2 hours ago, Josh-O said:

I think the fan has been the saving grace in this situation. Frost wont form on the fronds if there is sufficient air movement. That's why citrus farmers have frost fans in the fields in the central valley for this very reason. In most cases a fan can actually warm things up a bit as well as keeping the frost from forming. 

I think you are probably right.  I am planning to buy a couple more fans to use in the future. 

2 hours ago, Josh-O said:

your ficus D. looks real nice BTY!

I'm looking for one. Any idea where I can pick one up?

Thanks Josh!

I got mine from Matty B.  It isn't big enough just yet to air layer.  I may try air layering this summer and see what happens.

I have mine planted in a raised bed with very well draining soil and topped with composted mulch.  I water the crap out of it in summer.  

It is next to a brick wall.  The wall provides shade for the lower part of the plant which helps it grow upright.  The top is in sun which really helps those leaves get the crinkled look.

2 hours ago, Josh-O said:

your ficus D. looks real nice BTY!

I'm looking for one. Any idea where I can pick one up?

Have you tried Triode's Unlocked Secret Nursery®? Interestingly its location has evaded Google maps™.

Recap of the chain of events;  two nights at 40-42f which produced splotching ...then a night or two I can't recall but nothing that raised a red flag... then two nights of 40f but a real feel of 38f at least according to the weather report.    After the first couple nights, I saw slight browning on my leptocheilos, wallichia disticha & cyphophoenix elegans but I am unsure whether this is sun scorch from a newly planted out greenhouse plant or from the chill.   Then one morning the frost appeared and the second night was about as cold but no frost the next morning...   These pics are from today...

frond on a 15g planted out leptocheilos

largest opened frond on the lepto, notice some browning spots along the unopened frond

cyphophoenix elegans 

the largest frond was washed out from planting out from a deep shade house grown plant but the other fronds got brown from the latest nights..

 

lanceolata in a corner of the house where the breeze or wind is able to whip around the house...I suspect this is what caused the frying as the only small leptocheilos affected where the ones not sheltered by the house..

lanceolata number two with just a little more shelter from the house but in the same corner

leptocheilos in the same eastern corner

wallichia disticha along the eastern hedge resulted in smaller brown splotching after the first two cool nights, the those same spots progressed after the second two cold nights...overall not bad, IMHO.

allogoptera arenaria had some browning even before any cold evening which makes me thing it's just sun scorched...the browning progressed with the latest two evenings with the cold...I'm not concerned.

this is where I placed the plants preemptively the day before the frost under the eaves of the house in the most wind sheltered location

 

Edited January 2, 201610 yr by OverGrown

combination of sun scorch and cold nights on the chamaedorea woodsonia gigante's younger fronds...the largest fronds only have about 15% browning

pseudophoenix sargentii in the same eastern corner as the lanceolata's and leptocheilos'   the other pseudophoenix sargentii i have on the western corner of the house which has better wind buffering looks fine.

my bananas which also double as cover for the 15g leptocheilos

So the same day I woke up to the frost,  I went proactive in trying to protect the remaining potted plants through the rest of the winter...I picked up this temporary greenhouse from harbor freight for around $86 with the 20% coupon and tried to assemble it that same night in the cold...As a result, I ended up catching a nasty cough but was able to get this up today...I was optimistic in planting out in late fall to acclimate the fronds based on the further distance of the sun from the earth during this time of year, which works for faster palms, but it seems I will have to implement a more gradual acclimation program for slower species.  Funny thing is, I know this from being on palm talk since 2009 and through learning from other peoples experience via the Palm Society, but I'm inherently impatient and tried to push the issue anyway... For the time being this is my temporary cold frame...light enough to move when I need to demo this area after the El Nino rains.

 

Smart move! The palms in the ground have their roots much warmer then the ones in your containers.

All of that looks/sounds like sunburn to me, vs. cold damage.

Yup, agree with Ben.

28 minutes ago, Ben in Norcal said:

All of that looks/sounds like sunburn to me, vs. cold damage.

Come on Ben and Matt, you don't think Peter knows what his palms looked like before and after the frost ? He is not exactly a neophyte.

Just now, Moose said:

Come on Ben and Matt, you don't think Peter knows what his palms looked like before and after the frost ? He is not exactly a neophyte.

I just can't imagine those temps causing that much damage.  And, the size of those plants, and the season we are in, suggest sun damage to me.  So maybe I am the neophyte but I would have definitely assumed sun damage myself.  My $.02 - feel free to leave it rather than take it!

If it's cold damage there will be more showing up over the next couple weeks, unfortunately...

Last night was at least the third consecutive night here in the mid 30s in the coldest spot in my garden. Thankfully there was no frost this morning. 

It heats up so fast here and is so dry in certain parts that sunburn is a problem even in the dead of winter. So we'll see. I'll keep a close watch to see if some cold damage develops. 

I too, am inclined to think it is sunburn exacerbated by the cold...not a singular issue but a combination of factors...  the 15g lepto and allogoptera were grown in san marcos sun which threw me off and the other 4 lepto's shielded from by the house from open air breeze are unaffected... we'll see what pulls through...

This yard is in Fullerton, Ca (Rolling Hills / Coyote Hills area)on the north side of a hill, ~168ft elevation.. front of the house faces southwest.. property gets all day sun exposure except the area (15-20ft) closest to the rear of the house during this time of year. 

Edited January 2, 201610 yr by OverGrown

On December 30, 2015 9:45:11 PM, nachocarl said:

Woah, that looks like you lower than 38F, usually 36F seems to be the crap spot ^TM for when frost forms.  I know it can form at higher temp but from what I have seen over the years 36F with a clear night and no wind equals frost.

In my experience and observations...I have seen ice form from chilling winds even if the air temp is around 36f  so seeing frost form even though the weather report claimed 40f is not far off.

Ouch!

Don't give up on your palms.

Keep us apprized!

 

On December 30, 2015 10:03:52 PM, Small palm said:

I feel you, there have been many cold nights with frost here in the Bay Area lately. I'm paranoid every time I feel how cold it is. I got some spotting on a couple of my palms recently, but nothing too bad.

Good luck with your palms.

Thanks, the sounds like you'll be ok.  We had a warm fall here in SoCal so there was no reason not to plant and with the predicted El Nino winter implying warmer overall temps and rain I wasn't concerned... The experimentation is planting out into fall/winter sun, shade grown and greenhouse grown plants.

On December 30, 2015 10:22:09 PM, Hammer said:

I think you may be right.  As soon as I see lows forecast for 37 to 38, I get nervous.  In my yard, due to some local topography, I start to see frost at about 37°f. But sometimes I get all the way down to 32° and manage to dodge the bullet.  Wind and humidity I am sure are big factors.

   

On December 31, 2015 12:01:59 AM, SHEP said:

Today it was light misty rain, now it is predicted to drop below 32f when the cloud cover moves away.  I started drying out my palm covers from the wet, tonight heard the cold forecast again.  I can handle it, at least it is not down below 25f, just busy, putting some things back out after the 11pm news. 

hope things went well!

On December 31, 2015 12:25:26 AM, Moose said:

Call that the Gloom of Doom™ for your Latania palms. 

you made me nervous so into the cold frame they went!

On January 1, 2016 6:28:50 AM, Sandy Loam said:

Overgrown, that is scary frost at your place. Here, most people think of Los Angeles as being summer-like all winter long. I guess not --- or perhaps you are east of the mountains where it gets colder in the desert?

I'm 11 miles straight line to the ocean @ 168ft elevation...Fullerton, Ca specifically so far south of the San Bernandino mountain range.

On January 1, 2016 7:57:14 AM, Matt in OC said:

More frost here, down to 35 this morning. Apparently I live in the coldest pocket of west Orange County! Happy new year!

That's crazy considering how close you are to the ocean but I guess that doesn't have bearing...So far, I've only had one night of it.

On January 1, 2016 8:25:03 AM, Ben in Norcal said:

I got down to 36 briefly last night, but 38 was my low this morning.  Lots of 20s in the Bay Area so I am happy!

dodging bullets! 

On January 1, 2016 9:40:49 AM, Josh-O said:

My "Up and coming Vista garden" hit 38.7 I dodged a bullet their. That garden in defiantly in a cold sink.  The saving grace is that it has very good air drainage, 405' in elevation and south facing. Still stressful to say the least

My carlsbad garden has been in the low to mid 40's all year for the low. never a stressful night here  

Flowering trees will love your Vista garden!  

On January 1, 2016 12:56:00 PM, Hammer said:

To battle the frost, I rigged up a homemade contraption.   It consists of cardboard and shade cloth to provide "canopy" from airflow down the hill that abuts the garden. 

In addition I filled a large tub of water and added two fish tank heaters.  The theory being just enough heat and humidity would be trapped under my make shift canopy.

I also added a fan to circulate air too.  Not sure which component worked best, but since adding these precautions to this corner of the yard, I have had no frost on palms and other tender plants in the area.

Have had frost on the lawn as previously happened.  So, my "duct tape and bailing wire" solution seems to have worked.

I thought about lighting about 10 tiki torches throughout the garden and letting them burn all night but decided against it thinking it'd be a wash. 

18 minutes ago, OverGrown said:

Flowering trees will love your Vista garden!  

absolutly, I'm planting a ton of Acacia Deabata, Rainbow eucalyptus, ETC

On 1/1/2016, 6:28:50, Sandy Loam said:

Overgrown, that is scary frost at your place. Here, most people think of Los Angeles as being summer-like all winter long. I guess not --- or perhaps you are east of the mountains where it gets colder in the desert?

 

 

On 12/31/2015, 3:59:55, Josh-O said:

have you even got down to 32 yet at the "Death camp"?

So far my lowest temp at my carlsbad garden was 38 for only on night and the next lowest was 40 this year.

The Vista garden is another story

Lots of microclimates here in Southern California which are in very close proximity.  I lived in SW Carlsbad, 1km east of the Beach for 26 years and had an all time low of 32 in those two homes/gardens.  I am now about 3 miles south in Leucadia, 300 yard east of the ocean and am hitting lows in high 30's, but no frost.  Same distance from the beach but getting more cold flow down a lagoon river valley just half a mile away I have seen frost on rooftops.  It's all about drainage and flows from the colder inland valleys.  Josh clearly has one of the more ideal Carlsbad climates, and Southern California climates as that goes.

16 hours ago, Moose said:

Smart move! The palms in the ground have their roots much warmer then the ones in your containers.

thanks, I really wanted to avoid the ideal acclimation program of greenhouse to shade house to planted but it is inevitable... i went and bought parts to build out a shade house today.

Edited January 3, 201610 yr by OverGrown

10 hours ago, Pete in Paradise Hills said:

If it's cold damage there will be more showing up over the next couple weeks, unfortunately...

there was a side of me that wanted to see what would make it in my particular microclimate...this will be interesting to see... expensive but interesting...I was once in Vegas and doubled down just for kicks...in that case it was only money...but these are my precious rare palms!!

Latania's are toast. Damage progressed or I should say set in over the past several weeks. 

Edited February 13, 201610 yr by OverGrown

4 hours ago, OverGrown said:

Latania's are toast. Damage progressed or I should say set in over the past several weeks. 

Any pics? Mine got beat up a bit too. I'm not sure if the cold weather damaged them or I let their soil get too dry in full sun. I guess it could be both.

1 hour ago, Danilopez89 said:

Any pics? Mine got beat up a bit too. I'm not sure if the cold weather damaged them or I let their soil get too dry in full sun. I guess it could be both.

It seems that this palm can be fussy? I lost 2 nice 5 gals this winter and they didn't even see freezing temps. they were watered only once per week and a drip system and I allowed the soil  to dry out between watering. maybe they would have done better in the ground out of the pot? 

6 hours ago, OverGrown said:

Latania's are toast. Damage progressed or I should say set in over the past several weeks. 

how cold did you get at you place?

Wow! Brrrr...