IPS and Education

[Bilbo]

I seem to recollect that it is part of our duty to Educate or have I missed  the plot?

We have many new guys interested but perhaps put off by our usual banter (I am just as guilty as the rest) and of course the names we commonly use for palms.

It must be confusing I think . . .

As I said we must educate cos that is what we are supposed to be about I reckon and I think thats somewhere in our constitution - or have I lost the plot?

Maybe we could have a special Educational slot for New Guys or something to make palm conversion somewhat easier for Newbies???

There is such a wealth of knowledge here . . .

lets not waste it.

Regardez

Juan

[Kim]

I'm not clear on where you are finding fault.  When I look at the list of topics on the current page, I find many palm questions listed by their latin names, a couple about palm pests with accurate nomenclature, a few regarding germination, seedlings, and importation problems, as well as questions about palms appropriate to certain climates, and even a latin lesson.  My only quibble would be with the inappropriate insertion of apostrophes, a lost cause on the web, apparently... ::

IMO this board is very educational, although I have learned not to take everything at face value.  Misinformation does float around, sometimes unchallenged.  Or sometimes an authority who really knows his stuff will be challenged by some yahoo, that's kind of annoying.  

I have been educated here, and schooled a few times as well!

[PalmGuyWC]

Juan,

I totally agree with you...there is to much palm slang and jargon used on here, but I don't think bad habits are going to change. What most of us don't realize, much of what's said on here is open to the world wide web and our quotes are for all to see, not just us palm people.  Perhaps it should be cleaned up a little bit.  I've been shocked to see photographs of my palms on other web sites, and some commercial sites, and even quotations from me.  Thats the reason I have a dictonary and Genera Palmarum next to me.....and I still screw up. I never won any spelling bees!

Maybe a simple solution would be to have an easy to find "Jargon/palm slang" section. Part of the problem is botanical names are so hard to spell.....and pronounce. The taxonomist sure don't make it easy for us simple people, and then the names keep changing. Gosh, it took me awhile when I first got on this site to figgure out what CIDP meant.

Lets face it, Queen palm is lots easier than Syagrus Romanzoffianum, and before that it was Arecastrum Romanzoffianum.  That's kind of a mouth full. I always have trouble with Nannorrhops...how many n's and r's to put in there.....and I always want to add an "h".......in the wrong place.

In this go, go world, I don't think we are going to change our bad habits, so maybe a glossary of palm slang would be helpfull. <----Ahh, is that one or two L's?

Dick

[MattyB]

...a time to laugh

...a time to cry

...a time to teach

...a time to fry

???

[bgl]

Jon,

You ARE correct - it is in the IPS By-Laws to educate. But Kim and Dick bring up important points. The IPS Forum is not a vehicle for the sanitized and organized distribution of information - it's a vehicle for the exchange of experiences, ideas, comments, whatever...and with many people of varying levels of writing skills and experience in palm growing involved and active here it's bound to continue 'as is'. The new IPS website, on the other hand, will be a much more more organized source of information. Dean made an interesting comment some time ago: "the IPS Forum is like an ongoing palm society meeting". Which I think is very appropriate. Everybody's talking and voicing their opinion. Some of the information is excellent, some may not be, and some may even be completely irrelevant. But that's what makes this place interesting!

Bo-Göran

[doubravsky]

I agree as well... some of what makes this forum so interesting is the personalities that come out in the posts.

There have been times when I did not know the slang term or acronym, but one only has to ask the question to get a quick response. I remember puzzling over "CIDP" for a while...

[PALM MOD]

To expound a little on the other comments.

It will become more apparent with time that this Forum is just a part of what will be a newly designed IPS website. This forum is for the instantaneous exchange of ideas, experiences, and photos in a loose, fun, and sometimes imperfect manner.

The main site will eventually have many more features, including those geared toward education.

[Walter John]

Will there be homework ? or detention ?        ???

[paulgila]

can you be "held back" a grade?

[Breadfruit Bill]

HAHAHA, double posts!  I know how to edit!  maybe we should give a class on computer literecy for current users!   ???

[Breadfruit Bill]

If we skip school to play in the trees do we get punished or praised? :cool:

[bgl]

YES to all of the above!

[paulgila]

i can see myself writing"i will not buy palms that are too tropical thinking that they will magically grow in MY yard"

500 times on the blackboard after school like bart simpson.

[gsn]

(Bilbo @ Mar. 02 2007,08:54)

QUOTE

We have many new guys interested but perhaps put off by our usual banter (I am just as guilty as the rest)

Me thinks the last 5 posts in this thread, were what Mr. Bilbo was refering to as much as common palm names!

Guilty as charged!!

[Breadfruit Bill]

Sorry Juan, I think we are proving your point here...  I think Dean had it correct when he said that this is just like one never-ending palm society meeting...  We are just carrying on and enjoying our common interest...  A newcomer would certainly have to weed through our BS to find useful info...  but the info is here!  This thread has been more than a podium from which I brag about my palm addiction, members have offered advice and all seem to be genuinely interested in helping each other.  Hopefully the newbie (like me) would feel welcomed by the casual atmosphere...  I think if ya'll were too snotty and know it all, loring over my head like you were superior palmgrowers (even though most of ya'll probably are), it would make me stand-off ish and possibly not interested in an otherwise fascinating topic; PALMS!

[doubravsky]

As a school principal, I believe I will have to confiscate every offender's palms!

Form a line... 5 gallon pots on the left, 15 gallon and above on the right......

And when you turn over your palms, I expect you all to think about what you done and why it is wrong....

[PALM MOD]

Dave,

I think I qualify as the principal here. And since I have enough palms, I am confiscating all of the offender's tikis, beginning with yours. And further more, if you don't stop misbehaving, you will have to spend all your time in Kona carving tiki's for my "school" (garden).  

[rubyz]

(PiousPalms @ Mar. 02 2007,15:37)

QUOTE

Sorry Juan, I think we are proving your point here...  I think Dean had it correct when he said that this is just like one never-ending palm society meeting...  

I believe there's another "problem" as well:

most posting members seem to be fairly provincial in their interests. This manifests itself in the disproportionate number of responses to certain topics. For example, someone submitting a post concerning a frost-hardy species might get 50 responses, whereas someone submitting a query about a tropical species might get only two responses, and this can be quite disheartening.

    I'm not suggesting that posting should be regulated by quotas! However, I feel that many could afford to broaden their interests a wee bit, and at least offer any  info  to  those who request it.

    As for the banter: this is a universal phenomenon in all forums, and I think it's basically unavoidable and harmless, so long as it stays within certain limits. Banter is usually most rampant among cliques of members, and while it can be great fun for those within the clique, it makes others feel like perpetual outsiders.

I happen to love smoking Cuban cigars, and was a member of three cigar forums. I quit them all because of the excessive banter and cliquishness.

[PALM MOD]

Reuven,

While I generally agree with your assesment of forums, banter, and cliquishness, there is something unique about this board. That is, because we hold many meetings, both regional and international, many members here have met one another personally. Aside from these meetings, many members have visited one another's gardens while traveling. In that sense, the banter you hear is more the banter of friends as opposed to what you normally experience on other forums between people who have never met.

And the sure way to include oneself in the fun is to attend the meetings, the biennials, and when traveling visit with other members in their gardens.

[rubyz]

(IPSPTModerator @ Mar. 02 2007,23:59)

QUOTE

we hold many meetings, both regional and international

Great!

    Please inform me when the next meeting of the IPS will take place in Israel.

    Seriously though, your points are well taken, and I am pleased to see that members are obviously dedicated palm lovers.

[bgl]

Reuven,

Israel may not happen for a LONG time... The IPS is looking for a place with a variety of palms when deciding on Biennial locations. Thailand in 98, New Caledonia in 00, French Riviera in 02 (OK, maybe that wasn't such a great choice, even though I certainly enjoyed it!), Hawaii in 04 and Dominican Republic in 06.

Next is Costa Rica in April 2008. The one in 2010 will in all likelihood be decided at the IPS Board meeting in May 2007. Front runners, I believe, are Thailand and Brazil.

Bo-Göran

[PALM MOD]

(rubyz @ Mar. 02 2007,12:24)

QUOTE

(IPSPTModerator @ Mar. 02 2007,23:59)

QUOTE

we hold many meetings, both regional and international

Great!

    Please inform me when the next meeting of the IPS will take place in Israel.

    Seriously though, your points are well taken, and I am pleased to see that members are obviously dedicated palm lovers.

And Rueven,

While I doubt any meetings of anykind in Israel any time soon, if you ever make it to Hawaii, California, Florida, Australia, etc, there are many members with gardens to visit in all tropical and temperate locations.

[garrin]

I agree that this board is a great place for education, but there is a lot of misrepresentation (spelling!) of the palm names.  "Rhapis" comes to mind and is often even pronounced with the "h" in the wrong place --there is no "f" sound in the middle, it is a "p".  Those of us with some experience could correct, but I once asked a poster if he meant one thing when he had put in an unintelligible spelling, and I was severely berated on this public board by him for "putting him down" when all I asked was a question.  There are excellent palm reference books available for this type of information;  I think the message board should remain just a conversational discussion medium and we shoould perhaps best overlook errors which often are just typos.

[doubravsky]

Dean I wholeheatedly agree about the friendship... I have visited gardens now in Hawaii, San Diego, La Habra, and made several new friends. It really is something that makes this board special.

Now about the tiki thing.... hmmm... "sentenced" to stay in Kona and carve tikis? Now that's a punishment I could get on board with!

[Moose]

i can see myself writing"i will not buy palms that are too tropical thinking that they will magically grow in MY yard"

500 times on the blackboard after school like bart simpson.

[_Keith]

Bueller,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Bueller,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Bueller

[LilikoiLee]

I was scrolling to the bottom of this thread when I saw the post from Pious Palms(I think) which closely resembles my opinion:

There are many posts that I do not have enough palm experience or knowledge to understand but they alert me to things that will help me take better care of my palms and expand my knowledge.

I also like the humor. There are very few situations in which humor is inappropriate (death and catastrophes, for example.) Even when I don’t get the joke I enjoy the fact that others do. It makes Palm Talk more human and something like a family. I’m just a distant cousin at this point, but I’m working toward being part of that family.

For those of you who for various reasons who don’t like some of the posts you can quickly leave any post you don’t like and move on to the another one.

One thing that is difficult for me is being left out of the jargon that many of you have developed over the years. I can tell that is a lot of fun for those of you who have been here a long time and that is wonderful. But it is very hard for us beginners who don’t have a clue what you’re taking about and therefore can't learn much from the post. (I believe this relates very much to the value of PT as a deliverer of knowledge.)

As a 'family' of palm people it behooves all of us to share our knowledge in a way that can be be understood by everyone. It would really help if the users of the jargo put the real word or name in parentheses after the slang word. If you did that I would piece by piece make a dictunary of palm slang that hopefully Dean could place somewhere for everone to use. I am sure there is a long list of people who would really appreciate it.

Lee

[LilikoiLee]

Sorry - I just accidentally skipped this space, left it blank, and wrote my post in the next space. Hope you will read the next one. Lee

[Cindy Adair]

Good idea to make a PT (Palmtalk) "dictionary"...

[Kim]

I think lots of us are just lazy typists. Which is easier: king or Archontophoenix cunninghamiana? Oops, depending on where you are that might be piccabeen. Or is it bangalow? That's why I made a plea long ago for naming a palm with the correct latin binomial at the beginning of your thread or post; after that you can call it anything you want.

[LilikoiLee]

I think that everyone who has posted here voiced one or more good points. A while back I posted a desire to have the users of 'palm slang' identify what the slang referred to. I don't think that this should be a requirement on posts, but I would really appreciate it if those people who want to share their knowledge would define the term or provide the correct name of tbe palm in parentheses. It doesn't matter if you don't know the latest name of the palm. That kind of information is on websites like Kew.

Posts about specific palms lose educational value if the reader doesn't know what palm being discussed is. I haven't see much slang used for scientific terms, which is OK because people who don't understand a particular term have multiple resources to find its definition. I've sometimes found definitions in a standard dictionary. I don't mind having to look up scientific terms because I ALWAYS learn something, but I cannot do that when the post includes palm slang.

On the other hand, I also believe that it is the responsibily of the 'student' to make his/her best effort to learn from the dozens of books and online information that is available.

I noticed that someone else had a suggestion similar to mine to create a Palm Talk information resource that would provide slang definitions as well as other basic terms and information.

Lastly, doesn't helping others to learn in whatever way we can benefits us all.....Don't we all want to see more people planting palms? Don't we all want to share and benefit from the good and bad experiences of other palm growers?...... Don't we all want to see as many palm pictures as we can, even if they are posted by people who have to ask for the palm's ID?

When a new member gets frustrated because he or she can't understand the jargon and gives up on palm talk (and possibly palms) don't we all lose out on the information and pictures that the person might have shared down the line?

Lee