Palmate/Pinnate Ratio

[ruskinPalms]

So far, I have been planting in the ground for about a year. I noticed this winter that the only palmate (really costapalmate as adults) palms I had in the ground were Bismarckia nobilis. It occurred to me that my palm garden did not look right. So I have upped the palmate content a bit by adding some Washingtonia, Thrinax radiata and Livistona chinensis. Not really exotic but necessary for proper balance. Really, my garden is still pinnate heavy in my mind. I am starting to think there should be at least equal parts pinnate and palmate in the garden, maybe even more palmate since the pinnate palms are usually the focal specimens. I could see where some of these native florida understory palmate and costapalmate palms could be put to good use. What are your thoughts regarding palm garden design?

[Bennz]

I was thinking of starting a thread exactly on this topic, after a discussion with a friend who confessed to just starting to develop a liking for pinnate palms. He said it as if he was almost embarrassed to admit it.....!

For me pinnate wins all the time. Also I have a strong preference for crownshaft palms. I suspect this comes from the fact that my only native palm is a pinnate crownshaft palm, and that our natural vegetation being rainforest of a subtropical looking type seems to bias me. Also my palm-choices are limited to those suited to my cool maritime climate.

As far as landscaping goes, it seems to me that a lot of palm people are such collectors that our gardens end up losing definition. I would far rather see a framework of a couple of species, which then highlight the diversity of different species. A one-of-everything garden looses cohesion, and looks 'busy'. Clumping complementary but different species together looks good, eg a clump of Archontophoenix, with a plumose palm such as Queen or Royal towards the centre, and complimentary smaller palms such as Dypsis. Throwing in a large silver palmate palm just looks wrong. I expect to get hate-mail for saying it though!

I feel sufficiently strongly about this that I have recently ordered 10,000 Archontophoenix and 5000 Rhopalostylis seed to form the basis of a new planting aimed for about 2 years time. These palms are going into a gully along with a lot of native rainforest trees, and also a lot of banyan trees. I am going to build a contrived rainforest based on what I think one should look like in my climate, using a framework consisting of the base two species throughout, with Ceroxylon in moister areas, and all other palm species limited to scattered individuals. I expect this will look a lot more cohesive than a mass planting of divergent foliage types.

My feeling is that palmate palms look best in a dry landscape environment, while pinnate ands particularly crownshaft palms look best as wet plantings.

[rubyz]

(Bennz @ Mar. 19 2007,21:10)

QUOTE

As far as landscaping goes, it seems to me that a lot of palm people are such collectors that our gardens end up losing definition. I would far rather see a framework of a couple of species, which then highlight the diversity of different species. A one-of-everything garden looses cohesion, and looks 'busy'.

I agree with this, but would go even further: for me, an esthetically pleasing garden is one which contains diverse vegetation - not only palms.

    Bushes, fruit trees and other tropical plants could highlight various palms, which, for me, are the centerpieces of my garden.

For example, I have tall bushes blocking out one neighbor's garden, two brown wooden fences fronted by coco palms blocking out the other neighbor (in two different spots), ivy covering my laundry shed, citrus trees blocking out an adjacent clinic's parking lot and a ground base of hardy evergreen grass alternated with a reddish brown gravel - all this highlighting a tall p. dactylifera. a tall a. alexandrae and a young p. canariensis. My other outdoor palms - a Kentia, a small Triangle, a tall C. elegans, two other (small) C. elegans and another (small) p. dactylifera - are all located on the adjoining patio and do not clutter the garden proper. I have received many compliments on this arrangement. but, most importantly, I like it! :laugh:

[MattyB]

I prefer the look of mass plantings of the same species, like Bo's garden.  The only problem is having enough room.  I think my collecting habit will evetually turn it into a hodge-podge.

As far as my pinnate to palmate ratio:  I have many more pinnate palms than palmate.  Palmate palms are an essential though and since I've started growing them, I've found new likings especially for Pritchardia, Coccothrinax, Licuala, and Bismarckia.

[paulgila]

see matt--i'm way ahead of you.i started out with the hodge-podge

[osideterry]

My current ratio:

Pinnate – 70%

Bipinnate – 20%

Palmate – 10%

I'm not a balanced man.

[Walter John]

Hodge podge is a good thing, equates to palm jungle. You must have fan palms in the mix. They usually end up being the focal palms in my opinion. Mine include Bizzie, Pritchardia, Latania, Livistona, Licuala, Chamaedorea.

My ratio would be 90% pinnate 20% palmate, yep, I give my palms a 110% attention.  

[paulgila]

exactly!why limit yourself

same with food,women,whatever-variety is GOOD. :cool:

[MattyB]

(Wal @ Mar. 19 2007,13:49)

QUOTE

Hodge podge is a good thing, equates to palm jungle. You must have fan palms in the mix. They usually end up being the focal palms in my opinion. Mine include Bizzie, Pritchardia, Latania, Livistona, Licuala, Chamaedorea.

My ratio would be 90% pinnate 20% palmate, yep, I give my palms a 110% attention.  

Since when is Chamaedorea a palmate palm Wal? ???  Things must really grow differently down under eh?

[Scott]

I like hodge podge too. But with 26 palms now, I have 5 palmate. So clearly the pinnate have a large leading, but the palmates are vowing to catch up.  

[ruskinPalms]

I guess I never actually gave any numbers. I am probably around 1:5 palmate:pinnate. I think most of us will be a lot heavier on pinnate since, well, they tend to look more tropical. Why do they look more tropical? My guess is that many of us associate Cocos and Roystonea, which are of course pinnate, with the tropics. So, we may be subconsciously attracted to pinnate palms when trying for the tropical look. Only problem is that palmate palms are just as important and are a very integral part of the "tropical" garden. If Pritchardia, Bismarckia, Thrinax and Cocothrinax do not look tropical then I don't know what does. Even Washingtonia, Livistona and Acoelorrhaphe mixed with the right palms look downright tropical in my opinion. Nice thing about palmate palms is that a lot of them tend to have more compact crowns and you can fill in areas between pinnate palms nicely. Also, there are many, many species that are cold and frost tolerant. For a lot of us, they are a nice way to add some much needed variety to a cold hardy palm garden. By the way, I tend to like a lot of variety, but I do agree that you should plant more than one of a given species in your garden to give a more appealing look. For the most part, I have multiples planted. A couple exceptions would be that I have only one Roystonea planted and only one Syragus planted.

[osideterry]

I think out west we associate all fans with washies. From my driveway I can count close to 30 of them as I scan the horizon. Yawn. They also conjur images of trips to Palm Springs and Barstow more than Hawaii or the Caribbean. Call it guilt by association.

After 4 years into this my first fan purchase was a Livistona decipiens, followed by the obligatory Bismarckia nobilis, and now a small Mazari. I love those monster Coryphas, and am looking to add a Sabal "Riverside" or  Sabal mauritiiformis for impact. After this winter abd hitting 25-26F, I'm not sure I want to try Licualas or Pritchardias.

[Zac in NC]

Well, I am almost 100% palmate, but its because of my climate. Most of my pinnate palms are potted and brought inside for winter.

Zac

[Matt in SD]

I also think that variety helps make a garden look good, and usually try to mix pinnate and palmate palms.  I still probably plant 3-4 pinnnate palms for every palmate palm, but I think this is reasonable because 1) there are not as many species of palmate palms (at least I don't think there are), 2)there especially aren't very many that aren't armed (a requirement in my garden), and 3)they take up a lot more "ground" space for a lot longer time than most pinnate palms which is tough in small gardens.  

My favorite palmate palms (that I can grow) are Pritchardias.  I have affinis, martii x 2, sp. 'lanai', minor (?, maybe), and viscosa in the ground and am growing up beccariana and glabrata for future planting.  I also have some Rhapis (variegated excelsa, and multifida), Chuniophoenix (nana and hainanensis), Kerriodoxa, Licuala ramsayi, and Cryosophila.  

You really can't beat a Pritchardia martii leaf though.

Matt

[Walter John]

(MattyB @ Mar. 20 2007,06:56)

QUOTE

(Wal @ Mar. 19 2007,13:49)

QUOTE

Hodge podge is a good thing, equates to palm jungle. You must have fan palms in the mix. They usually end up being the focal palms in my opinion. Mine include Bizzie, Pritchardia, Latania, Livistona, Licuala, Chamaedorea.

My ratio would be 90% pinnate 20% palmate, yep, I give my palms a 110% attention.  

Since when is Chamaedorea a palmate palm Wal? ???  Things must really grow differently down under eh?

You Matty are of course correct. A slip up on my part, got carried away with thinking about the wider leafed palms I have.

I'd like to apologise to all my fans      :laugh:  :laugh:  get it, fans  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:

[SubTropicRay]

More pinnate than palmate.

[Neofolis]

My ratio is about 99% pinnate 1% palmate, the one Trachycarpus that managed to slip into my collection.

[Patrick]

I think I'm doin' about 60-40 pinnate to palmate- though a Livistona decora does LOOK pinnate, I counted it as palmate. Details! Details!

[Phil]

Good topic, and sort of an interest point of mine.  Being a nurseryman, I can tell you that here in So Cal, 90% of people want pinnate palms.  It's been that way forever, and will probably continue so.  Many people think that palmate palms are "desert palms".  It's sometimes hard to shake that viewpoint, even though we all know there are many very exotic fan palms.   I often tell people that too many pinnate palms can be boring, especially if repetitive similar species are used.  Fan palms "break" this up.  And, I agree with comments about companion plants and color.  In any case, this topic has been around for decades.  About fifteen years ago I wrote the following article on the subject.  Check it out.  It deals with exactly this subject.

Phil

Fan Palms