Nursery Pots, high drain hole or regular drain hole

[Mike Evans]

I have noticed a lot of the palms growing in the nursery were growing faster and healthier when they were in the high hole containers. The high hole containers allowed more water to the root zone, and kept the roots inside the container, instead of spreading out along the ground through the regular container drain holes. These high hole pots can be beneficial for palms that do not like their roots disturbed, such as Bismarks. It also makes it easier to pull the palm from the container when the roots are not growing out the drain holes. This type of container can also be beneficial to the California folks during the drought, by keeping some extra water in the pot. I would like to hear from other growers that have tried these high hole containers. I am now starting to use the high hole pots in mass for the water loving palms. The pic below are shows the 2 different pots upside down so you can see the difference in drain holes. The high hole pot is on the left and regular pot is on the right. Note the lack of center drain hole on the high hole pot, so the water stays contained in the bottom. Comments and experiences on high hole, regular and or fabric bag pots?

[Gonzer]

Not good. The main premise for palm potting soil is drainage. Just my two cents.

[DoomsDave]

Not good. The main premise for palm potting soil is drainage. Just my two cents.

Hmm.

Some palms, like Triangles that have to be a bit dry, I agree.

Others, that like moister, like Archies, might be better in high hole pots.

Someone should do an experiment under controlled conditions and see.

[Monòver]

I don't like it.

I think will be dangerous.

Winter, cold days, rain and always wet roots.

Ii is posible, this will be good in a dry and warm places, with palms like archontophoenix, Carpoxilon or Lemurs.

[Neil C]

Won't the lack of drainage at the bottom just lead to a build up of salts and stagnant water?

Regards Neil

[Tomas]

In the period when the plants need a lot of water, put the pot into a saucer and water until the saucer is full, this will do the same.

Tomas

[Mike Evans]

I agree with every ones comments and concerns about too wet in winter and salt buildup, but I have observed good results with Archontophoenix, Ptychosperma, Caryota, Foxtail, many Dypsis types, and a number of others I cannot remember. It was in a somewhat controlled conditions where palms from the same seed and size were bumped up to larger containers and exhibited this better growth pattern. Obviously not good for palms that like drier conditions. All I can do is speak from observations, but every ones growing conditions are different throughout the World.

[Danilopez89]

Last time I bought bismarckias they came in the high hole containers. Plenty of root action in there.

[Gonzer]

I agree with every ones comments and concerns about too wet in winter and salt buildup, but I have observed good results with Archontophoenix, Ptychosperma, Caryota, Foxtail, many Dypsis types, and a number of others I cannot remember. It was in a somewhat controlled conditions where palms from the same seed and size were bumped up to larger containers and exhibited this better growth pattern. Obviously not good for palms that like drier conditions. All I can do is speak from observations, but every ones growing conditions are different throughout the World.

Excellent way to look at it. Experience is 95% of the game.

[Hammer]

Not a fan even for the water lovers. Huge opportunity for anaerobic activities that will rot the roots of even the most water loving palm.

[Jim in Los Altos]

I see palms at big box stores in these all the time and they're life savers because the plants are poorly maintained while at the stores. Palms with sensitive roots benefit too since there's no root activity outside the pots and into the ground. I've bought many palms for projects such as Bismarck, P. roebelenii, Butia, Sabal, Brahea, Archontophoenix, etc. in these pots and the palms always had most of their root activity down at the bottom of these pots and they were very robust so I'm not so sure there's actually anything bad about these pots. They still drain so it's easy to prevent salt buildup and the inch and a half of water at the bottom gets sucked up eagerly by the palms in a few days.

[MattyB]

I've used these pots for water lovers but I always cut a few small holes in the bottom just to drain any sitting water.

[Sabal Steve]

Here's a Copernicia alba that I have in a pot without holes. It gets watered frequently and loves it.

[cycadjungle]

I have used a hybrid pot that did the best of both ideas. It had the high holes which helped a lot about the roots coming out the side holes, but they had a bottom hole so it would drain and not puddle up. Cut a hole in the bottom of the one you have and you got something good there.

[Jonathan]

It's never as straight forward as it seems, and like someone pointed out earlier - personal experience can lead to some interesting observations.

Like these P. reclinata's growing in a pool of water. This shot was taken today in the middle of the southern Tasmanian winter.

They've been in the pool since last November (spring) and have been through one of the coldest, frostiest and generally nastiest winters we've had for a while.

They are inside a shadehouse (50% shade) and so never get direct frost, but the area around them is probably the coldest at my place, so the water would be near freezing regularly.

Also the water is obviously stagnant...and nutrient rich.

Note that the top half of each pot is above water level, and this seems to be the key - allow oxygen into the fine surface roots, the deeper, coarser roots are happy under water.

If the pots were fully submerged the plants would drown.

Roots poking out the bottom - these need to be planted out really, but I haven't gotten round to it yet!

Cheers,

Jonathan

[NorthFlpalmguy]

^{I have been using 1 gallon high hole grow bags to start seedlings this year and I like them. They don't stay in them very long though. As mentioned before, you can poke a hole in the bottom if you are worried about stagnant water. I bet these would be great for overgrown, root-bound palms with sensitive root systems.}

[_Keith]

I have 2 Majesty Palms in high hole pots and they love it.

[palmislandRandy]

I had a stack of 3 gal high hole pots someone gave me when I moved. I ended up drilling a few more drain holes in the bottom. I was sure the roots would rot in the stagnant water.

[Pal Meir]

Here an over 25 years old Phoenix rupicola, standing in a clay pot without any draining holes since 6 years; a quarter of the pot was all the time filled with water:

[Pal Meir]

And this Cocos nucifera stood permanently 10 to 20 cm deep in water for many years:

[Phoenikakias]

Clay pots are porous anyway and 'breath'. Soil moisture is absorbed by pot's walls and evaporates much faster. Therefore conclusions referring to initial issue based on experience with clay pots are imo not safe...

[Pal Meir]

Clay pots are porous anyway and 'breath'. Soil moisture is absorbed by pot's walls and evaporates much faster. Therefore conclusions referring to initial issue based on experience with clay pots are imo not safe...

Yes, you are right. But the wooden pail for the coconut didn't breath at all.

[Jonathan]

It seems to be the level of the water that's important, not necessarily the presence of it in the pot...

[JT in Japan]

It's never as straight forward as it seems, and like someone pointed out earlier - personal experience can lead to some interesting observations.

Like these P. reclinata's growing in a pool of water. This shot was taken today in the middle of the southern Tasmanian winter.

They've been in the pool since last November (spring) and have been through one of the coldest, frostiest and generally nastiest winters we've had for a while.

P1110820.JPG

This is interesting, Jonathan. What was the original thought behind sinking them?

[David_Sweden]

Have you checked for how long there's water in the bottom after watering? I can imagine a big palm in a hot climate which needs watering 1-2 times per week and has lot of roots at the bottom sucks it all up in a few hours? And thus maybe ok for most palms? Even if it goes against all I read and I usually remove even a few millimeters of standing water in the saucer.

[Jonathan]

It's never as straight forward as it seems, and like someone pointed out earlier - personal experience can lead to some interesting observations.

Like these P. reclinata's growing in a pool of water. This shot was taken today in the middle of the southern Tasmanian winter.

They've been in the pool since last November (spring) and have been through one of the coldest, frostiest and generally nastiest winters we've had for a while.

P1110820.JPG

This is interesting, Jonathan. What was the original thought behind sinking them?

Hi - We were going away for a few days over summer so I thought it would be an easy way of keeping them happy.

They've been in there for 8 or 9 months now!

I'd like to make one suggestion before you go shoving all your palms into pools though...I suspect that this would be a bad idea for small seedlings or palms that have been recently potted up.

In other words, if the pot is full of roots then yes, if not, then maybe wait a while, otherwise I think you'd be risking anaerobic conditions developing in the potting mix and possible root rot.

Also maybe I wouldn't put any very marginal species in a pond over winter!

I'm going to keep experimenting though - Livistona, other Phoenix species, Archontophoenix...there's plenty of candidates.

I seem to remember someone here growing a Bangalow in a fish pond for a while?

Cheers,

Jonathan

[Pal Meir]

I'd like to make one suggestion before you go shoving all your palms into pools though...I suspect that this would be a bad idea for small seedlings or palms that have been recently potted up.

In other words, if the pot is full of roots then yes, if not, then maybe wait a while, otherwise I think you'd be risking anaerobic conditions developing in the potting mix and possible root rot.

Also maybe I wouldn't put any very marginal species in a pond over winter!

I'm going to keep experimenting though - Livistona, other Phoenix species, Archontophoenix...there's plenty of candidates.

I seem to remember someone here growing a Bangalow in a fish pond for a while?

Hi Jonathan, your obsevations and suggestions correspond to my experience, too. In summer I also left many palms up to 1/4 or 1/3 in water like the most Phoenix, all Washingtonias, Arenga engleri, and other healthy ones with strong roots planted into a mineralic potting mix which can avoid rotting and other anaerobic processes. Other palms I have grown all the year indoors like Cocos and Acoelorrhaphe I left all the time in water (even if grown in plastic containers like my Acoelorrhaphe for almost 20 years).

But palms like Brahea armata, Licuala grandis, Lytocaryum insigne, Rhapis etc. I never allowed standing longer as an hour or so in water.

[Jonathan]

Yep - that sounds logical to me.

Any palm that naturally grows along water courses and likes to have its feet in the water table would be a possibility for this sort of watering.

Cheers,

Jonathan