do palms grow faster if you cut off the inflorescence ....?

[trioderob]

if you chop off the flowers and not let them go to seed -faster or slower growth ????

it boggles the mind...................

most of my palms are flowing like crazy now - not sure if I should just leave them be

Edited May 18, 2015 by trioderob

[Jerry@TreeZoo]

I think, theoretically yes, but you would need a micrometer to measure the difference. The growing point is so far above the inflorescence, relatively speaking, that the energy diverted to flowering and fruiting is already in the system and downstream of the growing bud. Maybe root growth or sucker growth would be affected more than leaf production.

[trioderob]

bottom line - cut them or leave them- what say ye palm Guru's ?

[bgl]

Like Jerry said, I doubt you'd know the difference. I have always left mine on. Heck, stuff grows fast enough anyway!

[trioderob]

particularly if you get 150 " of rain per year.

[Jeff Searle]

Well....it only makes sense to me. If all the energy that goes in to producing flower structures and setting seed were eliminated, I would think the growth would then speed up some.

[DoomsDave]

Bob asks an interesting question, which, it would appear, needs to be answered by an experiment measuring the growth rate of "castrati" against those left intact.

It appears that no one really knows, only that it makes sense that castrati would grow faster. There's no proof they really do.

I suspect that if there is any difference it will be de minimus. The flower structure on non-hexapanthic palms is generally pretty small compared to the rest of the plant.

But, I don't really know.

Anyone up for an experiment?

[bgl]

Dave,

I seriously doubt that an "experiment" is practical. You would need a VERY large number of palms in the two control groups (as "in the hundreds") in order to draw any useful conclusions. As you know, I have planted fairly large groups of many palms (sometimes up to a hundred or more of the same species) and one thing I have learned is that there can be great differences in growth rate within a species. You observe that when you have 50 or 100 of the same species in the ground. Now, if you were to attempt an "experiment" with a small number of palms you would never know if any difference in growth rate was simply because of the natural difference in growth rate between individuals OR because you cut off the inflorescences in one of the control groups.

Bo-Göran

[Palmdude]

I've often wondered the same thing. Only drawback I see is cutting fresh tissue and opening up the possibility of pathogens entering the palm. That being said, I cut them off if they're making a mess and have never had any problems. I agree with Bo as far as needing to do a rather large experiment. I'm in no rush for things to grow

[Darold Petty]

I always cut off the spadix of my six adult Rhopalostylis for two reasons. The fruits are eaten by rats, and also I don't want hundreds of seedlings that I must weed out. I do allow my Chatham island form to make seed.

This removal opens a large surface area of moist, fresh tissue. To avoid pathogens on the wound I dust it very heavily with powered sulfur. This is cheap, non-toxic, and completely effective. I have done this for more than 20 years, and have never suffered an infection on any of my palms through the wounded base of the spadix. .

This practice was taught to me by a cycad expert, who would always dust the cut surface of cycad offsets removed from the main plant.

[trioderob]

ANYONE ELSE A SPADEX CUTTER ?

[_Keith]

Yes, they tend to gain weight and their voice gets a little higher pitched.

[DoomsDave]

Dave,

I seriously doubt that an "experiment" is practical. You would need a VERY large number of palms in the two control groups (as "in the hundreds") in order to draw any useful conclusions. As you know, I have planted fairly large groups of many palms (sometimes up to a hundred or more of the same species) and one thing I have learned is that there can be great differences in growth rate within a species. You observe that when you have 50 or 100 of the same species in the ground. Now, if you were to attempt an "experiment" with a small number of palms you would never know if any difference in growth rate was simply because of the natural difference in growth rate between individuals OR because you cut off the inflorescences in one of the control groups.

Bo-Göran

Everything you say is true, but it would be a fascinating experiment. Maybe someone can get an IPS grant to do it?

All experiments take variables into account. I think it would be plenty feasible if you used small palms, like Chamadorea radicalis. Put them in pots, all the same size, under the same shade cloth, same amount of water to each, etc. You can measure their size, or shake them out of the pots and weigh them. I recall the experiments that measured various chemicals' effectiveness took the same approach. You then check to see if there's a statistically significant difference between the various groups. It's a lot of work.

It might also be interesting to try an experiment in palms planted in city parks for example.

[Darold Petty]

emasculation this morning !

[trioderob]

thats vulgar

[Josh-O]

cut

cut cut

away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have never seen the difference.

But what Jeff said makes good sense though...

[Really full garden]

I have noticed that almost all my palms first,second and sometimes third flowering attempts result in aborted seeds in very early stages of development.I think this does demonstrate a major energy expenditure for a growing palm.

[trioderob]

I will bet is does use a lot of energy - same as with humans.

Edited May 18, 2015 by trioderob

[LJG]

We have a few palm botanist we can ask. I will send an email to see if one can reply as it is an interesting question and one that I too have always been curious about.

[Zeeth]

I bet that it would really have an effect on something like a coconut. They don't even bother in less than ideal climates.

[Danilopez89]

My queens flower heavily. I too wonder, "if I went up there and cut them off, would it be better for the palm tree?".

[John Dransfield]

There is a careful analysis of the growth of the rattan palm Calamus caesius in plantation that shows that internodes associated with inflorescences are shorter and of smaller diameter than those not associated with inflorescences, which does seem to indicate that where resources go into reproductive activity, fewer are available for vegetative growth. Of course, all this goes on within the terminal bud out of sight and is not evident until the leaves and internodes are fully developed. It all makes a great deal of sense. However, offhand I know of no data that suggest that inflorescence removal would then promote vegetative growth, logical though that may appear. But, hang on, a palm in full flower is a beautiful sight!

John

[Jeff Searle]

John....thanks for coming on and adding some input. I'm still "sticking to my guns" and feel the palm does benefit with extra growth when flower structures are removed. And of course I have no proof to back up this opinion.. Lol. But I certainly agree with the thoughts on just how beautiful many infructescence can be. Even the inflorescence can be very colorful, and as we all know, seeds come in all shapes, sizes and color! Talk about an added beauty!

[LJG]

There is a careful analysis of the growth of the rattan palm Calamus caesius in plantation that shows that internodes associated with inflorescences are shorter and of smaller diameter than those not associated with inflorescences, which does seem to indicate that where resources go into reproductive activity, fewer are available for vegetative growth. Of course, all this goes on within the terminal bud out of sight and is not evident until the leaves and internodes are fully developed. It all makes a great deal of sense. However, offhand I know of no data that suggest that inflorescence removal would then promote vegetative growth, logical though that may appear. But, hang on, a palm in full flower is a beautiful sight!

John

Thanks John.

I know some palms growing in my sterile DG stopped yellowing after I started cutting off inflorescence. My Dypsis decaryii is a great example.

[trioderob]

There is a careful analysis of the growth of the rattan palm Calamus caesius in plantation that shows that internodes associated with inflorescences are shorter and of smaller diameter than those not associated with inflorescences, which does seem to indicate that where resources go into reproductive activity, fewer are available for vegetative growth. Of course, all this goes on within the terminal bud out of sight and is not evident until the leaves and internodes are fully developed. It all makes a great deal of sense. However, offhand I know of no data that suggest that inflorescence removal would then promote vegetative growth, logical though that may appear. But, hang on, a palm in full flower is a beautiful sight!

John

Mr Dransfield-

thank you for the information.

[Josh-O]

It's always nice to get your valuable input John. Thanks for contributing to this thread.

[akamu]

very interesting topic thanks for all the input the only palms I neuter are the p. robellinii and queens cuz they grow seedlings like weeds. otherwise the seeds add to the appearance IMO. Now that we are talking about flowers has anyone had an areca triandra flower I have one that is close and I have heard they smell great

[Really full garden]

very interesting topic thanks for all the input the only palms I neuter are the p. robellinii and queens cuz they grow seedlings like weeds. otherwise the seeds add to the appearance IMO. Now that we are talking about flowers has anyone had an areca triandra flower I have one that is close and I have heard they smell great

Yes they do smell great.I would describe the smell as sort of a clean lemony smell.

[Moose]

if you chop off the flowers and not let them go to seed -faster or slower growth ????

it boggles the mind...................

most of my palms are flowing like crazy now - not sure if I should just leave them be

[trioderob]

ok will take photos.....Bizze just went to flower for the first time too

pretty bitchin looking

Edited May 21, 2015 by trioderob

[DoomsDave]

There is a careful analysis of the growth of the rattan palm Calamus caesius in plantation that shows that internodes associated with inflorescences are shorter and of smaller diameter than those not associated with inflorescences, which does seem to indicate that where resources go into reproductive activity, fewer are available for vegetative growth. Of course, all this goes on within the terminal bud out of sight and is not evident until the leaves and internodes are fully developed. It all makes a great deal of sense. However, offhand I know of no data that suggest that inflorescence removal would then promote vegetative growth, logical though that may appear. But, hang on, a palm in full flower is a beautiful sight!

John

[DoomsDave]

emasculation this morning !

IMG_3388.JPG IMG_3389.JPGIMG_3390.JPG

Does the palm go from baritone to soprano?

[Josh-O]

emasculation this morning !

IMG_3388.JPG IMG_3389.JPGIMG_3390.JPG

Does the palm go from baritone to soprano?

[Al in Kona]

I guess I'm thinking similarly as Jeff in that when the inflorescence/infrutescence is removed, all that energy must benefit the palm in some other way, fuller or perhaps faster growth or some other benefit, although we know this hasn't been proven yet. I just once again removed the huge, heavy, beginning inflorescence from my Wodyetia. Climbed up the ladder, I cut it off and since it was too heavy to hold onto, it fell to the ground with a thump. Also, I didn't want any seeds forming and falling all over the bromeliads below.

[Josh-O]

[trioderob]

here is one angle nobody has talked about.

what if by cutting off the inflorescence off you actually slow things down ???........

in other words the plant thinks " I NEED TO MATE COME HELL OR HIGH WATER " and then uses even MORE energy to try to put out a secondary set of flowers.

it boggles the mind.

[Josh-O]

[CYPALMS]

Palms like most things in nature, except humans of course live with the sole purpose to survive through times. Palms really dont care about what we think of their growth rate. They live and adapt to their environment to suit themselves for more efficient seeding and consequently better survival chances.

Additionally, when a palm is about to start flowering, it will try to absorb from the ground the nutrients needed, which of course are not the same as the ones responsible for growth.

I tend to think that a palm will try to finish the flowering process, during which of course it continues to grow in size, as flowering occurs always during the growth season. In my opinion, even if we could conduct a large scale experiment about this issue, we wouldnt be able to find any significant difference in growth rate, if we were to cut the infloresences.