Green versus silver bismarckia

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Last year I ordered a packet of green bismarckia and silver bismarckia seeds and germinated them side by side. To my surprise, one green one popped first and now I have a healthy "green bismarckia" that is actually silver colored and on its third leaf. And the silver bismarckia isn't actually silver, but it's purple. Are green bismarckia silver when young? Or is this just a different strain of bismarckia? Or is it a hybrid between the green and the silver? Whatever it is, it was able to grow right through our Winter in my unheated greenhouse. The silver ones popped later, and are growing quite fast.

Below is supposedly what I got from RPS:

and this: http://www.rarepalmseeds.com/pix/BisNob.shtml

[amazon exotics]

my green's were green when small.

[sgvcns]

Axel

Seed is not a clone but the product of sex.

You can not have a hybrid between the same species.

Embrace the variation of seed.

Steve

[Zeeth]

I've sprouted seeds from under a green parent and they sprouted as silver, purple and green. I threw away all the ones that weren't green and now I have 3 left out of about 20 sprouts. I'm still watching those 3 though because one seems more green than the other two, but I want to wait until a few leaves develop to decide which to keep.

[Ben in Norcal]

So, if green and silver bismarckia seem to have the ability to come from the same plant, I wonder why the silver form is purported to be so much more hardy?

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Axel

Seed is not a clone but the product of sex.

You can not have a hybrid between the same species.

Embrace the variation of seed.

Steve

I was thinking more like hybridization between the two forms, silver and green as in cross pollination.

[bgl]

I don't have enough experience germinating Bismarckia seeds to have an opinion, but I'm thinking it might be the same scenario as for what many refer to as a maroon and a orange variety of Areca vestiaria, as if they are two distinctly different varities. Which is NOT the case. Genetically, it's one and the same. From a maroon parent plant you will get both forms when germinating seeds, but the majority WILL be maroon.. With an orange parent plant, the standard orange (with green fronds) will be in the overwhelming majority among offspring. Assuming this is also true for Bismarckias, that would confirm Zeeth's experience (above).

[LJG]

I don't have enough experience germinating Bismarckia seeds to have an opinion, but I'm thinking it might be the same scenario as for what many refer to as a maroon and a orange variety of Areca vestiaria, as if they are two distinctly different varities. Which is NOT the case. Genetically, it's one and the same. From a maroon parent plant you will get both forms when germinating seeds, but the majority WILL be maroon.. With an orange parent plant, the standard orange (with green fronds) will be in the overwhelming majority among offspring. Assuming this is also true for Bismarckias, that would confirm Zeeth's experience (above).

I never knew this Bo. Which leads back to benr's great question - why do they grow so different and have such a temperature range difference? Also, why would the habitat photos only show greens?

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

The green seeds I got are probably not from the wild but from cultivation. Chances are there is plenty of cross pollination from silver ones. But there is no reason to believe that the green one is genetically identical to the silver one. They are distinct forms of the same species with different adaptations.

All my silver seeds are purple. The green ones are glaucous green, no purple.

[_Keith]

Green Bismarckia. What's the point, just get a Sabal?

And before I should be judged, it's humor, just humor. Dammit Jim, I'm a doctor, not a palm freak.

[fiji jim]

Interesting topic for me as we have a mature female green bizi that is at present ripening seeds.

The only male around is a silber/blue from Madagascar highland silver palms.

[_Keith]

Are there grilver Bizzies out there? I'd like to see pictures of that one.

[Kris]

Green Bismarckia. What's the point, just get a sabal.

Even I feel like wise.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Kris and Keith, you'd both wouldn't say that if you saw one. For example, Walt posted these amazing pictures on palmTalk, I am re-posting them here: http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/38265-green-bismarckia-nobilis/. If you were to design a sabal that would look like this, you would need to take a sabal minor, (only sabal with the right leaf shape to match bismarckia leaf shape) make the leaves 5 x the size, make it trunking, and take some nice shiny polish to the leaves. There's no such sabal, so here you go, enjoy Walt's amazing green bizzie.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

For me, there is a very specific reason I went looking for a green bizzie: green bizzies are much faster than blue ones because there's no wax to interfere with photosynthesis. I also saw enormous green ones in Antanarivo, so I am thinking the green ones might be better for USDA 9b+ with cooler Summer climates. I didn't end up with a green one, but I am hoping for hybrid vigor. Either way I want to try a wide genetic pool of these until I hit one that's fast growing in cooler temperatures. Here are photos of my seedlings:

What's interesting to note is that both have the glaucous wax, but the green offspring is green under the white, and the silver offspring is purple under the white.

Silver seedling from green bizzie parent: note there is no red or purple, the only reddish you see is light reflection from rocks.

Purple from silver bizzie parent:

[Zeeth]

Your green seedling looks like some of the ones that I grew. It's distinct from the silver for sure, but I'm not sure what it'll look like as an adult. It might actually turn out green.

And yeah, green Bizzies are no Sabals, that's for sure. They have a S. minor leaf shape, with S. domingensis growth habit, but with the speed that no Sabal can match.

[Xenon]

The large lush green leaves with the waxy white leafbases are beautiful! Does anyone have the "Mayotte Island" form? They're supposed to be blue-green but with a softer look...

[Kumar]

And yeah, green Bizzies are no Sabals, that's for sure. They have a S. minor leaf shape, with S. domingensis growth habit, but with the speed that no Sabal can match.

Keith, could you elaborate please..are Sabals very slow growing ?

[Zeeth]

And yeah, green Bizzies are no Sabals, that's for sure. They have a S. minor leaf shape, with S. domingensis growth habit, but with the speed that no Sabal can match.

Keith, could you elaborate please..are Sabals very slow growing ?

It's not so much that Sabals are that slow, but Bismarckia are really speed demons in hot/humid climates.

[_Keith]

And yeah, green Bizzies are no Sabals, that's for sure. They have a S. minor leaf shape, with S. domingensis growth habit, but with the speed that no Sabal can match.

Keith, could you elaborate please..are Sabals very slow growing ?

It's not so much that Sabals are that slow, but Bismarckia are really speed demons in hot/humid climates.

Along with the fact, as I stated, it was humor. Really, nothing equals a bizzie in my eyes, even a green one. But with all that said, for those of us like me that can't grow one, I am settling for S. causiarum as a substitute.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Even in my cool Mediterranean Csb, bismarckia is faster than sabal. I am happy with the speed of all of my sabal, but sabal are pathetically slow.

[Kumar]

Even in my cool Mediterranean Csb, bismarckia is faster than sabal. I am happy with the speed of all of my sabal, but sabal are pathetically slow.

Oh no.. I have a palm from a seedling labelled as Sabal domingensis (which I affectionately call my American ambassador -- I like to generalise that all Sabals are from the USA). Its been growing very slowly but I have a sixth sense that it's extremely solidly rooted and in fine health (just v v v slow). 3 years and quite large silver strap leafs (3+ feet long). I'll write a thread about it some day with photos. Now back to the bizzies !

Edited June 12, 2014 by Kumar

[Tropicdoc]

Funny, Keith. When I saw the habitat pics of the green bizzies, I thought "those look a lot like sabals" But, as you said, Axel can grow some things we cannot so, why not grow a green Bizmarkia if you can.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Even in my cool Mediterranean Csb, bismarckia is faster than sabal. I am happy with the speed of all of my sabal, but sabal are pathetically slow.

Oh no.. I have a palm from a seedling labelled as Sabal domingensis (which I affectionately call my American ambassador -- I like to generalise that all Sabals are from the USA). Its been growing very slowly but I have a sixth sense that it's extremely solidly rooted and in fine health (just v v v slow). 3 years and quite large silver strap leafs (3+ feet long). I'll write a thread about it some day with photos. Now back to the bizzies !

Kumar, the only sabal with silver strap leaves is uresana. Dominguensis has green leaves.

[Walter John]

Kris and Keith, you'd both wouldn't say that if you saw one. For example, Walt posted these amazing pictures on palmTalk, I am re-posting them here: http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/38265-green-bismarckia-nobilis/. If you were to design a sabal that would look like this, you would need to take a sabal minor, (only sabal with the right leaf shape to match bismarckia leaf shape) make the leaves 5 x the size, make it trunking, and take some nice shiny polish to the leaves. There's no such sabal, so here you go, enjoy Walt's amazing green bizzie.

It's Wal not Walt by the way, on the other hand, you can call me anything you like, just don't call me late for dinner.

Having just returned after nearly a month away to the USA, my green bizzie has seemingly leapt in growth after an initial slow beginning. I'll try and get some up to date shots this weekend.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Hey Wal, sorry for the extra t, please post some pictures, I'd love to find out also where you got the seeds.

[amazon exotics]

I have both ( a green & silver ) in my garden. The Green is a faster grower and more robust. At a small size it was more cold sensitive.

[_Keith]

Funny, Keith. When I saw the habitat pics of the green bizzies, I thought "those look a lot like sabals" But, as you said, Axel can grow some things we cannot so, why not grow a green Bizmarkia if you can.

Well, this is not a green bizzie, but not a bad cold hardier substitute either. Be that as it may, if I could grow a green bizzie I would in a heartbeat.

[Stevetoad]

I don't know if sabal like santee or what but mine have been far from slow. Here's some shots. Both my sabal minor and casuarium were bought May 13 2011. Both planted in June 2011. Same plants today.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Those are some nice beautiful and healthy sabals. Slow is a relative term. I wonder how big a Bismarckia would be by now if planted at the same time from the same size.

Sabal are much slower than bismarckia at the small seedling stage. From seeing Gary Woods sabals, seems they also take a lot longer to trunk.

[Kris]

Dear Axel,

As you said both the bizzy ladies are beautiful. But what I noticed is that in our house a 3 year old silver bizzy at about 12 feet tall and trunk height of 3 feet attracts attention from guests who visit our house.

All stand beside it and gets themselves photographed with it.And say they have not seen anything like it. Though there are many other palms and cycad no one is attracted to it.

Since I have very little space in our garden. I want yo plant only flashy palms.

Love,

Kris.

[Tropicdoc]

Question: If the silver Bizmarkia is more cold tolerant, is it the white waxy stuff that protects it from frost?

[Stevetoad]

Those are some nice beautiful and healthy sabals. Slow is a relative term. I wonder how big a Bismarckia would be by now if planted at the same time from the same size.

Sabal are much slower than bismarckia at the small seedling stage. From seeing Gary Woods sabals, seems they also take a lot longer to trunk.

Like this. I planted this in 2011. Then dug it up and moved it about 8 months later. Here it is this morning

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

You moved it, I wonder if that set it back. But there is something to be said for causiarum's speed. Look at mine, shoe for scale.

[Stevetoad]

Moving it set it back for sure. It just about died and got all deformed. It's really only grew normally for the last year. Sandals lookng good.

[Walter John]

Hi Axel and everyone, here's how my green bismarckia is going, quite well I think. The seed for this baby came from a big green bizzie in Cairns.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

It's looking nice and healthy!

[Zeeth]

Here are my Bismarckia seedlings. I had two community pots, one of silver and one of green. I planted one of the silver seedlings and tossed the rest, but I still have the green community pot. You can see the difference between the silver seedling and the green seedlings at this stage. I ripped out and tossed all of the ones that were not completely green from the green community pot, which was about half of them. I'm not sure what those would look like as adults because I've never seen one that was intermediate, but I didn't want to bother with growing them if they wouldn't be completely green.

Silver seedling

Green seedlings

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Your green seedlings look like mine. There is still some bloom on them, but I guess that is expected. Same purple coloring on the silver one as on mine too.