Come on Houston, You Can do Better Than This.

[Xerarch]

I'm waiting here at the airport in Houston (George Bush Intercontinental), I flew in early this morning from Argentina. I'm looking for palms out the windows and from the train and I haven't seen a single one. This place ought to be full of Sabals at least, there are at least 3 native Sabals in the state and S. Palmetto might as well be native, the climate is perfect for it.

I recognize that my sample size is very small being only what I can see from the airport, I have a window seat on the way out, I'll be checking for more favorable results on the flight out.

[weldertom]

If you are at George Bush, you are sitting in the middle of what historically was a pine forest.

[Xenon]

There are plenty of nice queen palms, Phoenix spp., etc. in the nearby hotels...the airport has a few Washingtonia in a few areas...Hobby Airport definitely has a more subtropical theme

[_Keith]

Bush, which I see roughly 48 times a year is nothing but ugly, inside and out. It wreaks of the time period in which it was built. Industrial wasteland.

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

Houston is full of palms everywhere you look, just not at the airport.

[Gonzer]

The refinery gases killed 'em all.

[Really full garden]

Bush Airport is in the far north of the Houston area.It is also probably a zone 8B .The most tropical looking areas are in the far southern areas and the inner city.

[smithgn]

At 29 degrees latitude and less than 30 something miles from the nearest large body of water, the frustration is understandable. I feel lt's such a let down when areas that can sufficiently grow palms don't. And there are a multitude of areas with people that would do backflips at the opportunity of growing even a phoenix or a queen palm and you don't even see a trachycarpus or sabal in said area. With that said, I was pleased with Columbia Metro Airport near me. They recently have added about 8 more sabals outside of a newly renovated parking garage. They have the palmetto theme going on there; sad it isn't going on in a place like Houston where its a near perfect climate for most cold hardy palm trees.

Edited August 16, 2015 by smithgn

[Ed in Houston]

It seems to me that Texas/Houston has been behind California and Florida in creating palmy landscapes, although this trend has waned in the last few decades. I think that part of the reason is how Houston grew rapidly from immigration mostly from the influx of Yankees where California and Florida have seen large population immigration from more southerly latitudes where palms are more prevalent.

Ed in Houston

[Xerarch]

Flying out I saw a couple of washies in neihborhoods but that was it, I'll be in Houston for real near the end of September for a conference, so I'll be able actually see more of the town. Hope I'll be pleasantly surprised with some palminess.

[Matthew92]

Unfortunately in marginal areas (zone 8) along the Gulf Coast- while the intention is good when a "tropical" image is attempted to be portrayed (mainly talking about palms of stature in mass plantings around roads, public buildings, airports, commercial areas), for the most part, all you end up with is a bunch of malnourished, over-trimmed, yellowing sabal palms. I am sick of them in this manner.

Besides Sabals, less alternatives exist than what you could count on one hand- probably P. dactylifera (canarienses will get killed), Washingtonia, pindos , and windmills (which although they do well, I haven't seen them planted in such areas much at all) And then even in 8b, as we saw in 2014, W. robusta got fried and even some died in the upper teens.

[Phoenikakias]

"Huston, it seems that we have a problem..."

[Phoenikakias]

"Huston, it seems that we have a problem..."

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

Bush Airport is in the far north of the Houston area.It is also probably a zone 8B .The most tropical looking areas are in the far southern areas and the inner city.

The airport area there is undoubtedly a strong 9A and a 9B almost every winter. There are a ton of mature phoenix sylvestris within a few miles of the airport that barely burned in 2011 along with several ponytail palms planted in peoples front yard. There are queens 10-11 miles north of the airport that survived the 2011 winter. Starting at the woodlands every 5-10 miles section you travel south you can see substantial gains in hardiness in the winter just by looking at the bananas.

[eevans]

If you are at George Bush, you are sitting in the middle of what historically was a pine forest.

Yeah, I grew up maybe 30 miles from that airport in the 1970s and 80s. When they built it and the subdivisions around it, there were indeed vast stretches of southern pine forest; fragments still remain here and there. But the pines areas intermingled with large patches of moist, periodically-flooded hardwood forest. Guess what plants thickly covered the floor of those woods?

Wild Sabal minor, as far as you could see. You can still see them in remaining patches of woods on some of the non-freeway roads to/from the airport.

I've always thought it was odd that the subdivisions that replaced most of those woods use almost no Sabal minor in their landscaping.

[Really full garden]

I just checked and Bush Airport is zipcode 77032 which according to USDA hardiness zone map is a 9A

[Xenon]

By the way,the most common palm in Houston is Washingtonia...mass planted in both commercial and residential areas...also sprouts up as a weed...Queen palms and Livistona chinensis are probably tied for second

I-45/Gulf Freeway starting south of downtown is lined with Livistona decora

[Xerarch]

Livistona chinensis more common than Sabal palmetto, Butia, Phoenix, that's really interesting.

[Xenon]

Sabal palmetto is realtively uncommon here (compared to Washies)...only found in car dealerships, malls, etc. Phoenix dactyfilera ditto. Butia is usually found in older neighborhoods. Same with CIDP.

As far as more tender stuff is concerned, pygmy dates are somewhat common in inner Houston/south side of town. There are some Bismarckia here and there. Also saw some foxtail palms that have a good chance of surviving another decade or more (thank you urban heat island).

[meteorologistpalmguy]

A list of what I have been growing here in Houston that have made it through at least last 2 winters (moved to a new place so these have not been tested against a "bad" winter ala 2011). I am about 15 miles west of IAH (Bush Airport).

R. Hysterix

S. Romanzoffiana

B. Capitata (green)

B. Capitata (blue)

Coccothrinax Barbidensis

Bismarck Nobilis (silver)

Copernicia Alba

S. Bermudana

Saribus Rotundifolia

S. Uresana

S. Carisium

Jubaea Chilensis

Jubaea X Butia

Jubaea X Syagrus

Acolorrhaphe Wrightii

Brahea Elegan

B. Decumbens

B. Dulcis

Tr. Manipur

Tr. Wagnerianus

Tr. Takil

Tr. Latisectus

Livistonia Decipiens

Dypsis Decipiens

Jubeaopsis caffra

Butia x Syagrus (mule)

Woodeyetia bifurcata

Butia eriospatha

Allogoptera areana

Beccocariapheonix Alfredii

Sabal Multiformis

W. Filifera

W. Robusta

Trachy Takagii

P. Sylvestris

Sabal Mexicana

Dypsis Decari

Ch. Seifrizii

Ch. Radicalis (trunking and non trunking)

Ch. Microspadix

Ch. Metallica

Sabal Minor

Sabal Louisiana

Ph. Carensis

Ph. Dactylifera

Ph. Theophrasti

Chamerops Humilis

Rhapsis Excelsia

And probably a few others I have forgotten. All are very young for the most part, and I live in a development surrounded by other suburban developments, with a very high canopy of live oaks and loblolly pines, keeping a lot of the frost away. Lowest temp for the past two winters has been ~24.

[_Keith]

Arenga engleri would be solid on that list, along with P sylvestris. It will be interesting to see if the W filifera and J Chilensis hold up long term to the summer humidity coupled with the wet winters.

[meteorologistpalmguy]

Arenga engleri would be solid on that list, along with P sylvestris. It will be interesting to see if the W filifera and J Chilensis hold up long term to the summer humidity coupled with the wet winters.

Indeed on the Jubaea. Anything with Jubaea blood in it I have planted in a somewhat mounded fashion, with extra drainage. One baby I had in the ground (clayish soil) unmounded gave up and died with the moist ground right away. The mounded ones seem to be fine (for now). There are a few old Filifera around in the neighborhood I live in (which was build 40 years ago). I too thought they didn't like the humidity, but they don't seem to care. 99.9% of what is sold in Houston now is Robusta, probably simply because they are faster/cheaper to get to retail size.

[NorthFlpalmguy]

Interesting... I would have thought the native Sabals would be everywhere like here in Florida. I for one get sick of Sabals up and down the medians here.

[Xenon]

http://planthardiness.ars.usda.gov/PHZMWeb/InteractiveMap.aspx

Clicking on the map pulls up the average min low between 1976-2005; the center of town along with the south/southeast side of Houston average 24-25F while most of the rest of the city falls between 22-24F. Northernmost part of the metro area falls just below 20F while the south end - nearly 28F. Getting even warmer with all the development...

Edited August 18, 2015 by Xenon

[Sandy Loam]

My friends from Houston tell me that the winters are warmer than here (warmer overnight low temperatures --- not daytime high temperatures). If that is true, I would be growing more than just cold-hardy palms.

[Ed in Houston]

I have lived in Houston since 1978. The first year we had frost in late October. The winters generally remained cold thru the 1980s with frequent 8b winters and I believe a 8a winter in 1989. This period was a setback for those who wished to have a palmy landscape. For some reason Sabals are not as as popular as they should be. I would have thought the Texas Sabal would be popular in Houston along with other Sabals but not so much. One problem I suppose is that their growth rate is fairly slow. Since 1990 the climate has been much more favorable. For the past 25 years the average yearly low temp at Hobby Airport on the south side of the city has been 28.3F. The inner city has been been even a bit warmer than that. From about 10 mile north and west of the city and then on to the SE to the bay and coast, the climate has been 9b since '89. The coldest during this period was 22 at Hobby with some 10a winters mixed in.

The city has become much more palmy since '89. A few years ago the city planted hundreds (if not a thousand) palms along I-45 from downtown on to about 15 miles to the SE toward Galveston. Mostly those are Washies, Butias, and Livistonas. During this period, queen palms seem to have become the favorite and are planted throughout the city along with Washies. Arengas are way under utilized.

More tender palms have been planted but the 9a winter a few years ago set back that notion. One of the favorite smaller palms planted, the pygmy date, is also planted in great numbers in the warmer half of the city. Half of these got wiped out a few years ago. Rhapis also does well. I have several Cham. cats that are now established in the warmer areas of the yard. Other "indicator" plants that do well in the warmer half of the city are orange and grapefruit trees. Hawaiian schefflera, and birds of paradise do well although they may need some protection with a sheet covering on occasion.

The Houston climate can be divided into the before and after of 1989. Where we will go in the future is a crap shoot in my guesstimation. The city has grown by leaps and bounds with a metro population of about 5 million adding to the heat island effect. But a return to pre-1989 will hit the reset button.

Ed in Houston

[Really full garden]

Ed, I grew up in Houston and its true the 80s were like a mini ice age.The big freeze of 89 wiped out almost everything "tropical".Many palms had been defoliated by several previous severe winters. In 89 the temps dropped to the low teens and stayed under 32F for five days.There was ice in Galveston Bay.I will never forget the smell of all the rotting foliage when temps rose above freezing.

I think large scale "tropical "plantings were out of the question after the 89 freeze.None of the developers or city fathers were willing to go tropical for many years after this devastating freeze.

[Sandy Loam]

Well, if the maximum winter low for the past 25 years has been 28.3 Fahnrenheit on average (and assuming that daytime temperatures all winter hit 70 F or thereabouts), I would be much more adventurous than limiting myself to the palms discussed in this thread - Washingtonia, Syagrus Romanzoffiana, Sabals, Butia, etc. I would venture at least into some Zone 9a plantings and possibly some Zone 9b since it appears that the region has more Zone 9b winters than Zone 9a....and even some Zone 10a winters. Has anyone tried Archontophoenix Cunninghamiana in Houston?

[enigma99]

A list of what I have been growing here in Houston that have made it through at least last 2 winters (moved to a new place so these have not been tested against a "bad" winter ala 2011). I am about 15 miles west of IAH (Bush Airport).

R. Hysterix

S. Romanzoffiana

B. Capitata (green)

B. Capitata (blue)

Coccothrinax Barbidensis

Bismarck Nobilis (silver)

Copernicia Alba

S. Bermudana

Saribus Rotundifolia

S. Uresana

S. Carisium

Jubaea Chilensis

Jubaea X Butia

Jubaea X Syagrus

Acolorrhaphe Wrightii

Brahea Elegan

B. Decumbens

B. Dulcis

Tr. Manipur

Tr. Wagnerianus

Tr. Takil

Tr. Latisectus

Livistonia Decipiens

Dypsis Decipiens

Jubeaopsis caffra

Butia x Syagrus (mule)

Woodeyetia bifurcata

Butia eriospatha

Allogoptera areana

Beccocariapheonix Alfredii

Sabal Multiformis

W. Filifera

W. Robusta

Trachy Takagii

P. Sylvestris

Sabal Mexicana

Dypsis Decari

Ch. Seifrizii

Ch. Radicalis (trunking and non trunking)

Ch. Microspadix

Ch. Metallica

Sabal Minor

Sabal Louisiana

Ph. Carensis

Ph. Dactylifera

Ph. Theophrasti

Chamerops Humilis

Rhapsis Excelsia

And probably a few others I have forgotten. All are very young for the most part, and I live in a development surrounded by other suburban developments, with a very high canopy of live oaks and loblolly pines, keeping a lot of the frost away. Lowest temp for the past two winters has been ~24.

Your W. bifurcata took 24F? How is it doing?

[Xenon]

Prior to 2010, there were some Archontophoenix, Wodyetia, and even some royal palms. Nothing below 25F from 1997-2010, some winters with no freeze at all. Starting to see Wodyetia here and there, Ravenea rivularis is also popular.

[Sandy Loam]

It sounds as though you can get away with growing more tropicals in Houston than in San Antonio, TX, even though S.A. is farther south. Obviously your growing options are broader in Brownsville, TX and even in Corpus Christi, TX because those are places where coconut trees are growing. Yet would it be uncautious to say that Houston can rival even, say, Laredo TX for growing tropicals?

Clearly, Houston doesn't get as cold as Austin TX, and Dallas TX must be like a completely different planet with its brutal, freezing winter weather.

[Xerarch]

Interesting... I would have thought the native Sabals would be everywhere like here in Florida. I for one get sick of Sabals up and down the medians here.

I think that the problem in Texas is that native large Sabals are not widely distributed as they are in Florida. These days, the native range of S. mexicana (texana) is just a very small area along the Rio Grande, and Sabal X brazoriensis perhaps never had a wide distribution. Contrast this to Florida where just about the entire state is covered with mature S. palmetto, an easy source to dig and plant all over town. It is a real shame however that even though large parts of Texas are thick with native S. minor, that they don't appear to get adequate landscape use. No doubt they are seen by "none palm people" as less attractive and not very desirable.

In spite of all this, I believe that Houston ought to be thick with various Sabals, even a repeat of 1989 wouldn't put a dent in them. After all, Washingtonia isn't native and they seem to be planted all over the place and are less hardy to boot. I know, they are cheap and grow fast, etc. but there is little doubt that the climate is more suited for Sabal.

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

It sounds as though you can get away with growing more tropicals in Houston than in San Antonio, TX, even though S.A. is farther south. Obviously your growing options are broader in Brownsville, TX and even in Corpus Christi, TX because those are places where coconut trees are growing. Yet would it be uncautious to say that Houston can rival even, say, Laredo TX for growing tropicals?

Clearly, Houston doesn't get as cold as Austin TX, and Dallas TX must be like a completely different planet with its brutal, freezing winter weather.

Very correct. Outside of the Riverwalk microclimate San Antonio is a borderline 9b/9a. Austin is a warm 8b with a few 9a areas. The DFW area is an 8a with only a few 8b areas. Both Austin and Dallas-Fort worth are subject to more prolonged, intense artic fronts that tend to be brief in San Antonio and especially Houston due to the gulf. Much like Florida if Houston gets cold it doesn't last very long before it warms up whereas DFW will stay below freezing for 36+consecutive hours.

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

Interesting... I would have thought the native Sabals would be everywhere like here in Florida. I for one get sick of Sabals up and down the medians here.

I think that the problem in Texas is that native large Sabals are not widely distributed as they are in Florida. These days, the native range of S. mexicana (texana) is just a very small area along the Rio Grande, and Sabal X brazoriensis perhaps never had a wide distribution. Contrast this to Florida where just about the entire state is covered with mature S. palmetto, an easy source to dig and plant all over town. It is a real shame however that even though large parts of Texas are thick with native S. minor, that they don't appear to get adequate landscape use. No doubt they are seen by "none palm people" as less attractive and not very desirable.

In spite of all this, I believe that Houston ought to be thick with various Sabals, even a repeat of 1989 wouldn't put a dent in them. After all, Washingtonia isn't native and they seem to be planted all over the place and are less hardy to boot. I know, they are cheap and grow fast, etc. but there is little doubt that the climate is more suited for Sabal.

I agree. In my opinion Sabal Mexicana are one of the most impressive and beautiful of the genus and are completely cold hardy even as one strap seedlings in an 8a/b zone.

[Really full garden]

To really understand why there are so few really old P.canariensis or Sabals in Houston you need to go way back to Houstons early days. Houston was a tropical swamp with cholera,yellow fever and malaria. It was an almost unbearable place to live(survive) before airconditioning and modern medicine.

The founding fathers and early developers wanted to promote the city as a "civilized" place to live and work.Palms were equated with tropical and unhealthy places.It was really only in the 40s and 50s that palms began to be seen as symbols of wealth and leisure.

[palmsnbananas]

Oh yeah absolutely pathetic use of palms throughout the city.

They use washingtonias and queens everywhere and medjool dates for some reason.

There need to be canaries everywhere, med falms, birds of paradise, cold hardy bromeliads, Brahea armatas.

[meteorologistpalmguy]

Your W. bifurcata took 24F? How is it doing?

It took it.. but not well. Was heavily wrapped and under canopy but still had plenty of burn (was only one night that cold). Still pushed through and looks good now after last winter being relatively mild. I fully expect that puppy to get killed by the cold at some point (I treat it more as an annual).

The problem with Houston is that indeed we are 9a/9b/10a most winters, but the nature of our location (in reality not that far displaced to the east of the Rocky Mountains (at least from a meteorologist's perspective), means that when a true polar airmass rides down the front range (due to density gradients) it can pour right into Houston unabated ala late 1980s or 2011 for a more recent example. These airmasses then tend to moderate as they spread eastward and/or traverse over the Gulf of Mexico so places like Florida do not get it as bad as we do, but in these 1 out of 25 year events we see an 8a winter and it eliminates everything that looked like it was cold hardy for the prior 24 years. Certainly the expansion of Houston's population is helping moderate even the coldest of winters, but in my opinion we can almost bet on a zone 8 winter still at least once every 25. We probably will not ever see the all time record low of 5 degrees again though, or even the 7 degrees seen in 1989. The lowest Houston (IAH) has seen since 1989 is 19 degrees on a couple of occasions. Take all that and add about 2 degrees for Hobby airport or the south side of Houston.

[Ed in Houston]

There is nothing between Texas and the North Pole but a barbed wire fence.

Ed in Houston

[Sandy Loam]

Oh yeah absolutely pathetic use of palms throughout the city.

They use washingtonias and queens everywhere and medjool dates for some reason.

There need to be canaries everywhere, med falms, birds of paradise, cold hardy bromeliads, Brahea armatas.

_________________

But isn't "Texas Phoenix Palm Decline" a big problem over there? You wouldn't want to see stuff planted that is just going to die ten years later, right?

[Xerarch]

Oh yeah absolutely pathetic use of palms throughout the city.

They use washingtonias and queens everywhere and medjool dates for some reason.

There need to be canaries everywhere, med falms, birds of paradise, cold hardy bromeliads, Brahea armatas.

_________________

But isn't "Texas Phoenix Palm Decline" a big problem over there? You wouldn't want to see stuff planted that is just going to die ten years later, right?

To my knowledge Texas Phoenix Palm Decline has not been a problem in Houston, it has ravaged the Phoenix genus in the Rio Grande Valley, and has been present to a lesser extent around Corpus Christi, but not much north of there.