Question about protecting palms from cold

[Hardypalms]

Hi

I am a little confused about protecting my palms in the winter from cold weather. I posted here opposed to the hardy palms section because there is hardly any activity over there. I have C9 lights ready to go but the confusing part is about covering palms. They said about not using plastic, ok I will avoid that but to use burlap to wrap the trunk but to not have the burlap touch the fronds???

Am I supposed to build a cage? I would like to avoid that.

Then if I use a regular cover to put over my palms what will happen if it rains ? Will the palm die?

Also has anyone tried "Freezpruf" a spray to help the palms during freezing spells?

Thanks

Patrick

[Ben in Norcal]

I'm interested to hear about folks strategies as well, but in my searches here I think I've established Freezpruf is pretty well useless as a freeze protectant.

You might want to provide more info about the palms you have, which will help people suggest appropriate strategies.

[Hardypalms]

I have 1 Sabal minor, 1 4 feet high windmill palm and 3 medium sized needle palms to protect. They have made it through 2 and 3 winters but I don't want to loose them during the real cold speels.

Patrick

[Pando]

Has anyone used bubble wrap? Air is supposed to be a good insulator, so I'm wondering about either wrapping it around the trunk, or using a bubble wrap tent for smaller palms.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Pando

[sashaeffer]

A lot of us up North used a plastic covering using a cage/fencing as well. We also use frost cloth or burlap to wrap the fronds of the palms together as well. Christmas lights, at times underground heat tape are methods we also use depending on size and species of palm.

Personally, with any of my structures I make sure I can take the top off on nice days as well has have a way to service the Christmas lights inside if they happen to quit during the Winter. Needless to say the more height the palm achieves there is a need for more vertical support for the cages.

[smithgn]

If you are to use plastic, make sure to lay a type of breathable fabric underneath the plastic. Cold plastic that touches any part of your palm will almost equally cause damage. So make sure you have something between your palm and the plastic like burlap or any one of those frost blankets.

I've used freezepruf once and didn't see any difference. I've read mostly negative reviews, but it's always worth a try if you want to experiment for yourself.

If you do cover your palms, make sure you have some sort of supporting structure if we get heavy snow and ice like we did last year. I made the mistake of covering one of my CIDP's but with the weight of the ice and snow, it pretty much crushed it. It takes a little creativity, but as long as you keep the wind out with a frost blanket and maybe wrap your palms with some of those lights, you should be A-Okay. I'm going the extra mile and have bought a small electric heater that will turn on and off intermittently throughout the real cold nights.

[Hardypalms]

Smithgn

What will happen if like you say I use a frost blanket and it rains?

Thanks

Patrick

[Ben in Norcal]

I am not clear if the plastic final layer helps, or not.

[JT in Japan]

Here in Japan, in the countryside at least, I see them using dried rice stalks (?) to insulate their palms and sensitive trees from the worst of the Jan-Feb chill... the hay-like tubular stalk that's left after the rice has been harvested. I've seen some trees wrapped with it for the winter. It's hollow, so probably acts like the bubble wrap, or plastic. I'm going to try to try it this year. Will post pics if so.

JT

[smithgn]

I've never had a frost blanket on any of my plants during rain... Although, I'm pretty sure it would shield against a drizzle, but not a downpour. Frost blankets allow the plant to breathe so there are little holes that I'm sure will soak through with water if it's a heavy rain.

I could be wrong, but I always thought having plastic wrapped around your palm completely shields it from wind and precipitation (water, frost, ice). I read that it's good to unwrap your palm once ever 3 days to allow it to "breathe" if you do in fact use plastic. I'm sure sashaeffer can give you more insight. I haven't used plastic, just the frost blankets.

[Ben in Norcal]

I've never had a frost blanket on any of my plants during rain... Although, I'm pretty sure it would shield against a drizzle, but not a downpour. Frost blankets allow the plant to breathe so there are little holes that I'm sure will soak through with water if it's a heavy rain.

I could be wrong, but I always thought having plastic wrapped around your palm completely shields it from wind and precipitation (water, frost, ice). I read that it's good to unwrap your palm once ever 3 days to allow it to "breathe" if you do in fact use plastic. I'm sure sashaeffer can give you more insight. I haven't used plastic, just the frost blankets.

Thanks. I am thinking my strategy (which I want to leave in place all December/January) will be an inner layer of frost blanket, C7 lights, and an outer layer of frost blanket. No plastic, since I don't want to be wrapping and unwrapping that all the time - too many plants need protecting. I am hoping that is enough to get my more sensitive Archontophoenix through. The average winter low is 30 degrees, so I just need a few degrees of safeguard to feel pretty good.

[Scot from SC]

I am a member of other palm boards; here is a link to a response that a fellow from your area (Atlanta) posted a bit ago. I hope that it is okay to post a link here: http://exoten.dyndns...0F72806E48D24B8

Alex knows his stuff, and he grows some beautiful in and out of zone palms and tropical plants.

[Hardypalms]

Smithgn

I thought plastic was a no no to protect palms?

Patrick

[smithgn]

I've never had a frost blanket on any of my plants during rain... Although, I'm pretty sure it would shield against a drizzle, but not a downpour. Frost blankets allow the plant to breathe so there are little holes that I'm sure will soak through with water if it's a heavy rain.

I could be wrong, but I always thought having plastic wrapped around your palm completely shields it from wind and precipitation (water, frost, ice). I read that it's good to unwrap your palm once ever 3 days to allow it to "breathe" if you do in fact use plastic. I'm sure sashaeffer can give you more insight. I haven't used plastic, just the frost blankets.

Thanks. I am thinking my strategy (which I want to leave in place all December/January) will be an inner layer of frost blanket, C7 lights, and an outer layer of frost blanket. No plastic, since I don't want to be wrapping and unwrapping that all the time - too many plants need protecting. I am hoping that is enough to get my more sensitive Archontophoenix through. The average winter low is 30 degrees, so I just need a few degrees of safeguard to feel pretty good.

I think frostblankets X 2 will provide that safeguard you need temperature wise. I wouldn't bother with plastic either, unless there's going to be some catastrophic snowstorm and extreme cold... One thing I'm not sure is how your plants will do covered up for so long without adequate sunlight? My only experience is wrapping up one of my palms for up to 3 days... I'm still learning as well so let me know how it works out for you.

Smithgn

I thought plastic was a no no to protect palms?

Patrick

From what I've read, plastic is a big no-no when the plastic itself actually comes into contact with the palm. Make sure to have a barrier, such as a frost blanket, between the palm and the plastic.

[Ben in Norcal]

I've never had a frost blanket on any of my plants during rain... Although, I'm pretty sure it would shield against a drizzle, but not a downpour. Frost blankets allow the plant to breathe so there are little holes that I'm sure will soak through with water if it's a heavy rain.

I could be wrong, but I always thought having plastic wrapped around your palm completely shields it from wind and precipitation (water, frost, ice). I read that it's good to unwrap your palm once ever 3 days to allow it to "breathe" if you do in fact use plastic. I'm sure sashaeffer can give you more insight. I haven't used plastic, just the frost blankets.

Thanks. I am thinking my strategy (which I want to leave in place all December/January) will be an inner layer of frost blanket, C7 lights, and an outer layer of frost blanket. No plastic, since I don't want to be wrapping and unwrapping that all the time - too many plants need protecting. I am hoping that is enough to get my more sensitive Archontophoenix through. The average winter low is 30 degrees, so I just need a few degrees of safeguard to feel pretty good.

I think frostblankets X 2 will provide that safeguard you need temperature wise. I wouldn't bother with plastic either, unless there's going to be some catastrophic snowstorm and extreme cold... One thing I'm not sure is how your plants will do covered up for so long without adequate sunlight? My only experience is wrapping up one of my palms for up to 3 days... I'm still learning as well so let me know how it works out for you.

For the most part, I am not wrapping the fronds. Most of the plants I will be wrapping are A. cunninghamiana, and they are close to safe here...I just want to safeguard them against an exceptional event given I now have some larger ones that I really don't want to lose. I may wrap the fronds for an exceptional event, but that won't be the case all winter. It's really about protecting the trunk and growing point, for me.

I may build some structures or use pop up greenhouses over some of my smaller stuff, in addition.

[smithgn]

Ah, I gotcha. That sounds like a good plan to me. And don't forget the roots; mulch like crazy. It never hurts.

[kypalmer]

This year I plan on doing a cage type of method for my palms. My plan is as follows:

1 - Mulch around the base of the palms.
2 - Apply some liquid copper fungicide to the bulb and younger fronds and tie them up.
3 - Put four 2x4s in the ground around each palm and possible one in the center to make a high point.

4 - Wrap each palm trunk with burlap.

5 - Wrap burlap around the 2x4 post enclosing the entire palm.

6 - Wrap shrink wrap around the 2x4 posts over the burlap enclosing the entire palm.

7 - Making one or two small small air slits in order to keep air circulation.

8 - Do the same with the high point, minus the burlap with one air slit to allow moisture/condensation to escape.
*** we do not have outdoor electricity where the palms are so this is the plan. last year we did a dome structure with only plastic protection and we had spear pull .......... BBUUTTTTT.....in the spring the palm lived and is better than before. so this year our plan is to do the above mentioned process.

[jfrye01@live.com]

A lot of us up North used a plastic covering using a cage/fencing as well. We also use frost cloth or burlap to wrap the fronds of the palms together as well. Christmas lights, at times underground heat tape are methods we also use depending on size and species of palm.

Personally, with any of my structures I make sure I can take the top off on nice days as well has have a way to service the Christmas lights inside if they happen to quit during the Winter. Needless to say the more height the palm achieves there is a need for more vertical support for the cages.

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These are the methods I plan to use. My dad is involved in oil refining and has access to many of those plastic barrels, and most of my palms are small enough that all I have to do is cut the bottom off and slip them over the top. For the larger palms (sabal and pindo), I might put two of these barrels end to end and slip that over them...not sure yet.

[kahili]

Hardypalms, I wouldn't bother to protect the palms that you mentioned that you have in the ground. I have all of those and have never covered them, even when it was 7 degrees last winter, or when it was 17 degrees at night for a wk at a time. But all of mine are pretty large and well established now, but I have never covered them, and I am sure we had plenty of cold spells when they were young.

But if you do want to cover them-here is what I do to L. chinensis, Butias etc. I have heavy frost blankets (any blankets will do) and I completely wrap the palm (after tying up the fronds) from the ground up. Then I cover with heavy weed block to stop the wind, going around and over the palm several times. If it is going to rain or snow, then I put plastic over that to keep it all dry. As soon as the temps heat up, I uncover. I have had to leave everything in place for a few days before, and I think once for a wk as it was so cold, but you don't want to leave them covered any longer than possible. I don't use any lights or heaters, and I have kept a L. chinensis alive and looking good with this method. But that is a zone 9 palm in my 7/8 zone so I will cover with at least the frost blankets anytime it goes to 18 degrees or so. Butias I usually cover around 15 degrees or lower. Two really large Butia I didn't cover last winter when it went to 7 degrees and the foliage all turned brown and had spear pull but in the spring I cut off the top down to a green spear and they both came back great!

[sashaeffer]

If palms are on the smaller size try an inverted Tomato cage. Since it would be tee pee shaped then simply wrap the outside with canvass painters drop cloth and plastic over that. A lot of people have their own success stories doing various things. We all however try and keep things

Inexpensive as we can

easily store-able in the off season

sturdy in high winds

serviceable if you run into a string of nice days and what your palm to get some air and some sun.

When palms get larger, then it takes a whole new way of thinking but it's key I believe to get a good solid root structure in the ground and to a degree a measure of required cold hardiness.

There is a palm/tropical plant nursery in Montreal Canada "Cocoanut Mike" who has many youtube videos of very large cold hardy palms he has in his yard and how he over winters them. It's pretty basic but works for him.

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

I have 1 Sabal minor, 1 4 feet high windmill palm and 3 medium sized needle palms to protect. They have made it through 2 and 3 winters but I don't want to loose them during the real cold speels.

Patrick

Patrick, all 3 of species should be fine in Atlanta...always. The windmill would need protection if the temps drop below zero f, but that's incredibly rare in Atl.