phoenix canariensis in typical temperate climate

[brattle_007]

I have Phoenix Canariensis which I've germinated from seed. Its only grown about 4 foot in 7 year. Noticed if exposed to freeze of about -3C  it easily damages the fronds. I thought it would be more hardier then that in temperate maritime climate!

[nitsua0895]

12 minutes ago, brattle_007 said:

I have Phoenix Canariensis which I've germinated from seed. Its only grown about 4 foot in 7 year. Noticed if exposed to freeze of about -3C  it easily damages the fronds. I thought it would be more hardier then that in temperate maritime climate!

Is Newcastle upon Tyne in the north of England? I think Phoenix Canariensis can withstand -3C easily when it's dry but I know palms can't stand wet and freezing weather.

[brattle_007]

Yes, Newcastle upon Tyne is in Northern England, how large would a 7 year old P.C. be in a subtropcal climate? a typical Temperate climate has only 7 months or less of average temp of over 10C, but more then 3 months. Newcastle has 5 months, and growth is very slow.

Edited January 17, 2016 by brattle_007

[nitsua0895]

I live in a subtropical climate just 175 miles north of Florida but I can't grow Phoenix Canariensis. From March-Novemver we have a great climate to grow them but every few years we get cold fronts during the winter that can cause temperatures to plummet as low as -12C. 

But I've heard they can grow up to 1 foot every year once they have a trunk. So for yours to have grown 4 feet in a temperate climate in 7 years is pretty fast in my opinion.

[brattle_007]

As a seedling it was grown in a greenhouse in my back yard for a growth boost. Newcastle is in zone 8b min temp is -12.4 that is rear. we do get prolonged freeze of -5 to -7 in more frequent winters. This type of palm cannot grow here without allot of help.  

Edited January 18, 2016 by brattle_007

[Pip]

Are you talking about leaf size? In my dry climate they take about 10 years to form a trunk then speed upwards if irrigated or near a water source. CIDP have naturalised in my area.

[knell]

Canary palms are big but slow, the huge ones in Cali were planted 100 years ago.

More important is crown and trunk diameter, as long as the leaves are getting huge and the trunk is starting to thicken youre on the right track. The 25ft tree in my old yard in one of the absolute best climates for them is just over 20 years old.

[Matthew92]

Very difficult if not worth it in zone 8 unless it's a microclimate or has protection. The healthiest of specimens in my area still have not recovered a full canopy from the back to back winters with upper teens in 2014 and 2015. Dactylifera is much better. Still damaged, but good enough to probably be considered satisfactory in 8b at least.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Opal92

[Matthew92]

Also, I perceive that many palms labeled "P. canariensis" at the big box stores are not 100% purebred. Ancestry is probably mixed from tree to tree such that our comparing of notes for cold damage varies and conflicts. Wonder how a seed taken directly from one in the Canary Islands would compare? Although of course I'm sure there is also some variation within the "purebred" species.

And then I guess if anything, a "canary" of mixed ancestry with some dactylifera in it would be more cold hardy?

There is actually one CIDP in my area that looks as close as I've seen to pictures of ones in natural habitat. Interestingly, it seems to be ever so slightly more tender to the cold than other "CIDP" in the area, but at the same time, more robust and grows out of it a little faster.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Opal92

[NorCalKing]

Here in my area 9B, these can be seen 50ft+ not sure the age, but I know they are bullet proof here.

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

Low 9a seems to be the limit to have a thick trunked, great looking specimen in texas. I know of three in our area, two are cold 8b with a favorable microclimate and the other is warm 8a out in the open.  The first two are developing a 3-4" wide trunk but burn 75% if their fronds half of the winters.  The one out in the open is very stunted, but somehow is still alive. All have been around for at least 6 years that I know of and survived the 2011 and 2013 winters.  Note that we get atrocious ice storms and some snow every few years which tend to damage palms more than our actual temperature. It wouldn't surprise me at all if cidp would grow in a desert southwest 8b.

[nitsua0895]

17 hours ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

Low 9a seems to be the limit to have a thick trunked, great looking specimen in texas. I know of three in our area, two are cold 8b with a favorable microclimate and the other is warm 8a out in the open.  The first two are developing a 3-4" wide trunk but burn 75% if their fronds half of the winters.  The one out in the open is very stunted, but somehow is still alive. All have been around for at least 6 years that I know of and survived the 2011 and 2013 winters.  Note that we get atrocious ice storms and some snow every few years which tend to damage palms more than our actual temperature. It wouldn't surprise me at all if cidp would grow in a desert southwest 8b.

How do you think a CIDP would do in borderline zone 8a/8b in an area of Alabama that only sees very light snow and ice once every few years? The coldest weather I've seen here is between 13F but I can't remember a day with a high below freezing.

[NorCalKing]

I think it would survive, but it may defoliate some years. From everything I've read they survive down to 20f. Here in California they grow like weeds and are many growing in the wild in overgrown woods/creek beds. They're considered invasive in southern California 

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

If snow and ice are rare then a cidp will be ok @15f. I think they are hardier than true date in our area because of the growth rate and availability to quickly reginerate a canopy. I had a large medjool with 7' CT and decided to sell it after 2013 because I was tired of wrapping it after it defoliated several winters in a row. The canopy never would recover for me because of our winters.

[Ivorhooper]

On 17/01/2016, 23:02:18, brattle_007 said:

I have Phoenix Canariensis which I've germinated from seed. Its only grown about 4 foot in 7 year. Noticed if exposed to freeze of about -3C  it easily damages the fronds. I thought it would be more hardier then that in temperate maritime climate!

Hey, I'm not far from you in York. I have a cidp outside under the eves of the house in a 20litre pot. Grew very fast during the summer. Will try planting out in the spring.

No problem with the winter so far. Only got to -3 though I think. It's about 5 feet in the pot.

Plenty at all the garden centres if it dies!