I tried to grow a livistona benthamii but I don't seem to have much luck with this. It does exactly what Geoff Stein says: it dampens off and rots. When I planted it last year, it went to a sickly light green and never really looked very healthy. Mine was in the shade per advice I've seen dispensed out on PalmTalk, and perhaps this was a mistake. I was waiting to see how long it would take to get spear pull. Well, it finally did rot this Spring. It didn't grow especially slow either, it was more as if the roots just couldn't supply enough nutrients to the plant. Perhaps it really isn't compatible with cooler soil temperatures.

So what's the secret to get one of these past the rot-prone juvenile stage in California, and is it worth it given that the ones that do survive to maturity in California look unappealing? According to Geoff, it really doesn't look all that distinct from the standard decora, just a little smaller and with nastier teeth. Here is Geoff's description for this palm:

This palm has a somewhat similar appearance to the much more common Livistona decipiens (now decorum) and Livistona australis wtih the typical drooping leaflets, though it tends to hold more leaf bases near the base of the palm. It is a smaller and less statuesque palm. Also the teeth on the petioles are huge and curved and very sharp. Cultivationally, at least here in California, this one is a much harder plant to grow, seeming to dampen off or rot very easily when young. It is very slow and finicky as a seedling. Mature plants are very rare in southern California.

Can someone inspire me to pursue this species further, or is it a waste of time in a Mediterranean climate? The picture of the one growing at the Huntington isn't exactly too inspiring, it really looks unhappy. However, the ones in Hawaii and subtropical Australia really look nice.

Huntington Gardens:

Fogg Dam Reserve in Northern Australia:

Considering the fact you are in Santa Cruz, I doubt you will have much luck with very many NT Aussie palms. Best chance is find one big at some nursery.

Axel if similar to Livistona decora and Livistona australis , I wonder why cultivate this species that is not good for you

Considering the fact you are in Santa Cruz, I doubt you will have much luck with very many NT Aussie palms. Best chance is find one big at some nursery.

Len, my climate is to Santa Cruz what Vista is to Carlsbad, two different worlds. With that being said, it's safe to say that if a palm isn't doing well in Southern California, unless it's a highland palm, then it won't do well for me here either. Going for a bigger one is a good way to flush money down the toilet if it does this poorly as a 5 gallon plant.

So if an NT palm doesn't work in Socal, there's no point in me trying it here. The only NT palms that have proven themselves in Socal are livistona rigida and livistona mariae, both of which seem to do well in my climate. Hence why I decided to give Livistona benthamii a go here. Are there ANY other NT palms that actually work in Socal?

Out of curiosity, I looked up NT native palms on the PACSOA site, this is the ones they list in addition to Livistona rigida and mariae. I would guess some of these might get by in the inland empire and lower deserts, but do any of these besides rigida and mariae grow anywhere within 10 miles of the coast?

• Arenga australasica
• Carpentaria acuminata
• Corypha utan
• Gronophyllum ramsayi
• Hydriastele wendlandiana
• Livistona benthamii
• Livistona humilis
• Livistona inermis
• Livistona victoriae
• Nypa fruticans
• Ptychosperma bleeseri

Axel if similar to Livistona decora and Livistona australis , I wonder why cultivate this species that is not good for you

I am probably not going to plant another one unless someone convinces me otherwise.

i had 3 in the ground, 2 one gallons & a five gallon. the spear pulled on one of the smaller ones so i took it out but the other 2 are doing well albeit moving very slowly. i am a bit inland so i guess you'd call that "vista."

Larger plants have a much greater chance of making it in a marginal climate then a seedling Axel. If you really want to try this plant get a bigger one.

Personally I find it far to similar to the other ones mentioned to even make it worth the effort.

Palms and Cycads from the NT are tricky for us in coastal climates in Cali. Just the way it is. Wish it were not the case.

I'm finding that L. victoriae will grow for me, about 9 miles inland. It's slow, and doesn't seem to grow unless it's really hot. My L. inermis is still in a pot but I've been trying to find a place to plant it out. L. lorophylla is not happy as a seedling anyway. I'm hoping that I can get them past the damp off stage.

the "knobby" trunk on these palms when they get bigger is really interesting.

Axel,

I have two growing for me here in south San Diego. They are in sandy soil in part shade. I have had no problem with either of them but they are slower than many other Livistonas. I wanted benthamii as I alreay have many other of the more common Livistonas. Mine came as one gallons from Jungle Music.

patrick

• Arenga australasica
• Carpentaria acuminata
• Corypha utan
• Gronophyllum ramsayi
• Hydriastele wendlandiana
• Livistona benthamii
• Livistona humilis
• Livistona inermis
• Livistona victoriae
• Nypa fruticans
• Ptychosperma bleeseri

Axel,

• The lowest temperature ever recorded in Darwin is 13.4C (46.5F).
• The average overnight low is above 19.7C (67F) for every month of the year.
• The daytime average maximum is above 30C (86F) for every month of the year.

Hope that helps!

Cheers,

Jonathan

I'm finding that L. victoriae will grow for me, about 9 miles inland. It's slow, and doesn't seem to grow unless it's really hot. My L. inermis is still in a pot but I've been trying to find a place to plant it out. L. lorophylla is not happy as a seedling anyway. I'm hoping that I can get them past the damp off stage.

Matt, my Victoriae just struggles. It really does need heat like you said. The cold is usually not an issue as many of these NT palms and cycads grow great in the further inland areas like Borego Springs that get below freezing a few nights a week each winter. I had a second really nice 5 gallon I had been growing in the greenhouse that I just gave to Gary and he planted. I just gave up on it as I knew it just wasn't going to happen.

My L. inermis died the first winter.

Arenga australasica may be worth a try for you Axel. I personally wouldn't bother with benthamii when australis and decora look fine in your climate. Try growing L jenkinsianna instead. It comes from the wet cool areas of the lower Himalayas.

<p>

• Arenga australasica
• Carpentaria acuminata
• Corypha utan
• Gronophyllum ramsayi
• Hydriastele wendlandiana
• Livistona benthamii
• Livistona humilis
• Livistona inermis
• Livistona victoriae
• Nypa fruticans
• Ptychosperma bleeseri

Axel,

• The lowest temperature ever recorded in Darwin is 13.4C (46.5F).
• The average overnight low is above 19.7C (67F) for every month of the year.
• The daytime average maximum is above 30C (86F) for every month of the year.

Hope that helps!

Cheers,

Jonathan

I get it, but mariae and rigida both grow fine here. So you just never know. I don't have any aspirations To grow a lot of NT palms. Livistona benthamii was more of a curiosity.

You dont have to go far inland before the absolute minimums start dropping into single digits, but the stuff from the far north is pretty tropical.

L. rigida extends inland nearly as far as Mt. Isa in Qld, where the lows can get down to nearly freezing, it's a big difference from the benthamii habitat further north.

You wouldn't expect palms from coastal NT to have much cold tolerance, but as you say, you never know.

Cheers,

Jonathan

You dont have to go far inland before the absolute minimums start dropping into single digits, but the stuff from the far north is pretty tropical.

L. rigida extends inland nearly as far as Mt. Isa in Qld, where the lows can get down to nearly freezing, it's a big difference from the benthamii habitat further north.

You wouldn't expect palms from coastal NT to have much cold tolerance, but as you say, you never know.

Cheers,

Jonathan

Your explanation sheds some light on why mariae and rigida both do well here. Those are the ones I will stick with.

Probably a safer bet Axel.

But I totally understand the temptation!

Cheers,

Jonathan

Probably a safer bet Axel.

But I totally understand the temptation!

Cheers,

Jonathan

It's worth trying things out. For example I discovered that dypsis ambositrae is good in our cool climate and now Darold has success with it. You should grow one as well.

I'm finding that L. victoriae will grow for me, about 9 miles inland. It's slow, and doesn't seem to grow unless it's really hot. My L. inermis is still in a pot but I've been trying to find a place to plant it out. L. lorophylla is not happy as a seedling anyway. I'm hoping that I can get them past the damp off stage.

Matt, my Victoriae just struggles. It really does need heat like you said. The cold is usually not an issue as many of these NT palms and cycads grow great in the further inland areas like Borego Springs that get below freezing a few nights a week each winter. I had a second really nice 5 gallon I had been growing in the greenhouse that I just gave to Gary and he planted. I just gave up on it as I knew it just wasn't going to happen.

My L. inermis died the first winter.

Maybe I shouldn't be so eager to plant out my 1 gallon L. inermis.

Matt, you have a great climate and a green thumb. Plant away.

Both L. benthamii and L. drudei are frost tender for me. L. drudei recovers quickly but a hint of frost and its defoliated. Benthamii, on the other hand, needs a frost free environment and a swamp, and I have neither here in Central FL. I'm lucky if benthamii has one leaf.

I had lots of trouble growing this one too at first. As Keith mentioned, at least in FL, it likes a swampy location. Here in our sandy soils it does not tolerate drought or dryness at all. Our best one is about 6ft tall now but growing in wet black muck. The other 2 are around 4-5ft and growing in bright shade and well irrigated. But they are slower growing than other Livistonas.

Re Dypsis ambositrae.

Axel, my 'success' is that the pre-existing spear elongated and opened! I'll get back to you in a few years,

I noticed one of those 2 photos at the top of the thread is mine, from Fogg Dam. That's a great easily accessible place to see them. Here's a link to lots of photos of them I posted a few years back:

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/23008-livistona-benthamii/page-1

There's also discussion of growing conditions.

The reason mariae would grow better in a mediterranean is that it comes from just outside the tropics in the central desert region. Although, they grow in creek lines and often sitting in permanent water. Rigida grows in the tropics and although in the semi-arid region, it also extends into the monsoonal tropics. So it's probably a good each way bet for both humid and mediterranean climates.

With inermis, I'd say it'd be a big mistake to plant it out in California. It would have both climate and soil going against it.

They've decided Ptychosperma bleeseri is really P. macarthuri, but not sure if it's ssp. bleeseri or var bleeseri.

Re Dypsis ambositrae.

Axel, my 'success' is that the pre-existing spear elongated and opened! I'll get back to you in a few years,

I believe in you, Darold, you can make this grow!

I noticed one of those 2 photos at the top of the thread is mine, from Fogg Dam. That's a great easily accessible place to see them. Here's a link to lots of photos of them I posted a few years back:

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/23008-livistona-benthamii/page-1

There's also discussion of growing conditions.

The reason mariae would grow better in a mediterranean is that it comes from just outside the tropics in the central desert region. Although, they grow in creek lines and often sitting in permanent water. Rigida grows in the tropics and although in the semi-arid region, it also extends into the monsoonal tropics. So it's probably a good each way bet for both humid and mediterranean climates.

With inermis, I'd say it'd be a big mistake to plant it out in California. It would have both climate and soil going against it.

They've decided Ptychosperma bleeseri is really P. macarthuri, but not sure if it's ssp. bleeseri or var bleeseri.

The fate of mine is sealed, it's coming out and I am putting a nitida in its place.

No point flogging a dead horse. But it might be helpful for anyone else who might want to give them a try.

I dug up the benthamii, and no wonder it had spear pull. A post mortem analysis revealed a completely bone dry rootball! Yet another classic case of crappy peat moss based soil that went completely dry and despite massive amounts of water and surrounding soil that was soaked like a swamp, the rootball was totally dry.

I really, really hate peat moss, that stuff is garbage for potted palms.

I doubt this palm had any issue with our temperatures, it's definitely been a water issue.

I'll say it again, peat moss SUCKS!!!

OK.... coming from the top end here.... Most of NT Natives are very particular with their requirements. Inland top end, which is where most of these palms from, can get cold to 6-8deg C, but remember that the day temperature is 32deg C every day in the dry season. We very rarely get wet dry season (winter), that would probably kill them.

The wet season is HOT HOT HOT and HUMID HUMID HUMID. It is hovering about 38deg inland with probably 80% humidity. Night time temperature would be probably range from 25-27deg with 80% humidity. Horrible for human? Absolutely!! Horrible for plants? No way.... This is when we see amazing growth on everything... We also get around 1700-2200mm of rain a year, which falls in 4-5 months. Our weather is extreme!!

So, good luck in growing them. You never know unless you try . We do have some nice native palms

OK.... coming from the top end here.... Most of NT Natives are very particular with their requirements. Inland top end, which is where most of these palms from, can get cold to 6-8deg C, but remember that the day temperature is 32deg C every day in the dry season. We very rarely get wet dry season (winter), that would probably kill them.

The wet season is HOT HOT HOT and HUMID HUMID HUMID. It is hovering about 38deg inland with probably 80% humidity. Night time temperature would be probably range from 25-27deg with 80% humidity. Horrible for human? Absolutely!! Horrible for plants? No way.... This is when we see amazing growth on everything... We also get around 1700-2200mm of rain a year, which falls in 4-5 months. Our weather is extreme!!

So, good luck in growing them. You never know unless you try . We do have some nice native palms

Ok, I like hot humid weather, but that's crazy uncomfortable, unless you're a top end Livistona. It also explains why both seem kind of wimpy here. They are too dry and cold.