Is it Phoenix dactylifera?

[Phoenikakias]

Before answering, watch carefully please trunk details and infructescences. Those are really the best pictures I could shoot with the camera of my celular phone from some distance, since the palm grows in a fenced private property. 

[Phoenikakias]

[Phoenikakias]

Edited October 4, 2015 by Phoenikakias

[Harry]

Why wouldn’t it be a P. Dactylifera?

I think it is. 

Natural variation.

[Phoenikakias]

I have never before come across such a date palm variety, IF it is a genuine date palm. Trunk  and fruitstalks are very, very different form I what I have seen around regarding various  dactylifera forms here!

[gilles06]

did you taste the dates?

[Phoenikakias]

No, the palm grows in a fenced private garden. I knocked the door but nobody replied, so I had to climb a wall to take some pictures from the possible nearest,  accessible spot. All fruits seem with naked eye two small to be real dates, notwithstanding thw diamond shaped leaf bases... I took pictures from various dacty trees here and neither the trunk nor the infructescence bears the least similarity with this one. Here are some examples: 

Case 1

[Phoenikakias]

Case 2

[Phoenikakias]

Case 3

Edited October 5, 2015 by Phoenikakias
picture addition

[Phoenikakias]

Three different varieties, all have a lot in common and all three are soooooo different from the one in the beginning of this topic!

 

Edited October 5, 2015 by Phoenikakias
better appearance

[Pal Meir]

It’s a Butiophoenix athenensis 

[Trava]

The last one is very nice,have you a photo of whole palm?

[SouthSeaNate]

It does look like a P. dactylifera to me, I have noticed many different looking ones here, though it could of course be a hybrid as Phoenix are the sluts of the palm world

[Pal Meir]

It does look like a P. dactylifera to me, I have noticed many different looking ones here, though it could of course be a hybrid as Phoenix are the sluts of the palm world

That’s it! It is an inter-generic hybrid between Phoenix dactylifera and Vitis vinifera var. rubra, resulting in a new Phoenix vinifera!

[Danilopez89]

Looks like it could have a tiny bit of CIDP in it. Reminds me of some small palms I see at work at a house that has many mature CIDP that produce lots of hybrids around the property. 

[Phoenikakias]

The last one is very nice,have you a photo of whole palm?

[Phoenikakias]

The last one is very nice,have you a photo of whole palm?

[Phoenikakias]

It’s a Butiophoenix athenensis 

It does look like a P. dactylifera to me, I have noticed many different looking ones here, though it could of course be a hybrid as Phoenix are the sluts of the palm world

That’s it! It is an inter-generic hybrid between Phoenix dactylifera and Vitis vinifera var. rubra, resulting in a new Phoenix vinifera!

Pal, you do not need having such a strong imagination. It suffices moreover when assumptions are restricted within the genus! Are those bunches not reminiscent of other east asian Phoenix spss such as rupicola and roebelenii (let aside of course color)?

[Phoenikakias]

Looks like it could have a tiny bit of CIDP in it. Reminds me of some small palms I see at work at a house that has many mature CIDP that produce lots of hybrids around the property. 

 

Looks like it could have a tiny bit of CIDP in it. Reminds me of some small palms I see at work at a house that has many mature CIDP that produce lots of hybrids around the property. 

Dani, you may be on to something here! All of us who have the chance to observe year-round various Phoenix specimens blooming and fruiting, I bet that we share the same impression that fruits on those bunches are pollinated in their majority. Until however I check some fruits myself it remains only an assumption. Normally here blooming seasons of CIDP and dacty do not overlap at all. Besides female dactys due to their sparsity rarely produce any ,if not at all, naturally pollinated dates, because it is a very rare occasion that specimens of both sexes grow at pollination proximity, while the much more common CIDP's can not help to this purpose for the aforementioned reason. In the particular case there is not a single male dacty growing in visible distance, but there is a male blooming CIDP nearby

Edited October 6, 2015 by Phoenikakias

[Danilopez89]

Ill snap some pics when I'm at that property again. Bunch of mature CIDP and hybrid babies around the property. Before I would see these small palms and I assumed that they were full CIDP but after seeing them for so long and finding out about how phoenix palms are total whores I started noticing the difference in them. 

[Sandy Loam]

I probably should refrain from commenting because I don't know anything about this topic, but here are my comments anyway:

• the trunk rings are slightly reminiscent of a Canary Island Date Palm (usually a Phoenix Dactylifera has bumpy, rounded knobs as fallen leaf bases, whereas CIDP has a flatter surface on the places where leaf bases have fallen).  The trunk in the photo has flat leaf bases like a CIDP, although I could be mistaken.
• the shape of the fronds is not quite phoenix dactylifera, to my eye.  The leaves have the colour of Dactylifera and have a Dactylifera sparsity between each spine, but the spines themselves shoot off in both a horizontal direction and a perpendicular direction like a Phoenix Sylvestris.  I could be mistaken, but I thought the spines on Dactylifera fronds were generally flat (all lying in a horizontal pattern, more like a CIDP).   
• The curvature of the fronds is very pronounced, rounded and arching.  Often I see Phoenix Dactilifera with fronds that look more rigid than the fronds in the photo, but this is a minor detail.  In any case, the curvature of the fronds reminds me slightly of Phoenix Sylvestris  
• this is in addition to any differences that you have already pointed out

[Laaz]

Looks like a hybrid. Phoenix dactylifera normally have a bluer coloring to their leaves & orange fruit, not red.

[Phoenikakias]

I probably should refrain from commenting because I don't know anything about this topic, but here are my comments anyway:

• the trunk rings are slightly reminiscent of a Canary Island Date Palm (usually a Phoenix Dactylifera has bumpy, rounded knobs as fallen leaf bases, whereas CIDP has a flatter surface on the places where leaf bases have fallen).  The trunk in the photo has flat leaf bases like a CIDP, although I could be mistaken.
• the shape of the fronds is not quite phoenix dactylifera, to my eye.  The leaves have the colour of Dactylifera and have a Dactylifera sparsity between each spine, but the spines themselves shoot off in both a horizontal direction and a perpendicular direction like a Phoenix Sylvestris.  I could be mistaken, but I thought the spines on Dactylifera fronds were generally flat (all lying in a horizontal pattern, more like a CIDP).   
• The curvature of the fronds is very pronounced, rounded and arching.  Often I see Phoenix Dactilifera with fronds that look more rigid than the fronds in the photo, but this is a minor detail.  In any case, the curvature of the fronds reminds me slightly of Phoenix Sylvestris  
• this is in addition to any differences that you have already pointed out

Agree in every said word! Here's a classic dacty boot pattern:

[Kris]

No, the palm grows in a fenced private garden. I knocked the door but nobody replied, so I had to climb a wall to take some pictures from the possible nearest,  accessible spot. All fruits seem with naked eye two small to be real dates, notwithstanding thw diamond shaped leaf bases... I took pictures from various dacty trees here and neither the trunk nor the infructescence bears the least similarity with this one. Here are some examples: 

Case 1

This looks like a result of a cross between date palm x Cidp,(CIDP Red Fruticas) search old threads in our forum,there are lots of photos from our European friends. But it looks like a 3 way cross with Rupi. Because the trunk size is very thin which is abnormal for a regular date palm or CIDP ! or its just mutation of some kind.