Longest pinnate and largest palmate leaves you can grow in your area

[monkeyranch]

The palms with gigantic leaves were the first to capture my attention and begin my interest in palms. What are the longest pinnate leaf including petiole, and largest diameter palmate leaf species you can grow in your location? I used Rifle and Craft, Lorenzi, and Palmpedia for measurement references. Caryotas in pinnate group.

Here in USDA 9a, warm Sunset 7 (I'll trial plants from "warmer" zones 8,9,12,14,15) Sierra foothills:

Pinnate: Phoenix canariensis 20' L P. dactylifera is cited as up to 20' but doesn't reach canariensis size as often. Caryota maxima has up to 20' leaves but won't quite make it in this type of 9a. A vigorous

Queen (15') or a Jubaea (15')would probably second. Then a Mule or a B. eriospatha would be third around 12' each. Attalea dubia cited at 18-21' but unproven in my climate.

Palmate: Washingtonia filifera 8' DIA Second place is close with Brahea edulis, armata, Livistona chinensis, nitida, rigida, saribus, sabal causiara and palmetto all capable of reaching 6' DIA. The heavily

costapalmate ones don't seem as large however, because of the folding.

Nothing too exciting but better than no palms at all.

How about your area?

[DoomsDave]

whoo ee

should be interesting

[Walter John]

Arenga pinnata for pinnate and Corypha utan I think for fan leafed.

[Zeeth]

Attalea cohune and Corypha (I don't know the difference between utan and umbraculifera) over here!

[Darold Petty]

In my garden, Ceroxylon quindiuense at 27 feet.

[Alicehunter2000]

I think your palmate diameters are suspect. ....S. causiarum. .....only 6' diameter crown?

[monkeyranch]

I think your palmate diameters are suspect. ....S. causiarum. .....only 6' diameter crown?

Not measuring crown size but the diameter of each individual leaf not including the petiole. With oblong or hemispherical shaped leaves or those with deeply divided segments the longest axis is measured between opposite segment tips.

For pinnate leaves the measured length includes the petiole to the end of the rachis. The grand champion, Raphia regalis is cited as having the longest terrestrial leaves in the plant kingdom at 80+ feet with only aquatic Bull Kelp found off the Cali coast being longer.

Corypha umbraculifera with each leaf being 20' DIA would be the winner for the most tropical locations. How about for those with more intermediate climates?

[Zeeth]

I think your palmate diameters are suspect. ....S. causiarum. .....only 6' diameter crown?

Not measuring crown size but the diameter of each individual leaf not including the petiole. With oblong or hemispherical shaped leaves or those with deeply divided segments the longest axis is measured between opposite segment tips.

For pinnate leaves the measured length includes the petiole to the end of the rachis. The grand champion, Raphia regalis is cited as having the longest terrestrial leaves in the plant kingdom at 80+ feet with only aquatic Bull Kelp found off the Cali coast being longer.

Corypha umbraculifera with each leaf being 20' DIA would be the winner for the most tropical locations. How about for those with more intermediate climates?

I always hear about Raphia regalis having such long leaves, but no one seems to grow it. I wonder why? Any pictures I've seen of Raphia have shorter leaves than the Attalea cohune growing around here.

[Josh-O]

In my garden, Ceroxylon quindiuense at 27 feet.

Nice garden Darold shot!!

[Ben in Norcal]

In my garden, Ceroxylon quindiuense at 27 feet.

Nice garden Darold shot!!

Must be old, though, because the awesome cocoides is still there...

[DoomsDave]

Hmm.

Roystonea regia, about 20-odd feet.

Don't have any monster fans, yet. Coryphas will grow here, so they get big. Bizzies get big.

Here's a dead leaf, dangling, and laying on the ground, with The Shoe for scale. It's well over 20 feet (6.6 M) long.

[Pedro 65]

I think your palmate diameters are suspect. ....S. causiarum. .....only 6' diameter crown?

Not measuring crown size but the diameter of each individual leaf not including the petiole. With oblong or hemispherical shaped leaves or those with deeply divided segments the longest axis is measured between opposite segment tips.

For pinnate leaves the measured length includes the petiole to the end of the rachis. The grand champion, Raphia regalis is cited as having the longest terrestrial leaves in the plant kingdom at 80+ feet with only aquatic Bull Kelp found off the Cali coast being longer.

Corypha umbraculifera with each leaf being 20' DIA would be the winner for the most tropical locations. How about for those with more intermediate climates?

I always hear about Raphia regalis having such long leaves, but no one seems to grow it. I wonder why? Any pictures I've seen of Raphia have shorter leaves than the Attalea cohune growing around here.

Yes Keith, Ive thought the same about Regalis, I think it "was" a "1 of" in the deep forest , I say this is the "shaded" Raphia Australis we have here has much longer fronds/leaves than its full sun bro's.

Dave and Darold, you guys are "adding" the C/shaft to the length of your fronds, which isnt the "petiole" for an add on.

Our longest Pinnate fronds/leaves here are Raphia australis and Arenga pinnata, I cant give the length "yet" as none of our tape measures are long enough

Pete

[Darold Petty]

Pete, you are correct. I mis-read Monkeyranch terms, should be leafblade and petiole but not leafbase.
That reduces my Ceroxylon down to 22 feet.

[monkeyranch]

Zeeth, I wonder if the shallow, alkaline soils of S. FL don't allow Raphia to reach its full potential size.

Nice frond Darold. Even subtracting the leaf base, the quindiuense still beats Canaries by a couple of feet. Is that the longest leafed of the Ceroxylon species? I can't recall, does P. canariensis still thrive as you approach the ocean in the Sunset District?

I didn't bother to include the petiole length with the palmate types as it made determining the size too tricky. I figured it's really the fan size that makes the statement, not how far it's held out from the trunk. Arbitrary decision.

For the record, the often overlooked giant, arenga pinnata is cited as having 36' long fronds. Difficult to find leaf lengths of raphia species other than r. regalis. Vague claims of between 40' and 60' for raphia australis.

It is interesting what features create the impression of a palm's size. Sabal palmetto and causiara both have up to 6' DIA fans, but the palmetto has longer petioles and a more open crown, while the Hat Palm hold them tighter to the trunk, on shorter leaf stems. Despite this most would say the causiara is a much bigger palm because of the thicker trunk even though palmetto has a slightly larger crown. Post 7 in Eric's Kampong topic has a group of both species demonstrating this.

I'm not very familiar with many of the monster sized dypsis. Any bigger than attalea or arenga? Do any of the raphia grow in SoCal?

[Zeeth]

Zeeth, I wonder if the shallow, alkaline soils of S. FL don't allow Raphia to reach its full potential size.

That could be the case. As an example, the Attalea I've seen growing in Miami were much shorter than those growing at Kopsick in St. Pete, which has deep sandy soil.

[sarasota alex]

Pete, you are correct. I mis-read Monkeyranch terms, should be leafblade and petiole but not leafbase.

That reduces my Ceroxylon down to 22 feet.

It's still awesome!

[sarasota alex]

Zeeth, I wonder if the shallow, alkaline soils of S. FL don't allow Raphia to reach its full potential size.

That could be the case. As an example, the Attalea I've seen growing in Miami were much shorter than those growing at Kopsick in St. Pete, which has deep sandy soil.

Especially the one next to the parking lot!