List common palms by zone

[Jimbean]

Say,

Syagrus romanzoffiana cold 9B

Roystonea regia cold 10A

Phoenix roebelenii warm 9B

Phoenix reclinata cold 9B

Cocos nucifera cold 10B

etc.

Does anyone have any more to add?

[Jim in Los Altos]

Say,

Syagrus romanzoffiana cold 9B

Roystonea regia cold 10A

Phoenix roebelenii warm 9B

Phoenix reclinata cold 9B

Cocos nucifera cold 10B

etc.

Does anyone have any more to add?

Jim, what do you mean by "cold" 10b for instance. That sounds like San Francisco and you'd never get a Cocos to grow there. USDA zone maps don't provide enough information to be reliable for many palm species since a zone 10a in CA is so different from a FL zone 10a. Out west, many of us refer to the Sunset zones instead.

[Josh-O]

what Jim said...

[Jimbean]

what Jim said...

hahaha, yeah which one?

[Pando]

JimJimJosh,

Humidity levels and the average temperature (not just extreme high/lows) play a BIG role for many tropical species.

Not to mention all those special microclimates in the hills/valleys in CA, which are quite different from the flatland FL.

Edited December 23, 2014 by Pando

[Jimbean]

Say,

Syagrus romanzoffiana cold 9B

Roystonea regia cold 10A

Phoenix roebelenii warm 9B

Phoenix reclinata cold 9B

Cocos nucifera cold 10B

etc.

Does anyone have any more to add?

Jim, what do you mean by "cold" 10b for instance. That sounds like San Francisco and you'd never get a Cocos to grow there. USDA zone maps don't provide enough information to be reliable for many palm species since a zone 10a in CA is so different from a FL zone 10a. Out west, many of us refer to the Sunset zones instead.

I was thinking subtropical zones. California escaped my mind.

What I mean by "cold 10B" is Sanibel Island Florida for example.

[Jimbean]

So there would have to be some adjustment for California for my definitions to work.

[Jim in Los Altos]

So there would have to be some adjustment for California for my definitions to work.

Yeah, Jim, palms like Rhopalostylis, Ceroxylon, Dypsis decipiens, Hedescepe, Geonoma, and Howea come to mind since they are happy in CA zone 9b and are difficult if not impossible to grow in a Florida type zone 9b just as Cocos nucifera is nearly impossible in CA even in 10b.

[Funkthulhu]

waiting for 5B....

[Cikas]

Say,

Syagrus romanzoffiana cold 9B

Roystonea regia cold 10A

Phoenix roebelenii warm 9B

Phoenix reclinata cold 9B

Cocos nucifera cold 10B

etc.

Does anyone have any more to add?

Jim, what do you mean by "cold" 10b for instance. That sounds like San Francisco and you'd never get a Cocos to grow there. USDA zone maps don't provide enough information to be reliable for many palm species since a zone 10a in CA is so different from a FL zone 10a. Out west, many of us refer to the Sunset zones instead.

I was thinking subtropical zones. California escaped my mind.

What I mean by "cold 10B" is Sanibel Island Florida for example.

Mediterranean climate is also subtropical ( dry summer subtropical climate ).

[Jimbean]

Say,

Syagrus romanzoffiana cold 9B

Roystonea regia cold 10A

Phoenix roebelenii warm 9B

Phoenix reclinata cold 9B

Cocos nucifera cold 10B

etc.

Does anyone have any more to add?

Jim, what do you mean by "cold" 10b for instance. That sounds like San Francisco and you'd never get a Cocos to grow there. USDA zone maps don't provide enough information to be reliable for many palm species since a zone 10a in CA is so different from a FL zone 10a. Out west, many of us refer to the Sunset zones instead.

I was thinking subtropical zones. California escaped my mind.

What I mean by "cold 10B" is Sanibel Island Florida for example.

Mediterranean climate is also subtropical ( dry summer subtropical climate ).

There are essential differences though, enough to distinguish them.

[Jimbean]

I am going to make a California thread about this subject. This thread is about Florida zones.

[Hammer]

waiting for 5B....

Gonna be a while bro.

[Cikas]

Say,

Syagrus romanzoffiana cold 9B

Roystonea regia cold 10A

Phoenix roebelenii warm 9B

Phoenix reclinata cold 9B

Cocos nucifera cold 10B

etc.

Does anyone have any more to add?

Jim, what do you mean by "cold" 10b for instance. That sounds like San Francisco and you'd never get a Cocos to grow there. USDA zone maps don't provide enough information to be reliable for many palm species since a zone 10a in CA is so different from a FL zone 10a. Out west, many of us refer to the Sunset zones instead.

I was thinking subtropical zones. California escaped my mind.

What I mean by "cold 10B" is Sanibel Island Florida for example.

Mediterranean climate is also subtropical ( dry summer subtropical climate ).

There are essential differences though, enough to distinguish them.

I agree.

Florida has humid subtropical ( wet/rainy summer ) climate.

[Josh-O]

waiting for 5B....

hahahahah!!! then what 5a?

[Zeeth]

Say,

Syagrus romanzoffiana cold 9B

Roystonea regia cold 10A

Phoenix roebelenii warm 9B

Phoenix reclinata cold 9B

Cocos nucifera cold 10B

etc.

Does anyone have any more to add?

These numbers are good for long term survivability including 1989 type freezes (Anna Maria Island, as a cold 10b, is the farthest north on my coast that has coconuts which survived 1989), but I would shift everything down half a zone for growth excluding 1989 type freezes. Bradenton has coconuts that survived 2010 on the parts that are cold 10a, and that seems to be the cut-off point for them. For the short term, they can survive in warm 9b locations, but they were all killed in 2010 in those locations except those in the perfect microclimates. Generally though, I would say they can make it between 10 and 20 years in those locations.

[Jimbean]

Thrinax radiata warm 10A (?)

Wodyetia bifurcata cold 10A (?)

Washingtonia robusta warm 9A

Veitchia winin cold 10B, almost solid 10A

Rhapis excelsa cold 9B

Leucothrinax morrissii warm 9B

Livistona chinensis cold 9B

Acoelorraphe wrightii cold 9B or possibly warm 9A

Caryota mitis cold 10A

Dypsis lutescens warm 10A

Hyophorbe verschaffeltii warm 10A

[Jimbean]

All of the palms I have listed are ones that typically grow in my area, which is a warm 9B.

[Alicehunter2000]

I can personally attest to these....

Washingtonia robusta warm 8b

Washingtonia "filibusta" cold 8b

Livistona chinensis cold 8b

Acoelorraphe wrightii cold 9a with complete defoliation and regrow from base

Rhapis excelsa cold 9a with complete defoliation and regrow from base

[Jimbean]

I can personally attest to these....

Washingtonia robusta warm 8b

Washingtonia "filibusta" cold 8b

Livistona chinensis cold 8b

Acoelorraphe wrightii cold 9a with complete defoliation and regrow from base

Rhapis excelsa cold 9a with complete defoliation and regrow from base

now are those not taking any damage?

[Bill H2DB]

With regards to the zone numbers , why can't we include an additional character

in the value?

For example 9Am , or 9Ah to differentiate the Mediterranean vs Humid climates .

That would carry a whole lot more info , critical to success , without adding a lot of

complication to the deal .

[Alicehunter2000]

With damage....but surviving pretty easily....eccept the A. wrightii and Rhapis excelsa

Great Idea Bill!

[Jimbean]

I've seen Livistona chinensis with damage after low 20's, which by definition makes it a 9B palm.

Let me double check.

[Jimbean]

With regards to the zone numbers , why can't we include an additional character

in the value?

For example 9Am , or 9Ah to differentiate the Mediterranean vs Humid climates .

That would carry a whole lot more info , critical to success , without adding a lot of

complication to the deal .

yeah I was thinking of that in the California thread I started.

[tropicbreeze]

This doesn't take into account the duration of the cold. Many plants are okay with a short sharp spike in temperature, whereas the same low temperature prolonged would mean death or at least severe damage. With many materials, wood included, there's a lag in temperature fluctuation much greater than you get in air.

[Jimbean]

I take that into account mentally, but I don't know of an easy way to quantify that.

[Xenon]

Warm 8b - Washingtonia hybrids, Sabal palmetto, Sabal mexicana, Phoenix canariensis, Butia spp.

ex: Austin, Mobile, Tallahassee, Charleston

Cold 9a - Washingtonia robusta, Livistona chinensis, Phoenix dactyfilera

ex: San Antonio, Baton Rouge, Panama City, Savannah

Warm 9a - Syagrus romanzoffiana, Phoenix sylvestris

ex: Houston, New Orleans, Jacksonville

Cold 9b - Bismarckia nobillis, Phoenix roebelleni, Phoenix reclinata

ex: Galveston, St. Augustine

[Sandy Loam]

Hi Jim.

I am going to respectfully differ with Xenon and AliceHunter2000 regarding some of the enumerated palms by moving them one half zone colder. Why? Because large, long-term specimens of the following palms exist where I live and it is zone 8B (Yes, I know, USDA is calling it zone 9a, but it's really 8B some years):

- Washingtonia Robusta

- Phoenix Roebelleni (bud-hardy but fronds look brown in bad years)

- Phoenix Canariensis

- Phoenix Reclinata

- Syagrus Romanzoffiana (I did see two defoliate and die in our mega-freeze a few years ago, but every other queen palms around town seemed to pull through fine)

- Rhapis Excelsa

- Livistona Chinensis

- Phoenix Sylvestris

- Phoenix Dactylifera

****************

- Leucrothinax Morrissi -- seems to be 9A but I don't know for sure until mine has lived through more winters. The North Florida Palm Society lists it as possible for Tallahassee and that definitely 8B (almost 8A), so.....

- Bismarckia Nobilis- - there seem to be some long-term specimens around the region I garden in (Gainesville, FL), but there are not enough of them for me to have a firm opinion about their long-term survivability in zone 8b

Now I will wait while several posters disagree with me.

[Jimbean]

Jonathan, Sandy Loam, thanks for the input.

Part of my list is experience from observation and what I have read about, some of it is my own estimation.

I was really hoping for a long, agreed upon list.

Edited December 24, 2014 by Jimbean

[tropicbreeze]

I take that into account mentally, but I don't know of an easy way to quantify that.

I agree, and that's where you get apparent discrepancies in what people report as growing in certain zones while others are losing the same plants in the same zones..

[wimmie]

Here in Holland, none!

[Ed in Houston]

In SE Houston I have these palms growing all of which were planted after 1989. The coldest it has been since 1989 was 22F in 2011

Sabal louisiana

Sabal minor

Sabal mexicana

Syagrus romanzoffiana - 50% damage 2011

Phoenix roebelenii - 95% foliage damage, some damage to trunk, 2011 but recovered

Washingtonia hybrids

Rhapis excelsa - 10% of canes died 2011

Livistona chinensis - 40% foliage damage 2011

Acoelorraphe wrightii - no damage 2011!

Chamaerops humilis

Chamaedorea cataractarum - died 2011 and replanted, 30% of shoots died at 26 2014

Ravenea rivularis - newly palnted in 2010, died in 2011 and replanted, 70% foliage damage 2014 at 26 with ice

Chamaedorea hooperiana - died 2011, currently have seedlings in pots for eventual replanting

Chamaedorea seifrizii - died 2011

Chamaedorea radicalis

Arenga engleri

Chamaedorea woodsonia - seedlings in pots, waiting to get some size before planting

Chamaedorea elagans - most died 2011

Chamadorea brachypoda died 2011 - replanting 2 one gallon plants in spring.

Chamaedorea metallica - died 2011, seedling in pots to replant in a year or two

Rhapidophyllum hystrix

Sabal- several "who knows what" that volunteered

Ed in Houston

[Rafael]

In SE Houston I have these palms growing all of which were planted after 1989. The coldest it has been since 1989 was 22F in 2011

Sabal louisiana

Sabal minor

Sabal mexicana

Syagrus romanzoffiana - 50% damage 2011

Phoenix roebelenii - 95% foliage damage, some damage to trunk, 2011 but recovered

Washingtonia hybrids

Rhapis excelsa - 10% of canes died 2011

Livistona chinensis - 40% foliage damage 2011

Acoelorraphe wrightii - no damage 2011!

Chamaerops humilis

Chamaedorea cataractarum - died 2011 and replanted, 30% of shoots died at 26 2014

Ravenea rivularis - newly palnted in 2010, died in 2011 and replanted, 70% foliage damage 2014 at 26 with ice

Chamaedorea hooperiana - died 2011, currently have seedlings in pots for eventual replanting

Chamaedorea seifrizii - died 2011

Chamaedorea radicalis

Arenga engleri

Chamaedorea woodsonia - seedlings in pots, waiting to get some size before planting

Chamaedorea elagans - most died 2011

Chamadorea brachypoda died 2011 - replanting 2 one gallon plants in spring.

Chamaedorea metallica - died 2011, seedling in pots to replant in a year or two

Rhapidophyllum hystrix

Sabal- several "who knows what" that volunteered

Ed in Houston

Wow, so many casualties...

[Hammer]

In SE Houston I have these palms growing all of which were planted after 1989. The coldest it has been since 1989 was 22F in 2011

Sabal louisiana

Sabal minor

Sabal mexicana

Syagrus romanzoffiana - 50% damage 2011

Phoenix roebelenii - 95% foliage damage, some damage to trunk, 2011 but recovered

Washingtonia hybrids

Rhapis excelsa - 10% of canes died 2011

Livistona chinensis - 40% foliage damage 2011

Acoelorraphe wrightii - no damage 2011!

Chamaerops humilis

Chamaedorea cataractarum - died 2011 and replanted, 30% of shoots died at 26 2014

Ravenea rivularis - newly palnted in 2010, died in 2011 and replanted, 70% foliage damage 2014 at 26 with ice

Chamaedorea hooperiana - died 2011, currently have seedlings in pots for eventual replanting

Chamaedorea seifrizii - died 2011

Chamaedorea radicalis

Arenga engleri

Chamaedorea woodsonia - seedlings in pots, waiting to get some size before planting

Chamaedorea elagans - most died 2011

Chamadorea brachypoda died 2011 - replanting 2 one gallon plants in spring.

Chamaedorea metallica - died 2011, seedling in pots to replant in a year or two

Rhapidophyllum hystrix

Sabal- several "who knows what" that volunteered

Ed in Houston

Wow, so many casualties...

I too am surprised. I always thought coastal Texas was very mild and favorable to growing palms.

[Ed in Houston]

Hammer,

"I too am surprised. I always thought coastal Texas was very mild and favorable to growing palms."

**

I have a mature infrastructure of 9a and hardier palms that have been fine for 25 years and experiment with understory 9b palms, mostly chamadorea. Then comes along a 9a winter and theunderstory experiment starts over.

Ed in Houston

[Hammer]

Hammer,

"I too am surprised. I always thought coastal Texas was very mild and favorable to growing palms."

**

I have a mature infrastructure of 9a and hardier palms that have been fine for 25 years and experiment with understory 9b palms, mostly chamadorea. Then comes along a 9a winter and theunderstory experiment starts over.

Ed in Houston

Thanks for sharing. I learned something today.

[Jimbean]

Long term, I believe much of coastal Texas is like northern Florida.

[Xenon]

Long term, I believe much of coastal Texas is like northern Florida.

Which part of northern Florida? Which part of coastal Texas?

[Jimbean]

Houston ~ Jacksonville

Corpus Cristie ~ Daytona Beach

Brownsville ~ Orlando

[Walter John]

From the Palmtalk dictionary the term "Zone pushing" was coined. To grow or attempt to grow the more tropical palm. Limited success rates achieved but fun trying. As you get older as a palm grower a balance or limit is found and species determined for your garden.

Zones are a very rough guide only from my experience,