Hyophorbe indica and sun

[Hammer]

I have a Hyophore indica that I planted out this last May. It is under 50% shade cloth. It has been very happy in the shade. One day, the shade cloth was moved a little by some wind and one of the leaves got exposed to direct sunlight.It got FRIED!

I assume that some day this Hyophorbe will be like all the others in the genus and appreciate sun. But when? At what point are these cool looking palms ready for prime time?

[Josh-O]

Adam, where do you live in Ca? I'm 21/2 miles from the coast and I experienced the same problem as you did when I first planted out a nice HI "Green form" in my south facing front yard. It burned real bad for about two years before it grew out of it. It still on occasion when it get 90F here along the coast will burn just slightly. This is a palm you need to be patient with.

can you send us pic's of your palm??

[mcjdawg]

Any watering recommendations for when these are first planted. Have a 5gallon red and a green. The green hasn't pushed any new growth for the 5 months it has been in the ground. The red just one spear, with no sign of a new spear pushing.

[Hammer]

Yes, SoCal. Laguna Hills about 6 miles from the coast. My experience is that these need water. I have been aggressive with watering it.

I will post a photo or two later today. I need to get a couple individual specific shots.

[Daryl]

These definitely aren't anywhere near as sun-tough as H.lagenicaulis or H.verschaffeltii. Fortunately they are normally much faster growing. They grow very fast with lots of water, however, they are very drought tolerant. I planted three of these (green form) several years ago. Two survived, one got fried not long after planting and died a slow death, never recovering from the sunburn. The remaining two are now reasonably sized palms that flower and fruit. One of them still burns slightly on very hot dry days when we get our inland westerly winds.

[comic097]

These definitely aren't anywhere near as sun-tough as H.lagenicaulis or H.verschaffeltii. Fortunately they are normally much faster growing. They grow very fast with lots of water, however, they are very drought tolerant. I planted three of these (green form) several years ago. Two survived, one got fried not long after planting and died a slow death, never recovering from the sunburn. The remaining two are now reasonably sized palms that flower and fruit. One of them still burns slightly on very hot dry days when we get our inland westerly winds.

DSC_8474.jpg

Daryl, yours is fantastic mate, you've inspired me to get my 2 red ones in the ground.

Cheers Paul

[Daryl]

Thanks Paul this one had a huge Eucalypt fall on it two years ago...amazing that it lost all leaves and survived!

[Josh-O]

I wouldn't be so aggressive on the watering especially now that its getting cooler and our water needs have changed some. If your H. I are not pushing something is wrong? When did you plant them? Did you damage the roots during the planting process? How big were they when you planted them out? Did you put them in full sun before they were acclimated? Are you marking the spear with a marker of some kind to track the growth rate?? I know so many questions but all this maters.

Hyophorbe Indica has been a fast grower for me here in Carlsbad. I do get sun damage on the heat waves but its the santa ana winds that can really screw up this species real good.

her are a few pics of the one I have south facing in full hot sun. It took me 3 painful years to acclimate but the end result was totally worth it. It's now mature and been flowering a bunch. Notice on picture # 2 the bottom leaf got burnt from the last heat wave and the new fronds are in mint condition.

[KennyRE317]

i have one that looks horrible because it went right out into full all day summer and winter sun and right up on a wall. i was going to dig it out and pot it up but i figure it's had a year already and is starting to get a bit better hopefully one more year of looking like crap and it'll start looking better

[mcjdawg]

When did you plant them? Did you damage the roots during the planting process? How big were they when you planted them out? Did you put them in full sun before they were acclimated? Are you marking the spear with a marker of some kind to track the growth rate?

planted 5 months ago. No damage. 5gal red and whatever size the green was that you sold me

[Josh-O]

Justin-

hang in there. this species just takes longer than normal in my opinion to acclimate to the sun. If I remember correct you have a great climate near the beach. mark the spear with a sharpie with a straight line across the base of the spear to the petiole. from this point you can see the growth rate and keep track of it. make sure you write the date on the spear. its a great trick we all do. With some love and care it should do just fine.

Kenny-

sounds like yours might be passing the hump and may be pouncing with growth in the spring.

[KennyRE317]

Justin-

hang in there. this species just takes longer than normal in my opinion to acclimate to the sun. If I remember correct you have a great climate near the beach. mark the spear with a sharpie with a straight line across the base of the spear to the petiole. from this point you can see the growth rate and keep track of it. make sure you write the date on the spear. its a great trick we all do. With some love and care it should do just fine.

Kenny-

sounds like yours might be passing the hump and may be pouncing with growth in the spring.

hopefully, it's been planted for almost a year now i think and may not be a looker yet but it's still alive and pushed another frond out. as long as it withstood the summer and early fall heatwaves i'm not really sweating it. i'm probably the worse when it comes to acclimating and i take the plants and plant them right into full sun without any cover. since we had a real warm and sunny last winter everything burned as that's when i did most of my planting, i had a mess of a garden but by summer mostly everything was green

Edited November 17, 2014 by KennyRE317

[Hammer]

Here's a photo of mine. And no, I did not chop it down. Just a sideways photo. Very annoying.

It is a very happy palm in almost every respect except the sun sensitivity. It is very un-hyophorbe like, imo.

Josh I agree, easing up on water this time of year is not a bad idea. However, that is each species relative to itself in summer for example. Again, relatively speaking and in my experience, indica seems to appreciate a lot of water. The H. indica relative to my bizzie aren't even close in terms of water appreciation.

[Josh-O]

Hammer, yours looks absolutely flawless. How much sun does it get a day? I'm guessing the photo was taken mid day since theirs lots of shade? Nice job!!

[Sunnie]

I planted a small one recently and it gets a little sun. It's doing okay so far! It's the red form.

Edited November 18, 2014 by Sunnie

[Josh-O]

sunnie,whats you climate like in Brisbane?

[Sunnie]

sunnie,whats you climate like in Brisbane?

It's sub-tropical here. I just got these figures off a government website with July being the middle of winter and January the middle of summer. I don't know what our zone equivalent is.

JULY Mean maximum temperature 20.4 °C / 68.72 °F

JULY Mean minimum temperature 9.5 °C / 49.1 °F

JANUARY Mean maximum temperature 29.4 °C / 84.92 °F

JANUARY Mean minimum temperature 20.7 °C / 69.26 °F

We actually just had a 2 day heatwave with temps up to 41 °C (105.8 °F) and it still seems fine! I've got some shell ginger half protecting the palm but it still does get a little sun. It's only been planted for a couple of months.

Edited November 18, 2014 by Sunnie

[Bismark]

I planted these four indica's at the start of our winter in Brisbane, June maybe? I bought them in 140ml pots and was given the impression that they take full sun so full sun is where I planted them. They get baked around midday and still look great and have not missed a beat even in recent temps of 40 degrees plus. Although they are not holding many leafs they have put on good size.

[Sunnie]

I read that they prefer shade when young, but can take full sun as they get older. So that's why I put some shell ginger near it now to protect it a little but it will outgrow that eventually.

[Josh-O]

When it grows up it going to be a beauty!

[Hammer]

Bumping my own thread here to get back to my original question...

At what size do H.indica generally  acclimate to full sun?

I removed the shade cloth earlier this year and the leaves fried.  I assumed new leaves would better handle sun especially as the weather cooled this Fall.  The palm is still suffering from sun burn...yellowing leaf with regions of areas of dead tissue caused by severe sun burn build up over time.

Thanks!

[DoomsDave]

Come one, someone!

I'd like to know too, one less notch for the Death Camp . . . .

[Daryl]

My one in the photo above still got burned on really hot, low humidity days...you can see the damaged leaves if you look closely. If you live where it never gets very hot, and where there are no really hot, dry days, then it should be sun hardy...otherwise you will always get some degree of sunburn...these do need to be acclimatised into sun gradually as young plants and mine were all planted at about 3ft tall and 2" diameter...one of the three died from severe sunburn and subsequent decline...this one burns slightly on hot days and the other one in 80% canopy never burns...

 

[Tyrone]

These are really a rainforest species so they'll be happy to eventually emerge into a moist humid tropical atmosphere above the canopy in the tropics. High heat and dry air will burn them. I have two in my Perth garden that were under canopy with about 3m of clear trunk. The canopy had to be removed (40m high Eucalyptus) and they did burn a bit but they're OK the last time I was up there. Temps can get into the low 40's C. They looked better in dappled shade though. As Daryl said these won't take anywhere near the same amount of sun that a spindle or bottle palm will.

Surprisingly this species is doing well for me in part shade down here at 35S. They look pristine. I can't wait to plant the 3 I have out into a rainforest semi shaded area. A real surprise.

 

 

[Hammer]

Thanks Tyrone and Daryl.  I wondered if this was the case.  I am in Southern California and get those smoking hot dry days from time to time.

Seems like this palm will need more shade time to be truly happy.

Now the internal debate starts...

Do I put up shade cloth again, knowing it will have to come down soon due to the palm's height?  In the meantime hope that my KO grows enough to provide some natural shade.

Or do I let it fend for itself, hoping it toughen up and does not decline and die? ...knowing that the shade cloth won't be up long either way. 

Hmmm, decisions decisions...

[Hilo Jason]

I have had one of these in my garden (Fallbrook, 15 miles inland) for 6 years and I'm never happy with how it looks. It always burns even though it just gets filtered sun. But even filtered sun on a hot day tends to burn it. Plus it never holds more than 3-4 leaves. This spring I plan on digging it up and giving it to a friend who has more shade for it.  My place is just too small to deal with palms that refuse to do well after so many years.  

[Hammer]

55 minutes ago, Fallbrook Jason said:

I have had one of these in my garden (Fallbrook, 15 miles inland) for 6 years and I'm never happy with how it looks. It always burns even though it just gets filtered sun. But even filtered sun on a hot day tends to burn it. Plus it never holds more than 3-4 leaves. This spring I plan on digging it up and giving it to a friend who has more shade for it.  My place is just too small to deal with palms that refuse to do well after so many years.  

Jason, the more palms I plant, the more I agree with your view point. 

I just want my palms to look perfect.  So why bother planting ones that are guaranteed to look bad?  ...I will zone push one or two for fun and the challenge.   But beyond that, I want bullet proof. 

[Hilo Jason]

12 minutes ago, Hammer said:

Jason, the more palms I plant, the more I agree with your view point. 

I just want my palms to look perfect.  So why bother planting ones that are guaranteed to look bad?  ...I will zone push one or two for fun and the challenge.   But beyond that, I want bullet proof. 

I have had one of these in my garden for 6 years and I'm never happy with how it looks. It always burns even though it just gets filtered sun. But even filtered sun on a hot day tends to burn it. Plus it never holds more than 3-4 leaves. 

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I'm happy to give a plant some time and my place has evolved quite a bit over the past few years. Some palms have really surprised me in a good way and others like this Indica have let me down. Oh well, thankfully I have a few on deck ready to go that should do well. 

[Hammer]

1 hour ago, Fallbrook Jason said:

I have had one of these in my garden (Fallbrook, 15 miles inland) for 6 years and I'm never happy with how it looks. It always burns even though it just gets filtered sun. But even filtered sun on a hot day tends to burn it. Plus it never holds more than 3-4 leaves. This spring I plan on digging it up and giving it to a friend who has more shade for it.  My place is just too small to deal with palms that refuse to do well after so many years.  

Jason, the more palms I plant, the more I agree with your view point. 

I just want my palms to look perfect.  So why bother planting ones that are guaranteed to look bad?  ...I will zone push one or two for fun and the challenge.   But beyond that, I want bullet proof. 

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