Ah, ultraTROPICALS! Why are they so appealing? Because they're so ... beautiful or impossible to have, grow, or keep alive?

My definition is, anything that dies or gets severely damaged ABOVE 0ºC. What's your definition?

Do you grow them? Why or why not?

And if you do, please post your pictures!

They're ... the BEST palms in the world!

Here is a quick list of ultratropical species I cultivate or have in the past. These I consider ultratropical due to cold:

Deckenia nobilis

Nephrosperma vanhoutteanum

Cyrtostachys spp.

Phoenicophorium borsigianum

Manicaria sacchifera

Verschaffeltia spendida (borderline)

Some palms are ultratropical in the sense that they need excessive humidity all the time:

Licuala spp. like cordata, orbicularis

Pholidocarpus spp.

Pinanga spp. like veitchii

My take on ultratropicals is that they may survive one winter here, but not two.

I would say that most of the vegetation native to where I live would be considered ultra tropical.  I think most anything would die at below 1C, but some plants may make it in cooler temperatures above 0 C.  I have heard of people dying from exposure around here when the temperature dips below 20C.  But, then again this may be a local urban legend.

dk

Can't take the 40's F without risk of damage or death like Artocarpus altilis, Cyrtostachys renda etc.

I live in a very tropical place but it is very dry for about five months with Santa Ana type winds which make it seem like a convection oven.

My idea of ultra tropical palms are pinangas.kerriodoxa,iguanuras.My lowest temperature this year was 64F for a few hours one morning in Jan.

Don ,people do die here when the temperature drops into the upper 50s and get very ill at about 60F

                                                                           Scott

Pigafetta filaris....the definition of ultra tropical. It is so hard to grow past the winter in South Florida. Some collectors have been lucky to get some to survive in their yards, but not many. I swear I've seen some begin to turn brown, simply when someone walked past them with a large glass of iced tea.

Ryan

Daryl [palms for pleasure] has posted a pic of his Pigafetta growing down in sub-tropics . I have seen them growing up over 1000m in Sulawesi with Areca vestiaria [very cold nights ] , so they are not ultratropical at all .

(scottgt @ Mar. 16 2007,20:39)

QUOTE

I live in a very tropical place but it is very dry for about five months with Santa Ana type winds which make it seem like a convection oven.

My idea of ultra tropical palms are pinangas.kerriodoxa,iguanuras.My lowest temperature this year was 64F for a few hours one morning in Jan.

Don ,people do die here when the temperature drops into the upper 50s and get very ill at about 60F

                                                                           Scott

Scott,

My wife claims she would die if exposed to temperatures as cold as 17 degrees C.  She does not want to go to Montana in the winter with me.  I guess you could call her ultra tropical.

dk

(amazondk @ Mar. 17 2007,13:31)

QUOTE

(scottgt @ Mar. 16 2007,20:39)

QUOTE

I live in a very tropical place but it is very dry for about five months with Santa Ana type winds which make it seem like a convection oven.

My idea of ultra tropical palms are pinangas.kerriodoxa,iguanuras.My lowest temperature this year was 64F for a few hours one morning in Jan.

Don ,people do die here when the temperature drops into the upper 50s and get very ill at about 60F

                                                                           Scott

Scott,

My wife claims she would die if exposed to temperatures as cold as 17 degrees C.  She does not want to go to Montana in the winter with me.  I guess you could call her ultra tropical.

dk

I claim that too. The only problem is our winters. I just hate winter and snow and ice and cold. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Zac

By the way I have C. renda, Ph. borsigianum, and H. pinangoides. I plan to acquire more. As long as I can get away with it with them growing in pots.

Anything that suffers cosmetic damage in the 45-50F range.  I would include myself in this category.

Now the question is, were we like this before we got into palms? I wasn't, but I was also a child and snow meant being out of school. Now that I got into palms and tropicals, temps less than 50 are cooooooooooooold.

Zac

Zac,

I think most of us who are into growing palms (and other tropical plants) were probably interested in a warmer place from way back, i.e. before we became "palm affected". As you know, I grew up in Sweden, and was fascinated by places like the South Pacific and Africa going back to the age of 6-7. When my wife (who grew up in New York City) and I moved from Sweden to the USA more than 30 years ago we lived briefly (2 years) in NJ, before I talked her into moving to Florida. Having just arrived from Sweden, where the choices you have in the winter is to live in A) a cold place, or a VERY cold place, I just couldn't understand why people here in the USA would choose to live in places up north, when they could move to a place further south with much more pleasant weather!!

Bo-Göran

Bo- Thats true. I loved to read about jungles and rainforests as a child. And I have read the Swiss Family Robinson about a dozen times at least. Its only fitting, I guess.

Zac

If Ultratropical is just "too tropical" I understand what can mean to me: anything that gets, burned, defoliated or killed at 10 C / 50 F. Like breadfruit, cacao, pelagodoxa seedlings, Philodendron squamiferum...   It is usually the species from especially hot lowland tropics or especially even island tropics.

But! I have realized the term is misused, "ultra" is "beyond": Look here:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Ultratropical

Ul`tra`trop´ic`al

a. 1. Situated beyond, or outside of, the tropics; extratropical; also, having an excessively tropical temperature; warmer than the tropics.

(bgl @ Mar. 19 2007,22:16)

QUOTE

...why people here in the USA would choose to live in places up north, when they could move to a place further south with much more pleasant weather!! Bo-Göran

I think people in rich countries are slowly but massively migrating toward better climates. It is happening. In the USA there is already a (bi)coastal distribution of population, and an "empty" center. In Europe, it is not so for obvious reasons, but we are seeing a flow of people towards the shores of the Mediterranean. The housing boom of coastal Spain and France is fueled by people coming from the North. The trend will possibly be mantained during the next 30 years and spread to the other shores of the Mediterranean sea.

(Carlo Morici @ Mar. 19 2007,19:49)

QUOTE

If Ultratropical is just "too tropical" I understand what can mean to me: anything that gets, burned, defoliated or killed at 10 C / 50 F. Like breadfruit, cacao, pelagodoxa seedlings, Philodendron squamiferum...   It is usually the species from especially hot lowland tropics or especially even island tropics.

But! I have realized the term is misused, "ultra" is "beyond": Look here:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Ultratropical

Ul`tra`trop´ic`al

a. 1. Situated beyond, or outside of, the tropics; extratropical; also, having an excessively tropical temperature; warmer than the tropics.

(bgl @ Mar. 19 2007,22:16)

QUOTE

...why people here in the USA would choose to live in places up north, when they could move to a place further south with much more pleasant weather!! Bo-Göran

I think people in rich countries are slowly but massively migrating toward better climates. It is happening. In the USA there is already a (bi)coastal distribution of population, and an "empty" center. In Europe, it is not so for obvious reasons, but we are seeing a flow of people towards the shores of the Mediterranean. The housing boom of coastal Spain and France is fueled by people coming from the North. The trend will possibly be mantained during the next 30 years and spread to the other shores of the Mediterranean sea.

I found the image below on population density in the USA as of 2000.  I don't believe there is so much of a migration to warmer climes as people going or staying where work is.  And, there are other factors for the majority of the population than warm weather.  The U.S. does not have an empty center, but has an empty west which it always has been.  Not that there has not been a lot of growth across the sun belt, there has.  But, there has been a lot of growth in other areas with less warm climates as well.  That does not mean that people do not retire to warmer climates.  That they do in many cases.  For years one of the main customers of domestic U.S. airlines cargo services in  Florida has been shipping bodies of retirees back north for burial.  

As shown in the image the main population center is the strip running from Chicago to New York.  And, now with the prices of real estate on the both costs from north to south many people can not afford to move unless they go to cheaper places inland and colder.  Except maybe for parts of Texas.

Here on the equator at 30 meters above sea level in the humid tropics ultra tropical is just the way it is every day.

dk

(Zac in NC @ Mar. 19 2007,16:46)

QUOTE

Now the question is, were we like this before we got into palms? I wasn't, but I was also a child and snow meant being out of school. Now that I got into palms and tropicals, temps less than 50 are cooooooooooooold.

Zac

I see your point, I can relate to that!

I just couldn't understand why people here in the USA would choose to live in places up north, when they could move to a place further south with much more pleasant weather!!

Bo-Göran

I think there are people who like to see and experience change, like changing seasons, and some cold as well. Culturally they want their Christmas to be cold and with snow for example.

I have been living in an ultratropical climate the first 24 years of my life and I was kind of bored with it being hot all year long. I also wanted to experience some change, to the point where I wanted to experience a hurricane because that was about the only different weather event that I could experience overthere. Now that I'm into palms and have to deal with the possibility of freezing temps I really miss a warm weather all year long!

(Trópico @ Mar. 20 2007,16:25)

QUOTE

I think there are people who like to see and experience change, like changing seasons, and some cold as well. Culturally they want their Christmas to be cold and with snow for example.

I have been living in an ultratropical climate the first 24 years of my life and I was kind of bored with it being hot all year long. I also wanted to experience some change, to the point where I wanted to experience a hurricane because that was about the only different weather event that I could experience overthere. Now that I'm into palms and have to deal with the possibility of freezing temps I really miss a warm weather all year long!

Frank,

I agree with you that a lot of people, in the USA anyway, really don't have a problem with living in climates with 4 seasons or the like.  I know a lot of people move to my home state of Montana just for the mountains, snow, fishing, etc.  It is a wonderful place.  Just a bit cold for my likes anymore. What I see from the night time satellite photo I posted above is just how dense the population in the eastern USA is and that it is still for the most part along traditional population patterns.  Of course Florida has grown tremendously in the past 25 years or so.  As have other sun belt areas.  But, many people have also moved to other areas like the Midwest and Northeast.  I believe a large number of immigrants from Latin America, especially Mexico, and other warm areas around the world may actually go to the colder climates as much if not more than the warmer climates today.  They are going after work not weather.  

I love to go to places like New York, Chicago, Boston, Amsterdam and others as well.  But, I limit it to short trips.  And, I even like to go in the winter, why should I go when it is hot. I Have hot weather all the time the way it is.

Additionally I think that many people in the USA who are not linked to climate by love of palms or other warm weather plants may be thinking twice about living in Hurricane zones.  That does not mean they will move, but some will.  If even due to rising costs of insurance and taxes.  One thing I just found out the other day.  It is impossible to have a hurricane between 5 degrees North and 5 degrees South Latitudes.  Since there are no earthquakes and tsunamis around here in amazonia it makes it a pretty safe place away from natural disasters.  

dk