A. alexandrae vs. A. cunninghamiana

[Sabal Steve]

Recently, I've developed an interest in King palms. I find the nuances between the species interesting - like Sabals. For years, I thought that all king palms were the same. It seems that the two most common types in So Cal are cunninghamiana and alexandrae. However, I see many king palm vareties that appear to be a blend of both? Is there much variation within the two species?

I see alexandraes that have thick, uniform trunks and crownshafts with a large lump on the bottom and off to one side. These seem to have upright fronds for the most part.

I also see cunninghamianas that have thin trunks and gracefully drooping petioles - almost like a kentia.

But, then I see many that don't seem to particularly look like either...

Pictures?

[Tropicgardener]

A. cunninghamiana is generally more uniform in its appearance (although there are some populations with peculiarities around). The trunks are generally slim and smooth whereas A. alexandrae quite often has a thicker stepped trunk. This isn't always the case though as A. alexandrae is quite variable from location to location. The local variant that occurs in rainforests around here seems to have quite a slim trunk and arching fronds. Some of the very old emergent plants have crowns of arching fronds that appear to be shorter and quite bunched.

On the subject of hybridization.....yes it does happen and in South East Queensland (territory of A. cunninghamiana) you see hybrids occur in cultivation where both species are grown. Interestingly though up here in North Queensland we have locations at medium to high altitude where both species intermingle and there is no hybridization occurring this is despite both species flowering at the same time. Down here in the lower altitudes within the tropics A. cunninghamiana does not occur, it is only found in the higher altitude rainforests.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Steve, there's a lot of variance amongst even individual species of archontophoenix. I grow three different types of archont. cunn. - 'illawara', 'home depot', and 'Inge Hoffman'. They look very, very different from one another and have very distinct growth habits and climate adaptability. The 'Inge Hoffman' comes from high elevation seed and this variant not only is more frost hardy, but it also grows much better as a whole in my climate. I also grow a. alexander that I got from the Hoopers, it's very different in form than the Alexander I saw in Hawaii. The ones that have naturalized over there all have a little of a golden color to them that the Hooper's form doesn't have.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Bump - let's save this thread from drowning in compost. Inquiring minds want photos of various archont. forms. I know the Aussies are busy speed-dating palm gardens in Southern California and Hawaii, but someone in Ca and FL could post.

[Sabal Steve]

I intend to add some pictures, hopefully within the next few days.

[KennyRE317]

I just planted a triple Archontophoenix and I'm hoping it's a cunninghamiana or a maxima as I don't have either of those planted, if it's not one of those 2 than i'll be pretty disappointed but I planted it because there's a super shallow clay pan at the bottom and I could just get a 15gal hole and it was super super slow draining (hole took at least 2 days to drain so I figured if something's going to grow there it's an Archontophoenix

[Gtlevine]

I have Alexander, Purpurea and Maxima planted. I also had Cunnigham at one point. The big difference is the stepped trunk on Alexander as said, but the Alexander also seems to stay green on the trunk much further down from the last leaf base.

Gary

[Sabal Steve]

I have Alexander, Purpurea and Maxima planted. I also had Cunnigham at one point. The big difference is the stepped trunk on Alexander as said, but the Alexander also seems to stay green on the trunk much further down from the last leaf base.

Gary

Your "beatrice" is a really sharp looking grouping. If I remember right, that is one of the A. alexandrae vareties? The green trunks looked amazing, and had nice, pronounced "stepping" to them. Given the spacing of the growth rings, it looked like a fast grower, but then again, everything grows well there!

[Sabal Steve]

I think that there is another nice "beatrice" at the San Diego Botanical Gardens. Perhaps near the pond in back?

[Jubaea]

If anyone has pictures of different Archontophoenix species planted next to each other, I would be interested in seeing them. I have seedlings dug up from under my neighbor's Archontophoenix planted. I think they are A. cunninghamiana and they have survived without too much damage into the mid to upper 20's.

[Sabal Steve]

A. alexandrae?

[Sabal Steve]

A. alexandrae?

A. cunninghamiana.

[Tropicgardener]

Steve, 1st photo is A. alexandrae

2nd photo is hard to tell

3rd photo is A. cunninghamiana

4th photo grouping is A. alexandrae.

[Sabal Steve]

Steve, 1st photo is A. alexandrae

2nd photo is hard to tell

3rd photo is A. cunninghamiana

4th photo grouping is A. alexandrae.

I agree with the second photo, I just shot that at night for fun.

I'll get a few more shot of that group in the fourth picture. With a more level perspective/angle, and with less blow out with the sun.

[steve99]

A.Cunninghamiana is quite common in my area and when I saw this thread yesterday I thought I must go out and take some pics of them in habitat in the National Park only a few kilometres from home.

[steve99]

[steve99]

[doranakandawatta]

Thank you Steve,

Pictures of the habitat are always interesting and your photos are great.

[steve99]

Here's on more.

[Sabal Steve]

Very cool Steve! To me, they seem to look much more frail than A. alexandrae.

[steve99]

They probably appear frail because of their stretched leaves and slender trunks, which I'm sure is due to the dark gloomy location where the pics were taken - not much sun in there. I'm sure in full sun they would have a more robust appearance. Even so, I've never liked Bangalow's ( as we call them ) I dont like the way their leaves tilt side over. I much prefer Alexanders.

[Oliver K.]

Your habitat pics suggest A. cunninghamiana do well in partial to full shade. Is that true? I always assumed Archontophoenix palms require a high light intensity, and therefore they are hardly suitable as indoor palm.

[Tropicgardener]

Archontophoenix simply don't the like dry conditions that most interiors offer............In their natural rainforest habitat they are generally found in light to heavy (sometimes very heavy) shade under the canopy. Young plants will 'stretch' up for the light but always do better where there is a break in the canopy.

[sonoranfans]

Here is an alexander triple(one is behind anothers trunk), a myolensis, and a maxima. You can see the stepped trunk on the alexander. the myolensis is the most attractive, IMO, but all are beautiful palms. the maxima is the fastest growing, fastest palm I have grown so far. It went from a scrawny bare root seedling 6" tall to 10' overall in a little over 2 years. I also have purpurea, but no bangalows. alexandre shown were one gallon size 3 years ago and are now around 12' overall. These are water lovers, but easy care palms in my yard.

[Gtlevine]

Here is my alexander trunk and crownshaft.

[KennyRE317]

the ones I have in the ground are .....

alexander - bought from a small (largest of the three was about 4'-5') triple 15gal 2 years ago from a big box store, the largest of the 3 is about 12' now and last year for about 8mo it got very little water and still grew but you could see the fronds growing much closer together. as soon as I put down some fertilizer and started giving it a lot of water the spacing of the fronds literally jumped from 2" apart to about 5" apart and starts throwing spikes one after another having 3 at any given time. it's in a wind tunnel between my house and the neighbors, our houses are angled and this plant is right at the small point so it gets a lot of wind and looks good. mostly shade throughout the majority of the day but is starting to grow into the sun, it has no overhead canopy but the houses provide a lot of shade but bright open skies. this one always looks good

myolensis - planted as a one gal that just opened it's first pinnate frond, so it's small.

Beatrice - planted at the same time as the myolensis and I think the new spike might be pinnate. both got a lot of sun through our warm winter and early spring, just recently started putting some potted stuff in front of them to give it some dappled shade

purpurea - 5gal that I haven't planted out yet, I don't have any canopy so I'm waiting for some of the plants in the ground to get a little height before planting this guy since I heard they don't like as much sun but I've had this in a few hours of direct sun and didn't have much of an issue, some burnt tips but wasn't as bad as I imagined

illawarra - planted as a 1gal but it was already 5' tall, put it directly in full sun with absolutely no shade in the warm/hot fall and got a lot of wind since it's right on the backwall which backs up to a somewhat main street. has some burnt ends but also not as bad as I expected.

mystery one - I was given this one last year as a 3' or so triple, has been in full sun for as long as the sun's up starting from last summer and up until planting. this guy will continue to see full sun throughout the rest of its life, it only got watered in the bucket once a week even when it gets to 100°F and has always been a nice steady grower in less than ideal conditions, this one is looking real good even in those conditions. left it in the bucket (2/3 filled with dirt) and I was going to lift it up and put more dirt into it but just decided to put it into the ground because the hole I had dug has a very shallow clay pan and the water barely drains from this area. if something's going to grow in this area it'd be an Archontophoenix. I'm really hoping these end up being maxima or cunninghamiana, tuckeri, or maxima since I don't have any of those 3 planted, don't have room for anymore Archontophoenix species, and want to limit my garden to as few duplicates as possible.

so far I've found Archontophoenix to be pretty damn easy to grow here and will take a lot more sun, while still looking good, than people give them credit for. I planted these guys for the sole purpose of future canopy, bulletproof for my area, and if I keep them in the ground they'll be the top layer of the garden

[comic097]

Snapped a pic of this Alex this morning