New Roystonea elata's: What to expect?

[Kostas]

Hello

Two weeks ago I brought two Roystonea elata from Florida. They arrived in better shape than the one I lost last year(arrived with a dead spear leaf and fell down all rotted at the base 1,5 months later) and seem to have stabilized by now, maybe even started growing a bit. Here they are upon arrival, after potting them up:

And here they are a few days ago:

They arrived with very limited but functional and healthy root systems, and I water them daily to compensate some for their diminished water uptake capabilities. The width of their root system spans the whole pot they are in but it would only be good for a 1-2g plant, not for their size. How fast can they fill their 3g pots with enough roots to easily sustain themselves and to form rootballs good enough to allow ground planting?

Thank you very much in advance!

[Josh-O]

yikes....

[DoomsDave]

Keep them moist

They could well recover

keep us advised

(We KNOW you will . . . )

[Pando]

How long were they in transit??

[Kostas]

Thank you for your replies

They spent 2 weeks in their box. These do feel like they will survive and are not declining. How fast can they fill their containers with roots?

[Phoenikakias]

It depends on the soil quality... I would never use pure compost soil with guano on any palm! We have discussed about this privately. I forgot only to mention that with such soli (is the one of a german firm with a green stamp?) I LOST two palms growing in the ground, one farely big Brahea dulcis and a Trachycarpus oreophilus... Instead with home made soil I have managed to save also Sabal seedlings with damaged root system. My late Rostonea regia, while still in pot, loved well structured clay soil amended with organics.

Edited April 25, 2015 by Phoenikakias

[Kostas]

It's a well draining soil and a temporary one for those palms, plus this species will easily outgrow those pots fast and fill everything with roots if they do well. So soil degradation over time isn't an issue here. Yes, it's a German one, possibly the one you refer to? I don't know. I have tested this soil with other palms and cycads of mine and found it to be a particularly good, well draining soil that retains structure and moisture well. I trust it for growing cycads, so it has proved more than good enough so far

Also, these arrived bareroot and wouldn't even survive to look as good as they do in well draining, coarse soil. The problem with bareroot palms is getting soil between the roots and a fine particle soil is the best bet for the establishment period. They need water, plenty of water and the best possible soil-root contact to allow for sufficient water uptake. A mix with clay may have been even better but i don't have clay laying around here, so I used what I had to get them potted immediately upon arrival.

[Jerry@TreeZoo]

Kostas,

Your soil looks too heavy to me. Or maybe the pots are not draining.

Even though Roystoneas need lots and lots of water in the hot season, their roots also need good pore space. Roots need more oxygen than people realize.

[Kostas]

Thank you very much for your reply Jerry

I had just flood-watered the pots prior to the photo, that's why you see the left one with standing water. The mix seems of good structure , it's compost based with sand, but the left one drains slowly over 5minutes, possibly due to the drainage holes touching the clay of the ground. Would you recommend watering less often than everyday? These are bareroot palms with much less than adequate root systems and the seller recommends keeping the water threshold very high to increase absorption and help with their water needs

Daily watering also flushes old water from the soil and help with aerating it I think. Would you recommend cutting down on it and by how much? They seem to be getting happier day by day and slowly try to open the spear

[Phoenikakias]

Well, if you see improvement do nothing Was the sand added by you? I discovered that sometimes sand speeds up decomposition of compost! I have no clue how this happens and whether it is connected with quality of sand, or of the compost soil or of both. It is however a very dangerous happening for the plants growing in the mix. Those traditional pots really suck! You'd better go and by those special pots I found. Very rarely had good results with such pots. Only when I used pumice as substrate and pots were white, that is...

[Moose]

Thank you very much for your reply Jerry

I had just flood-watered the pots prior to the photo, that's why you see the left one with standing water. The mix seems of good structure , it's compost based with sand, but the left one drains slowly over 5minutes, possibly due to the drainage holes touching the clay of the ground. Would you recommend watering less often than everyday? These are bareroot palms with much less than adequate root systems and the seller recommends keeping the water threshold very high to increase absorption and help with their water needs

Daily watering also flushes old water from the soil and help with aerating it I think. Would you recommend cutting down on it and by how much? They seem to be getting happier day by day and slowly try to open the spear

Jerry is spot on about you mix. Yes, these palms are water pigs but moist soil, not saturated is what your looking to achieve. The roots require an oxygen gas exchange. You may be inviting a fungal development. These palms are infamous about "dampening off".

[DoomsDave]

Kostas

are the plants getting solid in the pot, that is, if you nudge them, they seem hard rooted in? They don't move much?

[Kostas]

Thank you very much for your replies! I appreciate your guidance very much!

Konstantinos,

The sand was in the mix off the shelf, I did not add anything. I totally agree that the pots sold for home use are not good at all, I drill many extra holes at the bottom to make them useable and ok. Still, for lack of enough nursery pots, I have grown cycads in them for years with good results. It's all in the mix and how you handle them. But the pots do eventually get brittle, though these red ones are pretty long lasting. I prefer the red ones over the white, I don't know, I just don't like looking at white, it's too bright in the sun for the eyes. Colored pots warm faster also, which is good on the long cool days of spring and fall. In summer I just make sure they don't get too much sun from sideways.

I also use pumice at the bottom for certain plants such as bananas, but for most I don't. They dry too fast with it and I have to water more.

I would love to get the unusually tall pots you found! I wish they were available closer by. But I will eventually go get some, got cycads for reporting...

Ron,

Would you suggest keeping just moist even palms with inadequate root system after transplant for example? If yes, should i cut down on watering only when the top starts to dry some? This would be every 3-4days or even every 5. Would that be ok without them starting to die back more at the crownshaft? Green tissue dieback has ceased since I started daily watering and growth has marginally started. But daily watering is just for a short transitional period, till roots can sustain them with normal soil moisture levels. I have been doing the daily watering for a week to a week and a half and plants have been here for about 2 weeks total I think. Do you think roots have grown enough by now that watering can be cut back to normal without ill effects? I am also growing Roystonea elata seedlings with great success so far(indoors) for a few months, and I let the soil dry a bit above(it does so more or less uniformely) before watering, and they like it.

Dave,

They feel solid, they don't move when nudged even with the soil flooded, so they are pretty stable. But could this be from them having rooted well enough already or just from the soil having settled good enough between the roots from the series of flood waterings?

What would you suggest for watering from now on while potted?

[Zeeth]

If you don't have success with these, I would suggest getting some seeds next time. I've found them to be relatively fast from seed under the right circumstances. Yours look to be 2-3 years old from seed, so you wouldn't lose much time-wise if you did them from seed.

[foxtail]

Thank you very much for your reply Jerry

I had just flood-watered the pots prior to the photo, that's why you see the left one with standing water. The mix seems of good structure , it's compost based with sand, but the left one drains slowly over 5minutes, possibly due to the drainage holes touching the clay of the ground. Would you recommend watering less often than everyday? These are bareroot palms with much less than adequate root systems and the seller recommends keeping the water threshold very high to increase absorption and help with their water needs

Daily watering also flushes old water from the soil and help with aerating it I think. Would you recommend cutting down on it and by how much? They seem to be getting happier day by day and slowly try to open the spear

Jerry is spot on about you mix. Yes, these palms are water pigs but moist soil, not saturated is what your looking to achieve. The roots require an oxygen gas exchange. You may be inviting a fungal development. These palms are infamous about "dampening off".

I have always the same problem. Edited April 27, 2015 by foxtail

[palmsOrl]

It's a well draining soil and a temporary one for those palms, plus this species will easily outgrow those pots fast and fill everything with roots if they do well. So soil degradation over time isn't an issue here. Yes, it's a German one, possibly the one you refer to? I don't know. I have tested this soil with other palms and cycads of mine and found it to be a particularly good, well draining soil that retains structure and moisture well. I trust it for growing cycads, so it has proved more than good enough so far

Also, these arrived bareroot and wouldn't even survive to look as good as they do in well draining, coarse soil. The problem with bareroot palms is getting soil between the roots and a fine particle soil is the best bet for the establishment period. They need water, plenty of water and the best possible soil-root contact to allow for sufficient water uptake. A mix with clay may have been even better but i don't have clay laying around here, so I used what I had to get them potted immediately upon arrival.

I have also had almost 100% failure with mail order bare root palms. The only time I usually have success bare-rooting a palm is collecting a seedling and immediately putting the roots in water or a wet paper towel. Yours will have the best chance at pulling through with warm to hot days and mild to warm nights. I'm not sure how warm the nights are in your part of Greece this time of year.

My two small R. elatas are doing well having just been planted in the ground. Good luck!

[Kostas]

I do have gotten seeds in the past and the seedlings are 3 years old now but 1-2 years away from this size. A friend of mine has been growing up growing up the seedlings and they were a tough grow I remember. I got seeds again this past winter out of fun and to grow a few more, and I have 2 healthy R. skate seedlings growing at a good pace and being pretty easy growers so far, contrary to the previous batch. I think it's the fact I used an open, compost based soil and started them on the radiator, so lack of heat was not a problem. They are pretty happy indoors, so happy I plan to grow them there to good size.

But I wanted to ground plant a royal with some size already and have it trunking asap, I am tired of looking at the spot I have planned for a royal since I started the garden, still empty and with no royal..........

My success last time importing bareroot palms was 4 out of 9 plants, but three of those that didn't make it were touchy seedlings that dried up pretty much overnight after planting. The 3 main plants of the order made it and for those, the whole order was worth it as those plants saved close to a decade of growing for their species!

I hope this order has a better success rate, hopefully 100%. I am putting a lot of effort to help them survive the rooting phase and I spent several hours washing soil between the roots, to help them get a good root-soil contact. Still, they are very stressed out and will take some time to be plantable I guess.

Days are warm here this season and nights coolish. No fast growth yet on (healthy)palms nor bananas, but they do are growing

How fast can royals root and fill this pot?

[Kostas]

Got some close ups today of the spear/opening leafs:

The smaller one. Not sure, but I think the growth under the twist, is new, grown here

The bigger one. You can see a slight pattern change at the lowermost of the spear, I think it is new growth

I have stopped daily watering and are watered along with the lawn every 2-3days. Weather is getting warmer/hotter, so I expect more movement this week

[DoomsDave]

Royals LOVE the heat!

They'll even grow in Saudi arabia, if you water them enough.

Give them room in the ground.

My biggest is about a meter across teh base of the trunk.

Like Hercules . . .

[Kostas]

Thanks Dave!

There is definite quite some more waiting ahead before they are out of the woods and start looking like something, but showing growth already is a welcome sign and the heat of next week should speed things up some!

I will try to give them room for a 1m trunk, but the good thing is that whenever and if I plant them, I can always widen their patios I am taking special considerations about their planting sites so that they are not anywhere close to sensitive understory planting season they can crash with falling leafs when older. How are your underplabtings faring regarding this matter? Do you have cycads close by or kept them clear away?

[Kostas]

They have been growing more and more everyday thankfully and seem to be on their way to recovery eventually, but the sun has been burning everything it sees, and thus only a part of the more recently grown/exposed tissue is still green(with more growing ever so slowly everyday). I should had placed in even more shade but wanted to avoid rot. I guess it's not worth moving to more shade now as they should be adjusting.

How soon could I expect them to fill their pots with roots and grow 1-2 new leafs?

[Josh-O]

post some pic's in a few weeks so we can see their progress.

from the sounds of things it looks like you are gonna be good

[Kostas]

Thanks for the encouragement Josh, will do

They are not looking too good right now, lots of brown but they are firm and growing, so I do hope they will eventually recover. I moved them to less sun yesterday and away from overhead sprinklers as I worry for rot with all this brown material. They continue growing ok, slowly but steadily

[Moose]

Thanks for the encouragement Josh, will do

They are not looking too good right now, lots of brown but they are firm and growing, so I do hope they will eventually recover. I moved them to less sun yesterday and away from overhead sprinklers as I worry for rot with all this brown material. They continue growing ok, slowly but steadily

It may be beneficial to give them diluted 20-20-20 liquid fertilizer at this point.

[Kostas]

Thank you Ron, I will start them on orchid fertilizer then

[Kostas]

A few photos of their current condition:

Smaller one

Bigger one

[Kostas]

Here is an update on the R. elata's:

Grown some but still pretty much the same. The bigger one is cracking the spear more but not opening yet. The smaller one had its developing leaf stuck in the previous leafs dried leaf base, I pulled it out and it's still pushing slowly while still drying part of the new growth, but less than before maybe.

2months now and still nothing exciting from them. At least they still live...probably

[Kostas]

Should i leave them in mostly shade till they open a leaf or move to 5-6hours sun where they will also be warmer and speed things up? Do you think they will have rooted enough by now to like such a move or get stressed more again?

Weather has not been hot enough yet this year, we have been around 25C all this time and only few days above 30C.

I just moved them to more sun as their soil was staying cool and wet where they were. Hope the extra warmth makes growth kick in. They seem somewhat stable now so i hope they take the transition well

[Phoenikakias]

I am of the opinion that those plants should be placed in full sun!

[Kostas]

Thank you very much for your reply! I placed them where they will get 5-6hours sun and warm up nicely at the root zone as well

[Jim in Los Altos]

Warm soil is key so, yes, let them get a few hours of sun each day and, hopefully, your nights are warm too because that's typically when most growth occurs.

[Kostas]

Thank you Jim! Yes, the nights are warm, at 20-25C. The green parts seem more stressed today after the extra sun exposure. Hope new growth exceeds dieback