Livistona Sp Black Teeth/Thorns

[NESH]

Hello Palmtalkers,

No black stem here, just black teeth.  :)  Below is a palm I wanted to share with everyone and possibly get help to put an ID on it. I have not paid this palm much attention the last few years however I was recently working in this area of the yard and was intrigued by what it had grown into including the black teeth/thorns.  Enjoy the pictures if you have any ideas what it may be or any other feedback it is appreciated.

Petiole with "black" teeth/thorns

Look into the crown

Overall trunk

Shot from above, fronds are quite shiny

NESH

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

Maybe drudei?  Leaves don't look like the ones I have, though.

[John Case]

australis?

[Josh-O]

looks very decora to me...

[_Keith]

Well, the bees are enablers in their promiscuity, just like Phoenix, so you might just have a Heinz 57.

[Josh-O]

20 minutes ago, _Keith said:

Well, the bees are enablers in their promiscuity, just like Phoenix, so you might just have a Heinz 57.

[Pando]

22 minutes ago, _Keith said:

Well, the bees are enablers in their promiscuity, just like Phoenix, so you might just have a Heinz 57.

Ok, well, I had to look that one up....   

Looks like you have more growth rings.

[richtrav]

When I first saw it I thought of L. nitida, but I'm having second thoughts.

[Phoenikakias]

 It's imo australis. Spines on older leaves get shiny black. This is spine pattern on mine. Besides leaflet tips do not droop (like on nitida) and petioles have this distinctive yellow stripe along their back side.

[Ben in Norcal]

I vote australis as well.

[NESH]

Thanks for the feedback everyone.  I am leaning towards nitilda but i suppose it can be anything including a cross.  Here are a few more shots.  I have what I beleive is decora growing next to it.  Sorry for the poor quality cell phone pics.

Livistona Sp Black Teeth left and Livistona decora right

Livistona "black teeth"

Livistona decora

[DoomsDave]

Jawad:

Yours looks a lot like one of mine in the back of the back 40.

I've been told that mine is "Carnavon Gorge" (L. nitida) but the pics I've seen of "Nitties" don't have the black spines.

Have to flee the Dark Tower and look . . . .

 

[DoomsDave]

Looking again, I agree with Konstantin and say taht your palm appears to be an Australis. That wavy leaf, plus the spines is the big giveaway.

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

Here is a pair of pix of one of my L nitida raised from seed purchased from RPS back in 2011.  It has the black spines.

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

Here are a pair of pix of another from the same batch. This is the best specimen I have.  I haven't found this species to be all that fast growing here.  

 

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

Here is L. australis, purchased from a professional.  Its a bit larger than the nitida.  But I think they look quite similar.

 

[Phoenikakias]

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

Here's L decora approximately the same size as the L. nitida.  And yes, the australis bit my finger.  

 

[DoomsDave]

Kieth, yours looks like mine. Maybe mine's a NItty after all.

Jawad, notice how relatively flat Keith's palm's leaf is compared to yours.

They're all tough. Kill them, and the Coroner will see you. (Unless you forget to water them. )

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

I need to look at the back of the petiole on my australis.  I wonder if it has the yellow stripe.  I've found the entire genus to be water loving, though I've never tried any from the dry, NW Australia outback.  None of them do well on the dry half of our property.  Before I lived in a climate with mild enough winters, I thought they were from dry areas.  But their native environments are often similar to Washingtonia so they grow with their feet in the water and their head in sun.  

Edit:  Many seem to be from environments similar to Washingtonia.  I remember seeing L australis as an understory plant...and I've never seen a Washie in situ growing in an understory.  

[Pal Meir]

For comparison two L. nitida in habitat (Carnarvon Gorge), the seedling already showing his teeth:

[NESH]

Great shots Keith in SoJax...Its does look alot like your L. australis.

 

And yes DoomsDave, I now can see the difference in Keiths nitida

[Moose]

16 hours ago, Josh-O said:

looks very decora to me...

L. decora don't have such large toofies. Also the petiole bases don't have that much coloration. This based on the observations on my palm. That does not account for variations.

Do Livistona hybridize?

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

2 hours ago, Pal Meir said:

For comparison two L. nitida in habitat (Carnarvon Gorge), the seedling already showing his teeth:

I want to do a Livistona tour of Australia...nevermind thats a different thread.

Anyway, my little nitidas looked just like that one in situ when they were that size.  Stout little dudes.  So, I'm glad to have more confirmation that I have the species I wanted.  By the time I acquired the australis, it was past the stout little dude stage.  This genus is fun for those of us that have a little frost each winter.  

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

2 hours ago, NESH said:

Great shots Keith in SoJax...Its does look alot like your L. australis.

 

And yes DoomsDave, I now can see the difference in Keiths nitida

Nesh, I'll see if I can get a better shot of the lower side of the petiole.  For some reason, I really thought the leaf segments were wider on australis than they are on mine.  

I have Dowe's book on the Palms of Australia on my desk.  I'll see if I can key it out.  Honestly, I'm not much of a botanist, but there aren't that many choices!