I hate ants! RIP My Little Fijian Dwarf Coconut Palm

[HorsesnPalms]

So I go out yesterday to re-pot many of my palms and plumerias to gain more drainage. I had put my prized Fiji dwarf coconut outside under a shade tree where I have almost a hundred other palms growing a couple weeks ago. It had been on my lanai and was still in its original pot that I got it in. It was growing out the bottom and had two big brown leaves. and a couple of tiny green leaves coming out. I go to dump out the pot and its covered in ants! I tugged on the leaves a tad to ensure it was still alive and they pulled out and ants came out with it by the thousands. The ants killed my beautiful palm. I was so upset, I cried..... a lot. I loved that palm so much. None of my other coconuts or palms have any signs of ants. I just don't get it. This was the only Fijian dwarf that I had.

My family doesn't really understand my "palm" affection, so I had to share it with someone who would understand this loss.

[DoomsDave]

Ouch! Sorry to hear.

Hmm.

Ants are almost always an effect, not a cause of palm troubles. I think the ants in your plant came long after the palm was in distress.

Look at the deceased more closely. Were the ants on the palm itself, or just in the dirt surrounding the roots? I've had many an ant colony in my potted palms, and they usually don't hurt the plants nearly as much as they bother people.

Ants sometimes "cultivate" scale or aphids, or at least make it harder for their natural enemies to keep them in check. That usually doesn't kill a healthy palm.

In any case, don't let one death stop you. Get another coconut, and a spare. If one dies, you'll have the other. If they both live, plant one and give the other to a friend. (I've done that and I have many palms and many friends.)

I realize that space can be a constraint, but palm nuts find myriad ways around the space problem.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Oh we feel your pain. Nothing like checking on a prized palm only to watch it decline or already toasted. I left a nice licuala dasyacantha sitting in full sun after watering and fertilizing it, I just forgot to put it back in the shade house. I did that when it was 103F. Of course, when I cleaned up in the evening I discovered the poor little fella, completely toasted. The spear pulled the next day, and it was a complete goner, off to the compost pile.

This issue comes from having too many palms in pots. I've got that problem right now.

[Kumar]

Sorry to hear about your palm, I know how it feels. I doubt, though, that ants were the cause of the death since there are millions of ants of every single shape and size over here and other than termites trying to build on the outer stem of established palms (or chew the fibres from coconut palms) I have never heard or seen damage due to ants. Like Dave said, they are more a nuisance to the palm-owners who go to check regularly rather than the palms.

In a separate coincidence, while pruning the dead fronds of my golden dwarf coconut yesterday, I discovered that one old skeletal frond that had escaped removal was acting as a highway for a long stream of very busy ants. Even more strange was the fact that the skeletal tips of the leaflets had become a spider sanctuary with thick webs and the remains of their victims. I was so unnerved by all this that I wasted no time to remove the offending frond; today I saw no ants.

[Zeeth]

That's unfortunate, but as others have said, it likely had problems before you saw the ants. Why did you have it in the shade? Coconuts tend to do poorly in shade, so usually it's recommended to put them directly in full sun.

[amazon exotics]

Sorry to hear! I know the feeling, I just found ants in our one and only variegated foxtail. We had a wild hog root around the palm looking for food. When I smoothed the ground, I found the ants. The palm has been declining for awhile, now I know why.

[Silas_Sancona]

Sorry to hear H&P, Agree with Dave that the ants probably weren't the reason for the palm dying but, since moving back here, I have made a couple interesting observations about one species of Ants in particular..

First off, when I lived up in Largo, I often suffered the wrath of Imported Fire Ants both at work and at home whenever I moved stuff around on my patio. Here in Bradenton, I have yet to encounter any and have a sense that Fire ants have been replaced by Big Headed Ants which luckily don't sting. Like Argentine ants, a California nuisance, Big headed ants will invade any and everything both inside and outside the house.

Outside, they quickly took residence in roughly 80% of my specimens, especially anything that sat directly on the ground. After awhile, id notice stuff that had a tendency to dry out a lot faster than others. Didn't think much of it until repotting some plants and noticing that a large amount of soil had gone missing, specifically around the root crown. A lot of times, ants would pour out of these pots as well. In some cases, enough soil had been removed that when id water, all of it went directly down the center of the pot leaving most of the container bone dry.

Since laying gravel and 20yr weed fabric, there are less ants and less mining away of the soil in those pots. In other areas I have yet to landscape, still have issues with these ants. I also noticed that this species will carry Scale insects and aphids away from plants id drench with Neem Oil and deposit them on other plants nearby.

As for stuff id repotted, they seem to leave them alone, especially in pots where the soil contains less sand and is chunky. Of all the _ ants one can deal with here in FL, besides Fire Ants, I hate these the most.

As far as Fire Ants go, I have heard that they too can destroy plants, and have some sort of connection to the native Wax Myrtle here.

In any event, totally know the feeling of loosing a prized palm/plant specimen.. Just lost a very special King Palm seedling last week. Yes, the Ingred. Anyhow, If you cross pathes with another FDC, grab a couple.

-Nathan-

[DoomsDave]

  On 6/9/2014 at 9:39 PM, Silas_Sancona said:

Sorry to hear H&P, Agree with Dave that the ants probably weren't the reason for the palm dying but, since moving back here, I have made a couple interesting observations about one species of Ants in particular..

First off, when I lived up in Largo, I often suffered the wrath of Imported Fire Ants both at work and at home whenever I moved stuff around on my patio. Here in Bradenton, I have yet to encounter any and have a sense that Fire ants have been replaced by Big Headed Ants which luckily don't sting. Like Argentine ants, a California nuisance, Big headed ants will invade any and everything both inside and outside the house.

Outside, they quickly took residence in roughly 80% of my specimens, especially anything that sat directly on the ground. After awhile, id notice stuff that had a tendency to dry out a lot faster than others. Didn't think much of it until repotting some plants and noticing that a large amount of soil had gone missing, specifically around the root crown. A lot of times, ants would pour out of these pots as well. In some cases, enough soil had been removed that when id water, all of it went directly down the center of the pot leaving most of the container bone dry.

Since laying gravel and 20yr weed fabric, there are less ants and less mining away of the soil in those pots. In other areas I have yet to landscape, still have issues with these ants. I also noticed that this species will carry Scale insects and aphids away from plants id drench with Neem Oil and deposit them on other plants nearby.

As for stuff id repotted, they seem to leave them alone, especially in pots where the soil contains less sand and is chunky. Of all the _ ants one can deal with here in FL, besides Fire Ants, I hate these the most.

As far as Fire Ants go, I have heard that they too can destroy plants, and have some sort of connection to the native Wax Myrtle here.

In any event, totally know the feeling of loosing a prized palm/plant specimen.. Just lost a very special King Palm seedling last week. Yes, the Ingred. Anyhow, If you cross pathes with another FDC, grab a couple.

-Nathan-

Now that's a thought!

In other words, the ants' digging caused the soil to drain too fast and the plant dried out?

[palmaddict]

The last year has taught me an important lesson. Here is San Diego we have Argentinean ants with no known natural enemy. I have found the ants to not kill palms, but what they do accomplish is to protect aphids which feed on the softer parts of palms and especially love young tender plants. The ants protect the aphids as they feed off "honeydew" which the aphids secrete as they feed on the palms. The honeydew is a food source for the ants so they will defend the aphids to the end. Once you have aphids and the honeydew this encourages the growth of very destructive fungi. It is these fungi that can be so damaging to young palms and are in my judgment the cause of death.

It is like falling dominoes, get rid of the ants, the aphids are not protected, the aphids are subject to consumption by other insects, no honeydew is secreted and the fungi pretty much disappear. I have got rid of the ants and my fungus problems are 10% of what they were.

patrick

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

  On 6/9/2014 at 10:28 PM, palmaddict said:

The last year has taught me an important lesson. Here is San Diego we have Argentinean ants with no known natural enemy. I have found the ants to not kill palms, but what they do accomplish is to protect aphids which feed on the softer parts of palms and especially love young tender plants. The ants protect the aphids as they feed off "honeydew" which the aphids secrete as they feed on the palms. The honeydew is a food source for the ants so they will defend the aphids to the end. Once you have aphids and the honeydew this encourages the growth of very destructive fungi. It is these fungi that can be so damaging to young palms and are in my judgment the cause of death.

It is like falling dominoes, get rid of the ants, the aphids are not protected, the aphids are subject to consumption by other insects, no honeydew is secreted and the fungi pretty much disappear. I have got rid of the ants and my fungus problems are 10% of what they were.

patrick

I agree, ants farm not only aphids but they also farm fungus.

[Silas_Sancona]

Dave, While an unlikely cause in HorsenPalm's circumstance, it is possible.

In the case of Big headed ants, I have noticed that once they start nesting in a pot, the soil level drops, sometimes to the point that it is as if the plant is being slowly lifted out of the soil itself. I have a Texas Mtn. Laurel that, no matter how often it got water, would always dry out much faster than other stuff I have next to it in the same sized containers. Flooding it one day, I noticed all the water get sucked directly down the center of the plant, much the same way plants might drain if there are Gophers or Moles tunneling around them. Probing around a bit, I noticed that a large section of that root ball had been hollowed out and was full of ants. Investigating further around the yard, I came across other stuff with the same issues.

For awhile, before I laid down Gravel or Weed mat, id also notice these ants building termite-like dirt mounds up around the crown of certain plants. Before I moved it, they had managed to create piles of soil up around the stem/leaf stalk bases of my large Aloe "Hurcules.

As far as actual damage to the roots, can't really say but if they manage to carry enough soil away, through the entire depth of a given container, its possible for a plant to dry out since most of the water doesn't get to the finer roots. Again though, these are just observations I have made.

As far as Fire Ants, I think they can do actual damage to root systems, if I remember correctly.

-Nathan-

[DoomsDave]

Ah fire ants.

Who [expletive] cares about [expletive] roots? Those stings EXPLETIVE hurt, expletive, expletive. etc.

[HorsesnPalms]

Thank you everyone for you input. The ants that were coming out of the coconut were small. There was also what looked like maybe termites?? They were mixed with little white things that were going nuts. The palm was doing great up until I put it outside. I put it out there because I have several other coconuts that are growing there about 3 ft tall. Those are going great as its where they sprouted from pots. Its not 100% shade during the day about 50%. Never had a problem like this before. The roots looked great, but the interior of the coconut after pulling the fronds out was gooey and full of ants and those little white things.

I am on the look out for another Fijian dwarf, they aren't that easy to come by. Its just said.

  On 6/9/2014 at 8:19 PM, Brahea Axel said:

Oh we feel your pain. Nothing like checking on a prized palm only to watch it decline or already toasted. I left a nice licuala dasyacantha sitting in full sun after watering and fertilizing it, I just forgot to put it back in the shade house. I did that when it was 103F. Of course, when I cleaned up in the evening I discovered the poor little fella, completely toasted. The spear pulled the next day, and it was a complete goner, off to the compost pile.

This issue comes from having too many palms in pots. I've got that problem right now.

I totally have done this! It didn't kill it off but burned the leaves something terrible. This is why I keep them in partial shade, so if I screw up they don't pay the price.

For my palms outside I tried the black landscape fabric and the weeds just burst right through that. To remedy this for where I keep my palms. I get about 30 feet of the brown plastic that Lowe's has at checkout in the garden area. Its used for keeping debris off of your car. But no weed has gotten through this stuff and hey its free! It also helps keep the bugs and ants back.....the Fijian coconut was sitting on the edge of this plastic. I could slap myself. <shakes head>

I have seen

  On 6/9/2014 at 8:58 PM, amazon exotics said:

Sorry to hear! I know the feeling, I just found ants in our one and only variegated foxtail. We had a wild hog root around the palm looking for food. When I smoothed the ground, I found the ants. The palm has been declining for awhile, now I know why.

Oh man! Sorry to hear that. I have started putting Amdro granulated ant killer in and around all my palms. I had such a big bag I covered my entire yard this evening. I have had it with ants. Florida is seriously an ant capital.

[mnorell]

IMHO ant killers are truly a racket foisted on the public. The Florida keys are one big ant hill and in my personal experience they colonize only neglected, unwatered soil masses. You will never exterminate them. I deal with them all the time and they simply Indicate plants I've not watered properly. The ants are almost certainly not killing your palms. I would just about wager that they colonized the empty cavity of your already dead seed and the dry soil surrounding it. On the plus side they aerate soil at each rain. Just make sure your plants are hydrated, save your money and time in re the ant killer and do the ecosystem a favor at the same time by not spreading poisons in your landscape.

[Silas_Sancona]

Or perhaps, as Im planning on doing, try Diatomaceous earth. They also seem to avoid stuff id soaked with Neem Oil, at least for awhile.

-Nathan-

[Z4Devil]

Very sad to hear of your loss, Robin. Guess, the most of the palm-enthusiasts are on your side.

Well, to be honest ... imho no animal with more than 4 legs has a business in my palm pots or on the palms, excepted bees, bumblebees and ladybirds.

All jokes aside, you are looking for a Fidji coconut? What about a Samoan dwarf or golden Malayan dwarf(have 2 of them).

The Samoan dwarf has germinated 2 weeks ago, and look --> photos are of today. All nuts I have bought from Jeff in Hawaii.

Keep my fingers crossed for you.

[DoomsDave]

Get another and try again!