Did you know a palm who died of old age?

[Kumar]

I'm reading an informative article published in The Botanical Review, 1982 by Harold Moore and Natalie Uhl that suggests palms may potentially have unlimited growth...and that palm death die to senescence was poorly understood. it got me wondering whether I've ever seen a palm die due to old age and I'm afraid I could not think of anything other than 2-3 candidates of doubtful character (two royals and one borassus). All the others I've seen dead as adults were due to structural reasons or sudden death presumably by disease or parasites. I cant think of a palm getting feebler and feebler with progressively worse fronds. I'm not counting monocarpic palms here.

Has anyone seen or had a palm that died of old age? Are there photos ?

Edited June 26, 2014 by Kumar

[Zeeth]

I know of some royals that are over 100 years old in my area that are slowly dying one by one. We had a cold winter a few years ago that exacerbated the process. I believe that the royals planted by Thomas Edison's winter house in Ft. Myers are also dying of old age at a similar age.

[Tyrone]

Phoenix dactylifera are meant to last around 200yrs until they succumb to insect attack or just get weak. But I've never seen a 200yr old one to say for sure. By contrast Jubaea's are meant to last past 1000 yrs, the big Dypsis decipiens on Madagascar are meant to be 500 yrs old, but they would only be guesses at best as palms don't produce yearly growth rings, meaning that you'd need to know who planted it to accurately judge the age.

[DoomsDave]

Great question!

I don't know about "old age" but when Washies get too tall, they die because the cells in the lower part of the plant have to have such thick walls to support its weight that water no longer reaches the crown. Sort of like a really really slow heart attack, fluid can't get to where it's supposed to. The trunk just tapers off to a point as the leaves cease to form and the plant dies.

I also know a palm person who took out his Arenga engleri, because, after about 30 years, it lost a great deal of vigor and no longer regenerated itself. It looked like it would have died anyway.

[Kostas]

I saw two Syagrus romanzoffiana slowly pencil neck and die over the course of 3years. The palms seem to had reached their max height as the taller one(something like 20m tall or more) started pencil necking first and the second one which was about a year and something behind in growth height,started pencil necking too as soon as soon as it reached that height.

[Tyrone]

I think Ceroxylon quindiense is very long lived too and grows to around 200ft tall. It must have a very strong water pump inside it.

[Jimbean]

Sabals will continue to grow until their trunks get weathered away.

[Mike in Nelson]

A Livistona australis recently died here in a public garden. Think it was around 100 years old, but I'm not sure if it was old age?

[Gary]

there should be a number of caryota round that would have died after they finished their flowering circle.There are a couple of palms here in nz of more than 100yrs that died for no apparent reason recently-1 butia and 1 hedyscepe

[Geoff]

I have seen many Caryotas and Wallichia distichas die due to their monocarpism... this count?

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

The primary limiting factor as Dave pointed out is the capillary pump capability of a palm to be able to get water and nutrients up into the crown. One of the primary height enhancers for redwoods is that they are assisted by fog to feed the upper part of the canopy. In a dry climate, the redwood height capacity is significantly reduced. I bet that ceroxylon equally relies on a bit of humidity to assist with height.

As for why a clumper would die, I bet that has to be disease as opposed to natural death from age. After all, some date cultivars have been around for a few centuries, the clonally (from suckers) propagated cultivars don't just suddenly die all at once like bamboo does when all the identical clones flower at the same time.

[smithgn]

I've often wondered this as well. I know in my area there are some sabals on the statehouse grounds that I've seen in photographs since the 1940's. Another palm enthusiast around here says they've been around even longer, since the early 1900's. Either way, it'll be interesting to see how long they go during my lifetime. They are all above 30 feet tall.

[Kumar]

Dave, Axel - Your theory explains palm senescence well; now that you and others have mentioned it, I do recall that most of the very old tall royals I've seen start to have pencilled trunks -- but I can't remember noticing this for Cocos. The fact that ceroxylons exist proves that biomechanically it is possible to evolve tissue capable of ferrying water to heights far exceeding the height of most reported tall royals and coconuts (and many other palms don't get to be even as tall as tall royals). What would be interesting to know is what selection pressure forced Ceroxylons to evolve in this manner and why it did not exist for any other palm species.

[WestCoastGal]

As for the pencil necking, isn't that caused by man (poor pruning) and not therefore really related to the natural aging of the palm? Are there pencil necked palms in the wilds?

[Richard Booth]

The primary limiting factor as Dave pointed out is the capillary pump capability of a palm to be able to get water and nutrients up into the crown. One of the primary height enhancers for redwoods is that they are assisted by fog to feed the upper part of the canopy. In a dry climate, the redwood height capacity is significantly reduced. I bet that ceroxylon equally relies on a bit of humidity to assist with height.

As for why a clumper would die, I bet that has to be disease as opposed to natural death from age. After all, some date cultivars have been around for a few centuries, the clonally (from suckers) propagated cultivars don't just suddenly die all at once like bamboo does when all the identical clones flower at the same time.

Interesting.. Do you mean that the plants actually extract moisture from the air, or just that the high humidity reduces transpiration?

I heard that about sequoia before - that they do not like dry climates.

[Neel]

As far as washy's are concerned, I see hundreds of them around So Cal that look like they might be 100 years old. The street (Azusa Ave) before getting up to my area is lined with them and my friend's street in Pomona is lined with them as well (80+ feet tall) as I think his street might have been an orange grove many years ago.

But I've never actually seen one reach the end of it's life cycle. They just seem to keep going; even when the city over prunes most of the leaves annually, they are back with a full crown. So, I always wonder....when they die, do all the leaves just fall off and you are left with a very tall trunk that looks like a telephone pole or does the entire tree actually fall over??

[mnorell]

As far as washy's are concerned, I see hundreds of them around So Cal that look like they might be 100 years old. The street (Azusa Ave) before getting up to my area is lined with them and my friend's street in Pomona is lined with them as well (80+ feet tall) as I think his street might have been an orange grove many years ago.

But I've never actually seen one reach the end of it's life cycle. They just seem to keep going; even when the city over prunes most of the leaves annually, they are back with a full crown. So, I always wonder....when they die, do all the leaves just fall off and you are left with a very tall trunk that looks like a telephone pole or does the entire tree actually fall over??

Aside from the famous Washingtonia robusta planted at the Victorian cottage at the arboretum in Arcadia by Lucky Baldwin around 1880 and a few other area plantings from about the same time, I believe the oldest documented palms in the L.A. area are, according to a 1996 article by Don Hodel in Principes, a pair of W. filifera in a backyard near the Huntington, planted in the 1840s. If they are still there, that would make them about 170 years of age. Wow.

[Tyrone]

There's a Livistona chinensis in the Sydney BG which was planted in 1840. It was a gift to the gardens from Reunion Island of all places. It's not a huge tree either.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

The primary limiting factor as Dave pointed out is the capillary pump capability of a palm to be able to get water and nutrients up into the crown. One of the primary height enhancers for redwoods is that they are assisted by fog to feed the upper part of the canopy. In a dry climate, the redwood height capacity is significantly reduced. I bet that ceroxylon equally relies on a bit of humidity to assist with height.

As for why a clumper would die, I bet that has to be disease as opposed to natural death from age. After all, some date cultivars have been around for a few centuries, the clonally (from suckers) propagated cultivars don't just suddenly die all at once like bamboo does when all the identical clones flower at the same time.

Interesting.. Do you mean that the plants actually extract moisture from the air, or just that the high humidity reduces transpiration?

I heard that about sequoia before - that they do not like dry climates.

In the case of redwoods, the fog feeds the foliage with water, so it reduces the amount of water that has to be ferried up. I bet ceroxylon also extract water from the fog in the Mountains to get that tall.

As for roystonea and coconuts, I doubt they ever make it tall enough to reach the limits of their capillary pumping capacity. Hurricanes usually take them out first.

[Kumar]

In the case of redwoods, the fog feeds the foliage with water, so it reduces the amount of water that has to be ferried up. I bet ceroxylon also extract water from the fog in the Mountains to get that tall.

As for roystonea and coconuts, I doubt they ever make it tall enough to reach the limits of their capillary pumping capacity. Hurricanes usually take them out first.

Axel, many commentaries I read suggest that the redwoods do not take in water from the fog directly but rather the presence of the redwood branches and leaves condenses the fog which flows down and is in turn used by the tree. If that be so, a palm would not be very effective at precipitation of fog, simply because it has too little surface area to make any meaningful amount of condensation. What do you think.

Edited July 2, 2014 by Kumar

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

I have been noticing a few tall fortunai on the riverwalk in San Antonio that declined and are drying this year. The three that I have noticed in the past few years stop pushing fronds and have one last giant push of seed pods before dying. This act actually reminds me of banana trees. The latest fortunai that I have seen do this is right by the CVS on the river walk. Look up in and you will see what I am talking about. The others that I noticed to do this were further north past the Jubaea by texas land and cattle and the date palms by the bank.

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

Great question!

I don't know about "old age" but when Washies get too tall, they die because the cells in the lower part of the plant have to have such thick walls to support its weight that water no longer reaches the crown. Sort of like a really really slow heart attack, fluid can't get to where it's supposed to. The trunk just tapers off to a point as the leaves cease to form and the plant dies.

I also know a palm person who took out his Arenga engleri, because, after about 30 years, it lost a great deal of vigor and no longer regenerated itself. It looked like it would have died anyway.

Those big ole W robustas in California are the first examples I thought of too.

[Tropicgardener]

Where I used to live down in Bundaberg there is a grove of Coconuts some of which were planted back in the 1920s.........Some of the largest (arguably the largest in South East Queensland) and oldest have gone into decline and some have died or have been removed.

[Moose]

Never witnessed a palm's demise due to "old age" other than monocarpic species. Usually some other malady takes them here in Florida, the tall ones often succumb to lightning.