Let's See Native Hawaiian Pritchardia!

[Xerarch]

I'm interested to see some Hawaiian habitat photos of native Pritchardia or at least some nice specimen photos even if not in habitat. I've seen photos helter-skelter here on the board but I'd like a one stop shop and some additional scenes.

I'm interested in this because Hawaii is no unique and so remote, it is known for palms but there is only one native genus and it's members of that genus are in danger. I want to get a glimpse the original Hawaii, and understand what is being/has been lost. Thanks in advance!

[Al in Kona]

Most all of your questions about the native Hawaiian Pritchardia (Loulu) palms can be answered in Donald R. Hodel's book titled, "Loulu - the Hawaiian Palm", 2012, University of Hawai`i Press. Describes all the species, distribution maps, plus all color in habitat photos. Most everything there is to know about the Hawaiian Pritchardia is found in this great 190 page book.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

You want some Hawaiian pritchardia porn? Here it goes...

Unfortunately, the streets in Kona are overgrown with p. pacifica, which is a shame considering many of the pritchardia are endangered. The people to blame for that are the conservationists, who've been opposed to cultivating the pritchardia. They'd rather see them die in habitat than to have them propagated.

But here is a Hawaiian one: pritchardia beccariana in a private Kona garden:

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Pritchardia hillebrandii dwarf blue in Al's yard in Kona:

Al's Pritchardia blue moon!

Al's pritchardia glabrata

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

More glabrata, ohhh, ahhhh, what a beauty!

Pritchardia, er, hem, I mean Al's copernicia fallaensis, I had to sneak this one in:

[Donald Sanders]

Attention BRAHEA ALEX your quote "The people to blame for that are the conservationists, who've been opposed to cultivating the pritchardia. They'd rather see them die in habitat than to have them propagated."

Where are you coming from with such an outrageous statement. You obviously know nothing about the people here and what pritchardia's we cultivate. Please use a little more intellect and sensitivity with your lack of empirical observation of the pritchardias we are growing here in Kona. I am amazed that you feel "They'd rather see them die in habitat than to have them propagated. " You obviously do not know about all the pritchardia's in Kona, your statement is rude, insulting and not al all correct. Take a better look around the next time you are in Kona. You do not sound very smart with the way you refer to the palm people here in Kona. A fool from Santa Cruz telling us about the pritchardia's in Kona and says we rather see them die in habitat than see them propagated. You are dead wrong and totally outrageous.

I hope this post is not too strong for this very censored site!

Aloha, Donald Sanders

PS: nice photos, but you missed all of our native pritchardias that are all over Kona.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Attention BRAHEA ALEX your quote The people to blame for that are the conservationists, who've been opposed to cultivating the pritchardia. They'd rather see them die in habitat than to have them propagated.

Where are you coming from with such an outrageous statement. You obviously know nothing about the people here and what pritchardia's we cultivate. Please use a little more intellect and sensitivity with your lack of empirical observation of the pritchardias we are growing here in Kona. I am amazed that you feel "They'd rather see them die in habitat than to have them propagated. " You obviously do not know about all the pritchardia's in Kona, your statement is rude, insulting and not al all correct. Take a better look around the next time you are in Kona. You do not sound very smart with the way you refer to the palm people here in Kona. A fool from Santa Cruz telling us about the pritchardia's in Kona and says we rather see them die in habitat than see them propagated. You are dead wrong and totally outrageous.

I hope this post is not too strong for this very censored site!

Aloha, Donald Sanders

PS: nice photos, but you missed all of our native pritchardias that are all over Kona.

Good, I got a reaction, that was the point of my strong words. I don't mind being called a fool because I care more about seeing Hawaiian prichardias survive than to be treated politely. So I guess that puts you and me on the same side of the fence.

You are right in saying that my words were harsh, but the reason I say this is that there is truth to what I say, and if I say it with more sensitivity, no one pays attention. I want to see more native pritchardia in cultivation, and many conservationists do not. They claim that it's bad to do so because they will hybridize. They'd rather put a fence around pritchardia and won't distribute seeds. For example pritchardia viscosa. I know people who grow those in their yards in Hawaii and they've been threatened by conservationists.

So I missed all the native pritchardia that are all over Kona? If the majority of the plantings were not pacifica, then I would not have missed them.

[mike in kurtistown]

The problem isn't real conservationists. I'm a conservationist. Unfortunately, Axel's comment about speaking quietly is right on.

Restrictions on cultivating plants anywhere are formulated by bureaucrats and politicians, not by scientists who understand plant genetics or conservationists who understand the real threats to wild populations. It's hard to see how hybridizing in cultivation can threaten the wild populations.

[colin Peters]

P bakeri, Kuliouou valley Oahu

[colin Peters]

Pritchardia bakeri

[colin Peters]

Silver-brown underside of habitat leaf. Kuliouou valley Oahu. I have counted only 21 in our valley, in two groups. One bunch is on a vertical

cliff.

[colin Peters]

The KuliououOahu Pritchardia bakeri, is close to extinction. Am I an expert, no far from it, but I doubt there are too many people that have searched as extensively as I have for

them. And I doubt many others are as passionate as I, about them. The group in Dr Hodel's book is going to wash away. It is on top of a very large erosion area. Will it be tomorrow

or will it be another 100 yrs. Who knows, but every time I go up to check on them, I kinda say a prayer in hopes they are not at the bottom. There are probably some more in Niu Valley

which is the next valley one towards Diamond Head, but I haven't been able to rope up, and go down to them. I have seen them thru binoculars and tried to count them, but without looking

at the flowers and fruit stalks, it is hard to determine. And even then they might key out to P. marti. I know there are lots of rules and regulations about Pritchardia in habitat, but Kuliouou

bakeri will be gone someday if no one helps them. I know that there is seed collection on the Pupukea ones, on the north shore. There is absolutely no regeneration of them in our valley. Rats are the

blame, but then we brought the rats here, so we are to blame. It is our responsability to save them. I would much rather see them being planted out in highway projects and in private

cultivation than extinct. Just my two cents.

Edited June 26, 2014 by colin Peters

[ando.wsu]

Great photos all! I wish a palm of this genus could survive in Phx AZ. Even planted in shade. I would be complete.

[colin Peters]

Second group P. bakeri in Kuliouou valley on vertical cliff. These I will be able to harness up and rope down

to. When I get a chance.

[Xerarch]

Yes! thanks all for the photos, are there many tall ones in habitat?

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

The KuliououOahu Pritchardia bakeri, is close to extinction. Am I an expert, no far from it, but I doubt there are too many people that have searched as extensively as I have for

them. And I doubt many others are as passionate as I, about them. The group in Dr Hodel's book is going to wash away. It is on top of a very large erosion area. Will it be tomorrow

or will it be another 100 yrs. Who knows, but every time I go up to check on them, I kinda say a prayer in hopes they are not at the bottom. There are probably some more in Niu Valley

which is the next valley one towards Diamond Head, but I haven't been able to rope up, and go down to them. I have seen them thru binoculars and tried to count them, but without looking

at the flowers and fruit stalks, it is hard to determine. And even then they might key out to P. marti. I know there are lots of rules and regulations about Pritchardia in habitat, but Kuliouou

bakeri will be gone someday if no one helps them. I know that there is seed collection on the Pupukea ones, on the north shore. There is absolutely no regeneration of them in our valley. Rats are the

blame, but then we brought the rats here, so we are to blame. It is our responsability to save them. I would much rather see them being planted out in highway projects and in private

cultivation than extinct. Just my two cents.

Conservation should indeed involve both cultivation and habitat restoration and protection. But only relying on habitat restoration will never suffice.

[colin Peters]

Ya Axel I agree,

but habitat restoration seems almost impossible or pointless when the rats can access them without hinderance. Maybe baiting for the rats would control

them enough to have natural regeneration. I have been thinking on doing that, but then I have to consider the regulations, the chance of someone getting poisoned etc.etc etc.

Most Pritchardia here in cultivation have an abundance of ripe seed, but I have yet to see any on any of them in our habitat location. It might be due to the abundance of light down at

sea level compared to up on top of the mts where it has way more cloud cover and mist and rain. Also, could be due to fertilization etc. and the rats just cant keep up with the

production. Example at Koko head gardens, there are many ripe seed on the ground of Remota, Kaalae, and others, and many half eaten seed. Also, pigs are the next consideration.

To me the best bet for the nearly extinct species, is to have Pritchardia in cultivation, both private and public plantings. If they have a chance. To me it is worth the chance of cross pollination.

Just think if there was a group of 25 P. viscosa in a highway planting on a wet side of Kauai. To me that would give them a better chance of survival.

Here is a great example of highway planting. Blue hildebrandii. I know I have posted these before, but they are a good example

[quaman58]

Great pictures Colin, thanks. I know a lot of effort went into getting them.

[Kailua_Krish]

Pritchardia lowreyana (Koko Crater)

[Kailua_Krish]

Pritchardia aylmer-robinsonii (now lumped with Remota)

[Kailua_Krish]

Another with the same label but completely different appearance. Not sure what this one is

[Kailua_Krish]

Pritchardia schattaueri

[Kailua_Krish]

Pritchardia remota

[Kailua_Krish]

Pritchardia kaalae

[Kailua_Krish]

Pritchardia hildebrantii

 

[Kailua_Krish]

Better picture of a small P. kaalae

[Kailua_Krish]

The P. remota are quite beautiful 

[PalmTreeDude]

Nice pictures! 

[Zeeth]

Nice! I've got a P. schattaueri from one of the trees at Koko crater. They seem to be one of the slowest Pritchardias for me. Mine's twice the age of my P. beccariana but half the size.

[Kailua_Krish]

Yeah given the size of the ones here I can imagine that. I don’t think they are fast based on that. They are quite attractive though

One thing I was surprised by is the only native palm I see regenerating from seed in the garden is P. Remota. These must be really tough plants!

[Zeeth]

Given their habitat I'm not too surprised:

 

[Matt in OC]

Great bump!

I'd be curious to get some feedback on this excerpt from Hodel's book that suggests that conservation cannot be accomplished through cultivation. It appears to be pertinent to this important discussion.

Pritchardia.pdf

[Kailua_Krish]

I disagree with his sentiment. Foremost I have yet to find evidence anywhere that pritchardia hybridize, I’ve searched for any papers written on the subject and it seems that it’s pure conjecture. 

Additionally when there are only 3-12 left of a species (as is the case with P. viscosa and schautteri) you can have complete genetic diversity in cultivated plants of seeds are distributed from all.

If I’m remembering correctly wasn’t it the foxtail palm that was almost “protected” into extinction?

What bothers me the most is here in Hawai’i Pritchardia thurstonii and pacifica are widely used as street trees. There is no reason our native palms cannot be used instead other than pure ignorance.

[quaman58]

I see where Hodel is going with his conjecture. But as mentioned, by the time you're down to just a handful of individuals, it's not like genetic diversity is much of an option. So I've always hoped than humans can figure out how to maintain a viable natural habitat to be able to return individuals if needed. In which cultivation plays into that strategy. It reminds me of the California condor project here in SoCal. When it started, I was a bit dubious for a number of reasons, (like narrow genetics), but it's hard to argue with the success shown at reintroducing them to the wild. Time will tell whether the whole exercise was worth it. At least there was a habitat to still go back to. So I'll just keep growing Pritchardia for the sheer pleasure of growing them, hopefully doing some small thing in the Noah's ark of cultivation.

[Kailua_Krish]

7 hours ago, quaman58 said:

I see where Hodel is going with his conjecture. But as mentioned, by the time you're down to just a handful of individuals, it's not like genetic diversity is much of an option. So I've always hoped than humans can figure out how to maintain a viable natural habitat to be able to return individuals if needed. In which cultivation plays into that strategy. It reminds me of the California condor project here in SoCal. When it started, I was a bit dubious for a number of reasons, (like narrow genetics), but it's hard to argue with the success shown at reintroducing them to the wild. Time will tell whether the whole exercise was worth it. At least there was a habitat to still go back to. So I'll just keep growing Pritchardia for the sheer pleasure of growing them, hopefully doing some small thing in the Noah's ark of cultivation.

Through pollen analysis and such things (way beyond me) there is plenty of evidence that the native pritchardias were at sea level and in the lowlands of the Hawaiian islands and that the confinement to the upper mountains is a recent (past 2000 years) thing. The habitat is not gone, just changed. We're talking about planting a tree, not introducing a cougar into the city. The city of Honolulu did pass an ordinance to mandate planting of native plants on city properties by 2019 but with how ineffectual our government is we shall see. A perfect example of how nice these can look is the highway interchange on the windward side that has been posted here several times. Those blue pritchardia are stunning.

[quaman58]

Btw, great picture of P. kaalae. I was not aware that any Pritchardia had those "ribbon" like leaf tips. Looks like a Livistona in a way.

[Kokioula]

Pritchardia napaliensis, Ho'olulu Kaua'i

I have witnessed and been a part of conservation/ cultivation issues in Hawaii for 2 decades. Both sides rarely support each other unfortunately. Also, hybridization is a speculation with no evidence. 

[Kokioula]

Yes, rats eat Every seed produced in nature

[Xerarch]

1 hour ago, Kokioula said:

Yes, rats eat Every seed produced in nature

Is it known why this is a problem in Hawaii and not everywhere else on the planet since rats and palm coexist all over the place?  I believe rats are also suspect with regard to the extinction of the native palms of Easter island.