De-mystifying temperature adaptation of palms

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Why do some palms fare so well in Florida and so poorly in California and vice versa? Looking at the high and low temperatures for specific area only sheds very little light on what is going on. What really matters is how much time is spent in specific temperature bands. Doing some graphs on Weatherspark really illuminates what is going on in a superb way.

Let's start with the contrast between Miami and San Diego, that's a good way to illustrate the difference between the two.

Here is Miami:

And here is San Diego (Miramar):

Kentias love the 50-65F range, and there is plenty of it in San Diego. Copernicia love the warm to hot. These graphs say it all.

Now, lets look at a bunch of tropical climates:

1) Mahajanga, Madagascar:

Kailuha-Kona:

And now, you will understand why copernicia do fairly well in the California lower desert, but why some other tropicals are going to hate it, too much "hot" and even lots of "sweltering".

Palm Springs:

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

OK, now here are a bunch of tropical highland climates.

1) Tanna, Madagascar:

Quito, Ecuador:

And now look at San Diego and Mountain View again:

Mountain View:

San Diego:

Even if you head inland in the LA Basin, you're still mostly in green territory:

Burbank, CA

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Of course, none of these charts take into account humidity, which has a major impact on what can be grown. It's hard to grow any real tropical rainforest palm in full sun if humidity levels are low. But as far as temperature is concerned, these charts reveal quite a bit.

Now here's why a lot of palms don't grow so well in Texas. You just don't want to see any blue on your chart.

Panama City Florida has a bit of blue as well:

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Now here's why parajubaea and ceroxylon thrive along the coast in Norcal:

Quito Ecuador:

Monterey, CA:

[Zeeth]

Here's Sarasota, an example of the coldest climate that will allow coconuts to grow long term

[Kumar]

Thanks Axel..this is very informative.

[trioderob]

bottom line -

if you want to be comfortable - live in California

if you want palms to grow fast - live in the Tropics

Edited July 9, 2014 by trioderob

[displaced_floridian]

The graphs tell a lot about average temps and the amount of time in various temperature ranges. Another factor is in the daily temp range, where the temp may peak at 70*F for an hour at midday, but be in the 40-50 range during most of the day (typical of SoCal in winter)--or, like in S. Fla during winter, the temp may briefly drop to 45, but most of the day it is over 65.

I have 1 question: What do the percentages mean? They do not add up to 100%.

Edited July 9, 2014 by displaced_floridian

[Ken Johnson]

ah ha....nice work

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

The graphs tell a lot about average temps and the amount of time in various temperature ranges. Another factor is in the daily temp range, where the temp may peak at 70*F for an hour at midday, but be in the 40-50 range during most of the day (typical of SoCal in winter)--or, like in S. Fla during winter, the temp may briefly drop to 45, but most of the day it is over 65.

I have 1 question: What do the percentages mean? They do not add up to 100%.

The percentages are the actual percentages only at the time of maximum percent for that specific temperature band. You have to use a ruler to find where that max is.

What you point out is exactly the issue, the time spent at what temperatures. The highs and lows are really not that relevant. What is quite striking is that for all of Coastal California (Coast and Coastal Valleys included) the biggest swath is the 50-65F band. Whereas in Florida, it's the "warm = 75-85F" band that is predominant except in Winter.

[Alicehunter2000]

Thanks for including Panama City......home to the most symetrical banding.

[Tropicdoc]

Amazing how my hometown stacks up against coconut-land Sarasota. I'm looking good until that blue shows up.

[_Keith]

As the famous old saying goes, "there are lies, damned lies, and statistics." Or as another old saying goes, "forget averages, you have to build the church for Sunday." Doc, that blue you talk about it Easter Sunday in a palm's world.

[Tyrone]

It's all about the area under the curve of the desired heat range for the palm you are trying to grow. Putting an Aussie perspective on it, it's like comparing Perth to Brisbane. Perth is at about 32S and Brisbane is in the 27's. Winter average temps are only 2 or 3C different, BUT, Brisbane will always warm quicker from a cold night due to the suns angle. The time in the day that the temp sits in the desired range during winter is increased in Brisbane compared to Perth. Even though the extreme lows are about the same, Brisbane can grow things like Areca's, Coconuts, even Verschafeltia's with virtual ease compared to Perth. Perth has a more peaky min to max temp curve than Brisbane. Add humidity as well and the mins naturally come up and produce a flatter min to max curve.

Now come south down to Albany at 35S, and it's much more humid than Perth. The diurnal temp shift between min and max is less than Perth but it's cooler than Perth on average. The min to max curve down here in winter is almost like a lazy horizontal line that kind of goes up and down a bit.

[Gtlevine]

I think your graphs are interesting, but are more relevant for human comfort.

With palms it does not tell the complete story, but still interesting.

[PalmnutVN]

Another great comparison Axel. I do enjoy these posts you put up on here....

Indeed, I've noticed that the very same website has charts for humidity too.

Interestingly enough, I've suffered many failures here. I find it almost impossible to grow the cool, rainforest stuff not to mention, many of the cold hardy palms.

So, even if I can't grow my favourite palm Dictyocaryum here, if you'll permit it, I'll post the following with a humble, yet slightly smug, self satisfied look on my face

Bien Hoa, Vietnam

[Jimbean]

Brevard County

[Tyrone]

I tried that website and the closest station it had to me was Jandakot in the Perth metro area 400km away. A bit disappointing.

[edric]

Keep up the good work Axel, Ed

[Tropicdoc]

I think I get what you are saying Master Keithfucius.

[palmsOrl]

I think those charts are extremely insightful for giving an accurate snap shot not just of average or extreme highs/lows, but the overall time spent in all the ranges. I will say, Panama City does not spend a statistically significant enough percentage of time at or below 15F for blue to show up on the city's chart. That map is basically saying that Panama City spends 2-3% of the time in January at or below 15F, when actually the city may fall this low, maybe a night per decade (this is a wild guess). This past winter was much colder than normal and it stayed several degrees above this in Panama City.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

You are mis-reading the chart. The blue is 32-15F, not 15F and below. If there's purple on the chart, then you're in trouble. I see no "frigid" on Panama City's chart. You have to go pretty far North to see purple. Even North Carolina doesn't have purple because there aren't enough hours spent below 15F to show up on the chart.

These charts are good for seeing what temperature ranges palms will experience overall, but they don't tell the story when it comes to the occasional temperature extremes that can cause a lot of damage in a very short time.

[Tassie_Troy1971]

Awesome work Axel ! I find these very interesting indeed !

Would you please do one for Hobart

http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/averages/tables/cw_094029.shtml

[Zeeth]

Awesome work Axel ! I find these very interesting indeed !

Would you please do one for Hobart

http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/averages/tables/cw_094029.shtml

Looks chilly!!

[palmsOrl]

You're right Axel! I should have read more closely.

[Jimbean]

let's do more around the state:

Brooksville:

Fort Myers:

Tampa

Punta Gorda

St. Petersburg

St. Augustine

[Jimbean]

The Villages

Naples

Orlando

[Jimbean]

Perry

Jacksonville

Daytona

Fort Peirce

[Jimbean]

This may be a laymen's measure of comparable locations, say, Brownsville Tx to Orlando

[Zeeth]

This may be a laymen's measure of comparable locations, say, Brownsville Tx to Orlando

Some of those don't look right. Punta Gorda should be way warmer in the winter.

[Jimbean]

This may be a laymen's measure of comparable locations, say, Brownsville Tx to Orlando

Some of those don't look right. Punta Gorda should be way warmer in the winter.

You're right, Punta Gorda is showing up as cooler than Orlando. Maybe these are not as accurate after all. It could also be the particular weather station locations.

[Jimbean]

Brevard County

Sorry this got deleted, here it is again:

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

You can't just enter a city and expect it to show up. In many cases Weatherspark doesn't have the data and defaults to another location close by and will tell you. For example, Punta Gorda defaults to Fort Meyers, FL.

[Jimbean]

The weather locations are approximate, I checked them.

[Gonzer]

bottom line -

if you want to be comfortable - live in California

if you want palms to grow fast - live in the Tropics

Charts are for sailors. I concur with T-rob.

[displaced_floridian]

Axel:

What? No Blue for you in Mountain View? I thought at

your elevation you'd have more time < 32

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Axel:

What? No Blue for you in Mountain View? I thought at

your elevation you'd have more time < 32

Hours spent below 32F actually decrease with elevation from 500 feet to about 1400 feet, after that they increase again. USDA has the thermal belts in the Santa Cruz Mountains as USDA 10a to 10b. That's because those elevations are above the usual inversion layer associated with California radiative freezes but below elevations where the lapse rate drives temps below freezing.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

bottom line -

if you want to be comfortable - live in California

if you want palms to grow fast - live in the Tropics

Charts are for sailors. I concur with T-rob.

I don't picture you as the kind of fellow that would favor any sort of intellectualism. You seem like the type of guy that just wants a tool in his hand and cut the bull. With that being said, T-rob does reduce it to the level where even my toddler would get it. There is a certain elegance in that kind of simplicity that is quite appealing, but not very useful for those of us interested in the shades of gray in between.

[_Keith]

Not really, well kinda, almost related. Anyway it was interesting so I am sticking it here. The trend line for average winter temps is rising all across the country. Except in one place. Guess where.

[Xenon]

Here's Texas:

Houston

Galveston

Corpus Christi

Brownsville

McAllen