzhou to look.  Most of my time was in Liuzhou and that is where I saw most of the palms. No coconuts to be seen as I do not think they would survive there.

[Palmaceae]

John,

Here are a few pictures I took in Liuzhou. Very tropical looking, and the summers are very humid like South Florida. Liuzhou is at 24 degrees N latitude.

 

[Eric in Orlando]

Here is the entry for Cocos nucifera in "Flora of China"

 

http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200027077

 

1. Cocos nucifera Linnaeus, Sp. Pl. 2: 1188. 1753.

椰子 ye zi

 

 

 

Cocos indica Royle; C. nana Griffith.

Stems to 20 m tall, 30 cm or more in diam. Pinnae to 100 per side of rachis, regularly arranged and stiffly spreading in same plane. Inflorescences borne among leaves. Fruits greenish to reddish brown, ovoid to irregularly globose, to 30 × 20 cm.

 

 

 

Commonly planted at low elevations, occasionally to 1000 m. Guangdong, Hainan (especially common), Taiwan, Yunnan [coastal areas throughout the tropics].

The coconut is an important commercial crop, producing coconut oil, coir, and toddy. Coconut oil is obtained from the dried endosperm (known as copra) and has been used in the manufacture of soap and margarine. Coir is obtained from the fibrous mesocarp and is used to weave mats and rugs. Toddy is sugar-containing sap, which is tapped from unopened inflorescences and often fermented into an alcoholic drink. Apart from these major uses, the coconut has a host of minor uses, especially as an ornamental plant. In Hainan, coconut milk from unripe fruits is sold both fresh and tinned.

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

I could see coconuts surviving on the south end of Taiwan, but not in Taipei city.  I have been there during a few winters and it was always cool, damp and gloomy

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

16 hours ago, Palmaceae said:

John,

Here are a few pictures I took in Liuzhou. Very tropical looking, and the summers are very humid like South Florida. Liuzhou is at 24 degrees N latitude.

 

Wow!  Thanks, Randy.  Those are beautiful palms.  Look at the size of those Caryotas!  Are the ones in the last photo Archontophoenixes?  If so, they are HUGE!

John

[Palmaceae]

7 hours ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Wow!  Thanks, Randy.  Those are beautiful palms.  Look at the size of those Caryotas!  Are the ones in the last photo Archontophoenixes?  If so, they are HUGE!

John

John,

Yes they are Archontophoenix alexandrae and they had a lot of them!

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

5 hours ago, Palmaceae said:

John,

Yes they are Archontophoenix alexandrae and they had a lot of them!

 

5 hours ago, Palmaceae said:

John,

Yes they are Archontophoenix alexandrae and they had a lot of them!

They are beautiful.  I have one outside the kitchen window, but I doubt it will even get 1/3 that size.  It is 6ft. tall right now, with a little bit of woody swollen trunk at the base.  I have seen some around here that are about 12 to 15ft. tall, so I figure that's about as big as mine will get.  If I can keep it watered more, then maybe I could get it to grow a little more.

[DeletedAccount14e83d09a24f]

They grow on some parts on southernmost Taiwan, as they grow on Okinawa Japanese Islands. But Taiwan it's not China so it doesn't count at all 

Yes they grow on China. The climate of the southernmost coast of China (near the border of Taiwan) and the climate of Hainan Island are completely Tropical. Haikou is located in the northernmost part of Hainan island (20ºN) :

 

While Sanya is located on the southernmost part of the island (18ºN) :

January high averages for Haikou are 21.0ºC (69,8F) and in Sanya are 26.1ºC (78,98F), while minimums are 15.4ºC (59,72F) in Haikou and 18.5ºC (65,3F) in Sanya. May is the warmest month, with 32.0ºC (89,6ºF) maximums and 25.6ºC (78,08F) minimums in Sanya, while July is the hottest in Haikou, with 33.1ºC (91,58F) maximums and 25.5ºC (77,9F) minimums. Sanya's climate is about the same as Honolulu's climate. 25.4ºC (77,72F) is the annual average for Honolulu and 25.8ºC (78,44F) it's for Sanya. 

PS: Do you think Haikou is quite cold for being in this latitude?... For example Santa Cruz de Tenerife is located at 28º30'N and it averages exactly the same temperatures for January. And December is slightly warmer than Haikou for example. I've also seen that the predictions for Haikou for the Monday is rain with a maximum of 14ºC (57,2F) and a minimum of 11ºC (51,8F) and for the Tuesday the maximum is 15ºC (59F) and the minimum 12ºC (53,6F). The lowest recorded was 2.8ºC (37,04F). This is something quite amazing for this latitude... right? 

[DeletedAccount14e83d09a24f]

But those aren't the norhernmost ones. The northernmost place in China that I've seen growing Cocos Nucifera is Beihai (21º28'N):

 

But they look a bit more healthy in Zhanjiang (21º12'N), which is a bit souther than Beihai:

The averages in January and February put this climate slightly below the Tropical climate, but Zhanjiang

 

Edited February 12, 2016 by pRoeZa*