What are these phoenix hybrids? (identification please)

[Sandy Loam]

Hello. Below I am attaching 4 different phoenix hybrids, but I honestly can't tell what hybrids they are. Can you?

I will post each photo as a separate post below so that anyone who wishes to comment can refer to the photo by its post number.

All photos were taken recently in a town called Gainesville in northern, Florida, USA.

[Sandy Loam]

First tree

[Sandy Loam]

Second tree

(sorry, you will need to click on all of these tiny photos to enlarge them)

[Sandy Loam]

Third tree

(several of same tree lining this street)

I am told that these are not pure CIDP.

[Sandy Loam]

Fourth tree

[Ben in Norcal]

I'm no expert, but the sparseness in the crown of all of these suggests a dactylifera contribution to me.

[The7thLegend]

I'd say 1 & 2 are predominantly Phoenix Dactylifera. 3 looks Dactylifera with some Canariensis and 4 looks mostly Sylvestris.

[Alicehunter2000]

The first 2 look to have Dactylifera blood....maybe some sylvestris. Same with 4th...Dact.

Number 3 look more sylvestris/canary....with sylvestris more prominent

[Sandy Loam]

I was wondering if number 4 had some phoenix theophrasti in it. (?)

Funny - somebody else just conveyed that they thought number 3 was a hybrid between phoenix canariensis and phoenix sylvestris too. I am starting to wonder if they are pure sylvestris because they start to look more like canary island date palm when much older. I have no idea.

Thanks for the thoughts on #1 and #2 also. Number 1 has me baffled because the trunk with all of those leaf bases is definitely not the typical phoenix dactylifera look. Number 2 at least has more of a dactylifera trunk.

Thanks, everybody. Keep it coming!

[tank]

Sandy,

1 and 2 are dactylifera that the city planted out in mass plantings across town 10 or 15 years ago as large trees. Not going to hazard a guess on the other 2 other than they look like hybrids.

[SanDimas]

Hello everyone.

Im posting pics on here in the hopes of

consolidating topics and getting better responses

to a thread I posted on the main forum.

I hope you like the pics...

The street is lined with canariensis as you can see in the background.

This tree is the only one with the thin trunk.

Ive never seen a mature rupicola.

Could this be a rupicola hybrid?

Edited October 16, 2014 by SanDimas

[Sandy Loam]

Wow, thanks Tank. I didn't know that phoenix dactylifera could have a trunk like the one in photo #1 (in front of Maude's cafe) with all of those leaf bases all the way up the trunk. I always seem to see Dactylifera with the bootless trunks, like the tall ones planted around Town of Tioga, for example. A "bumpy" trunk like post #2 is what I think of when dactylifera comes to mind.

Thanks.

[SanDimas]

Heres another one...

possibly a reclinata (due to the clump) x

possibly a dactilafera (due to leaf base pattern)

[SanDimas]

Heres another clumping reclinata x _____

or possibly a reclinata kept to a single trunk?

Any ideas ?

[Sandy Loam]

Hello SanDimas. I am no expert, but I am wondering if post #13 is a hybrid of phoenix reclinata x phoenix robelleni, but one that has been kept to a single trunk until those new suckers at the bottom appeared.

I can't even guess about #14.

Speaking of suckering, on an unrelated note I hould post a photo of a certain phoenix dactylifera growing in Tallahassee, Florida. It still doesn't have a trunk, but right now it looks like a suckering reclinata, except that the leaves are clearly Dactylifera. I was told that Dactylifera has a suckering look up until when it develops a trunk. How odd. You would have to see a photo to know what I mean.

[SanDimas]

Sandy

I wont argue with you since Im not

an expert either esp. on post 13.

Although from what were accustomed to in California,

date trees like medjhool (Dactylefera) do not sucker.

Allright Ill take a punch...let me see that suckering

date tree you mentioned.

Cheers

[Sandy Loam]

Here it is (photo below). Doth it not sucker?

[Sandy Loam]

Sorry, SanDimas, the photo doesn't really show the suckering very well, even when you click to enlarge it. Trust me-- there are several suckers growing at the bottom of it.

I have two other photos of this tree from different angles, but Palmtalk tells me "photo too large to upload" when I try to upload them.

Maybe it's not a Phoenix Dactylifera at all (?) Someone told me that it was, but I wouldn't know any better. Maybe dactylifera x reclinata?? ...but so silver that one would think theophrasti or sylvestris parentage.

It definitely has a "flat" leaf pattern. I mean, it does not have the alternating perpendicular/horizontal spines coming out in all different directions like a phoenix sylvestris or phoenix theophrasti.

Can anyone identify what this phoenix is? (photo directly above)

[Sandy Loam]

By the way, to make matters even more confusing, the phoenix tree pictured in post #5 has started producing about four suckers at the bottom of it, but you can't see them because I have been clipping them off. They will grow back, but at the time the photo was taken, I had removed them all.

That probably muddies the waters even more about the trees in post #5 and post #17.

[Sandy Loam]

SanDimas, I just got confirmation from "FloridaGrower" that the palm in post #17 above is a pure medjool date palm, even though it has a suckering appearance at the bottom of it. He says that somebody threw some medjool seed out the window of their vehicle and one seed took on that spot. It is now the palm in the photo in post #17 above.

"FloridaGrower" may add a comment to this post later on.

[Ben in Norcal]

My medjool suckers. I remove.

[Sandy Loam]

I have been emailing with "FloridaGrower" (his Palmtalk name) and he says that all medjool date palms sucker, but the suckers are removed for commercial purposes (which is why you never see a suckering medjool date palm).

[Matthew92]

Here's some I found in Punta Gorda, FL

[Matthew92]

#2

[Eric in Orlando]

The first 2 are definitely Phoenix dactylifera, most likely 'Medjool'. These are the palms that have become very common in the last 20 years for new commercial and street plantings. The 3rd, I agree, a P. canariensis/sylvestris mix.

[Sandy Loam]

...and yet another phoenix hybrid in the photo below.

Later on, I am going to post a photo of a tree that I saw recently in Gainesville, Florida. It was a strange phoenix hybrid that I could not identify. My best guess is that it was a cross between a phoenix theophrasti and a phoenix reclinata, but I have no idea. It was extremely spikey and ultra-silver/white, but was suckering like crazy at the base. The fronds were incredibly upright too, al pointing toward the sky. I hope to post a photo of it in the next month or two.

[Sandy Loam]

...and I forgot to mention that the photo in post no. 26 is phoenix reclinata x robelleni.

[Matthew92]

Here's another I just found in Cocoa Beach.

[Phoenikakias]

...and yet another phoenix hybrid in the photo below.

Later on, I am going to post a photo of a tree that I saw recently in Gainesville, Florida. It was a strange phoenix hybrid that I could not identify. My best guess is that it was a cross between a phoenix theophrasti and a phoenix reclinata, but I have no idea. It was extremely spikey and ultra-silver/white, but was suckering like crazy at the base. The fronds were incredibly upright too, al pointing toward the sky. I hope to post a photo of it in the next month or two.

Phoenix theophrastii does have a caespitose habit and some specimens sucker profusely...

[howfam]

Third tree

(several of same tree lining this street)

I am told that these are not pure CIDP.

Sandy Loam:

Remember this photo of seedlings I sprouted from those Gainesville palms in post 3. They're doing well and still growing with hybrid vigor. I still say they are P. sylvestris/canariensis. See also my posts of other phoenix hybrids under the thread " CIDP In A Park". / HOWFAM

[Sandy Loam]

Thanks HowFam. I look forward to seeing them when they grow larger and show their true shape.

Can anyone on PalmTalk identify the phoenix palm in the two attached photos? (Click photos to enlarge) As you can see from the close-up picture, it is suckering profusely at the base. I don't know what it is, but I suspect some type of hybrid.

Thank you!

[Ben in Norcal]

Looks like a messy reclinata to me...