This crazy thing survived a Santa Cruz Mountains Winter, even though it was planted in the ground from a one gallon last October. I am more and more convinced there's something special about Floribunda palms growing on benches in pumice. That has to be the reason so many of Jeff's plants make it in my garden. I lost only three plants out of many planted in the ground both in the Summer and as late as October. And this is after a record cold December, but record warm January. Will it die this Summer?

Wow. Looks great. It should love summer.

Let us know.

That's a lot of growth for 6 months.

Is this a recent picture? I feel astonished!! Nevertheless you have to take seriously in to account that past winter had been generally very mild but some dry freezes in December. Anyway this is helluva start! What do you mean by palms growing on benches in pumice? That beneath pot there is pumice or that growing medium is pumice?

From a grower's standpoint, I can't see any merit in giving credit to the palm grown in pumice over in Hawaii. Once your palm has acclimated to your environment AND the soil it's planted in, then you will truly know how happy it is.

Fenestre--is that the new latin species name for the windows form?

Well, "fenetre" means "window" in French, so that seems like you might be right...

Fenestre--is that the new latin species name for the windows form?

that's supposed to be the new Latin species name.

I believe it's Beccariophoenix fenestralis.

I believe it's Beccariophoenix fenestralis.

Thanks Bo--who would know, honstly?! it's not in my IPS journal nor in any of my other palm journals... A specific section of Palmtalk, could be used to add fresh news like name changes--where else am I gonna stay up on my taxonomy? And one would think, if these taxonomists are doing all this work, why would they not want it known somewhere? Seems like they like it hush hush. I really hate this rumour mill: 'hey did you hear that they changed the name of the windows form of Beccariophoenix?'

I believe it's Beccariophoenix fenestralis.

I've never been good at Latin.

I believe it's Beccariophoenix fenestralis.

Thanks Bo--who would know, honstly?! it's not in my IPS journal nor in any of my other palm journals... A specific section of Palmtalk, could be used to add fresh news like name changes--where else am I gonna stay up on my taxonomy? And one would think, if these taxonomists are doing all this work, why would they not want it known somewhere? Seems like they like it hush hush. I really hate this rumour mill: 'hey did you hear that they changed the name of the windows form of Beccariophoenix?'

Name change is word of mouth, the botanists go hang out with Jeff, Jeff tells us these things. Should get published soon.

I believe it's Beccariophoenix fenestralis.

I've never been good at Latin.

I believe it's Beccariophoenix fenestralis.

Thanks Bo--who would know, honstly?! it's not in my IPS journal nor in any of my other palm journals... A specific section of Palmtalk, could be used to add fresh news like name changes--where else am I gonna stay up on my taxonomy? And one would think, if these taxonomists are doing all this work, why would they not want it known somewhere? Seems like they like it hush hush. I really hate this rumour mill: 'hey did you hear that they changed the name of the windows form of Beccariophoenix?'

Name change is word of mouth, the botanists go hang out with Jeff, Jeff tells us these things. Should get published soon.

word of mouth? Axel, we are beyond stone tools and fire for protection--it's called a website and 21st century exposure. It is really frustrating how these academics could be complacent with only a select few being in on the knowledge; isn't ignorance the opposite of education? This is exactly the reason why we still have 'learned' people calling Dypsis lutescens an areca palm.

I believe it's Beccariophoenix fenestralis.

I've never been good at Latin.

I believe it's Beccariophoenix fenestralis.

Thanks Bo--who would know, honstly?! it's not in my IPS journal nor in any of my other palm journals... A specific section of Palmtalk, could be used to add fresh news like name changes--where else am I gonna stay up on my taxonomy? And one would think, if these taxonomists are doing all this work, why would they not want it known somewhere? Seems like they like it hush hush. I really hate this rumour mill: 'hey did you hear that they changed the name of the windows form of Beccariophoenix?'

Name change is word of mouth, the botanists go hang out with Jeff, Jeff tells us these things. Should get published soon.

word of mouth? Axel, we are beyond stone tools and fire for protection--it's called a website and 21st century exposure. It is really frustrating how these academics could be complacent with only a select few being in on the knowledge; isn't ignorance the opposite of education? This is exactly the reason why we still have 'learned' people calling Dypsis lutescens an areca palm.

Eh? Do you see a single palm botanist posting here? Do you see any of them engaging us? I know lots of university professors in other fields that are very active on the internet and actually talk and engage lay folks. This sort of thing apparently isn't of much interest to the palm botanists. This is perhaps the worst aspect of the IPS, seems as if we are still in the stone age.

Axel, I cannot agree more--it feels like a real obstinance by the taxonimists to remain aloof from the people who appreciate their work most of all. I really cannot understand why they cannot use this site as a tool for education and palm news. It might as well be Pariahtalk, the way they must see it--all us 'dummies' drooling over a Dypsis sp. yellow stem...

When it's official it will be published! Jeeeez!!! That's the way it works.

That's a lot of growth for 6 months.

it looks like 1 frond in 6 months to me, but at least its not brown

When it's official it will be published! Jeeeez!!! That's the way it works.

No one's asking you to stop riding a pony, but the Pony Express is long gone, Jeff.

Axel, I cannot agree more--it feels like a real obstinance by the taxonimists to remain aloof from the people who appreciate their work most of all. I really cannot understand why they cannot use this site as a tool for education and palm news. It might as well be Pariahtalk, the way they must see it--all us 'dummies' drooling over a Dypsis sp. yellow stem...

I am really hungry for interaction with the taxonomists. Unfortunately, you are right, there is zero access to these people. You have to be part of the "inn" crowd, it feels very elitist to me. I am grateful for people like Jeff Marcus who are opposed to any sort of elitism and try to make themselves available to the rest of us. He's not a taxonomist but he actually seems a lot more knowledgeable than they are.

That's a lot of growth for 6 months.

it looks like 1 frond in 6 months to me, but at least its not brown

Yes, that's right, I am not impressed with the level of growth on this thing, it hasn't really moved since planted. I don't see it as a viable palm here, it's not chill tolerant at all. it's a miracle it's alive and I don't expect it will do well, next Winter should kill it off.

Chances are it will die after exposure to a typical winter of extended periods of cool and damp. By then, the name will be published and you can chisel it on the tombstone.

I don't know all the "rules" but science has specific protocols for naming plants, and for a botanist to post a name on a web site prior to publication could compromise the validity of the name -- or something kind of like that. It has nothing to do with elitism. But these negative attitudes toward those who do the palm research for us, as expressed above, do nothing to encourage participation here by our botanist members. We are only putting our own ignorance on display.

I heard the rumor of the name change almost 5 years ago and it's still just a rumor. I'm surprised it's taken this long to make it official!

Chances are it will die after exposure to a typical winter of extended periods of cool and damp. By then, the name will be published and you can chisel it on the tombstone.

Wow Kim, that was uncharacteristically snarky.

I like it.

I was shocked to see a few small ones at Disney's Animal Kingdom. They didn't look too hot but they were alive!

Chances are it will die after exposure to a typical winter of extended periods of cool and damp. By then, the name will be published and you can chisel it on the tombstone.

I don't know all the "rules" but science has specific protocols for naming plants, and for a botanist to post a name on a web site prior to publication could compromise the validity of the name -- or something kind of like that. It has nothing to do with elitism. But these negative attitudes toward those who do the palm research for us, as expressed above, do nothing to encourage participation here by our botanist members. We are only putting our own ignorance on display.

Kim, glad you are so sure you know what's gonna happen to it. Nice snark, and that may the the likely outcome, but I am not sure, we'll see. If it's alive next Spring, better be ready for snarks coming your way.

As for the taxonomists, you're mixing up cause and effect. The negative attitudes exist because they're not here. Would be pretty easy to fix by them just showing up and talking to us.

We call it beccariophoenix windows because we all know it's a different species, you're gonna tell me we need to wait for publication to translate that to latin? I am not waiting for them to publish that. The latin word for windows is fenestra. 'lis' turns the noun into an adjective "windows-like". Fenestra, fenestralis, potato, potato.

Come on guys, every senior grower has lost quite enough palms in the past, so that he should be immune to some eloquent and descriptive expressions.

Axel, I cannot agree more--it feels like a real obstinance by the taxonimists to remain aloof from the people who appreciate their work most of all. I really cannot understand why they cannot use this site as a tool for education and palm news. It might as well be Pariahtalk, the way they must see it--all us 'dummies' drooling over a Dypsis sp. yellow stem...

I am really hungry for interaction with the taxonomists. Unfortunately, you are right, there is zero access to these people. You have to be part of the "inn" crowd, it feels very elitist to me. I am grateful for people like Jeff Marcus who are opposed to any sort of elitism and try to make themselves available to the rest of us. He's not a taxonomist but he actually seems a lot more knowledgeable than they are.

I think most of us are. I have been pushing for a new site where content is updated weekly in the IPS blog. Now that I am on the Board is to try and motivate the palm botanist we have to send me (or another person) the articles and photos and I (we) could blog on it for members to read about. So much is happening in the palm world but we know nothing about it. Once these people see how easy it is to provide content and how it actually benefits their own goals and ambitions, I think we will be on our way... The latest Palms journal had a great article on the new palm found in Columbia. Stuff like that could be sent to us for a quick story on the blog and newsletter and then when released in full in the journal more might be interested to read or even join.

Come on guys, every senior grower has lost quite enough palms in the past, so that he should be immune to some eloquent and descriptive expressions.

I thought what Kim posted was funny, I am quite skeptical this thing will turn into a worthwhile specimen in my garden, so I think she's right anyway. But I am not a senior grower.

Chances are it will die after exposure to a typical winter of extended periods of cool and damp. By then, the name will be published and you can chisel it on the tombstone.

I don't know all the "rules" but science has specific protocols for naming plants, and for a botanist to post a name on a web site prior to publication could compromise the validity of the name -- or something kind of like that. It has nothing to do with elitism. But these negative attitudes toward those who do the palm research for us, as expressed above, do nothing to encourage participation here by our botanist members. We are only putting our own ignorance on display.

Kim, glad you are so sure you know what's gonna happen to it. Nice snark, and that may the the likely outcome, but I am not sure, we'll see. If it's alive next Spring, better be ready for snarks coming your way.

As for the taxonomists, you're mixing up cause and effect. The negative attitudes exist because they're not here. Would be pretty easy to fix by them just showing up and talking to us.

We call it beccariophoenix windows because we all know it's a different species, you're gonna tell me we need to wait for publication to translate that to latin? I am not waiting for them to publish that. The latin word for windows is fenestra. 'lis' turns the noun into an adjective "windows-like". Fenestra, fenestralis, potato, potato.

Or "potatoe", according to Mr. Quayle.

That's a lot of growth for 6 months.

it looks like 1 frond in 6 months to me, but at least its not brown

The picture makes it look big, and I'm envisioning your typical 1 gallon plany here in SD - which is 1' - 2' tall. I didn't see any before pictures, but I can say this much, it seems to growing much faster than my B. alfredii - which I understand to be faster anyways.

That's a lot of growth for 6 months.

it looks like 1 frond in 6 months to me, but at least its not brown

The picture makes it look big, and I'm envisioning your typical 1 gallon plany here in SD - which is 1' - 2' tall. I didn't see any before pictures, but I can say this much, it seems to growing much faster than my B. alfredii - which I understand to be faster anyways.

It's definitely gotten bigger. But not much frond movement.

That's a lot of growth for 6 months.

it looks like 1 frond in 6 months to me, but at least its not brown

The picture makes it look big, and I'm envisioning your typical 1 gallon plany here in SD - which is 1' - 2' tall. I didn't see any before pictures, but I can say this much, it seems to growing much faster than my B. alfredii - which I understand to be faster anyways.

It's definitely gotten bigger. But not much frond movement.

Sounds like my C. macrocarpa. In the year or so that I've had it (my Chamberonia) its easily doubled in size, but has not thrown any new fronds. I suspect by big Sabal may be doing the same.

If you don't have a spear that you can mark to check progress, you can't be sure your palm has a future. It may already be "dead." And I can't tell if there is the tip of a new spear there, or not.

I have a friend holding a very rare expensive palm for me (a Sclerosperma sp.) that is "between spears." I won't buy it until I can see a new spear moving. He has been holding it for about 3 months now, and still no new spear - but the palm looks very healthy.

If you don't have a spear that you can mark to check progress, you can't be sure your palm has a future. It may already be "dead." And I can't tell if there is the tip of a new spear there, or not.

I have a friend holding a very rare expensive palm for me (a Sclerosperma sp.) that is "between spears." I won't buy it until I can see a new spear moving. He has been holding it for about 3 months now, and still no new spear - but the palm looks very healthy.

You're looking at the spear opening into a new leaf. There's a new spear following below that. It's just super slow, that's all. Definitely not dead, but super slow, especially with April temps that are closer to what we see in December.

If you don't have a spear that you can mark to check progress, you can't be sure your palm has a future. It may already be "dead." And I can't tell if there is the tip of a new spear there, or not.

I have a friend holding a very rare expensive palm for me (a Sclerosperma sp.) that is "between spears." I won't buy it until I can see a new spear moving. He has been holding it for about 3 months now, and still no new spear - but the palm looks very healthy.

You're looking at the spear opening into a new leaf. There's a new spear following below that. It's just super slow, that's all. Definitely not dead, but super slow, especially with April temps that are closer to what we see in December.

That is what I am saying - if you can mark that new spear and confirm it is definitely moving, then good. Just don't confuse "super slow" with not moving. Why don't you mark it and take a close up pic for us?

Looks l like a palm that's stalled out and opened up a spear too early in an effort to stay alive. Putting it in a sheltered, shady spot is probably like keeping an accident victim in the hospital on life support. They're not dead, but, yeah, they're dead.

Well, if that window palm makes it, I'll, well I don't want to bet anything TOO humiliating . . . and lose.

I will be surprised. They just don't like So-Cal, let alone No-Cal.

That said, if it grows, I'll try one here again. For the tenth time . . . .

Well, if that window palm makes it, I'll, well I don't want to bet anything TOO humiliating . . . and lose.

I will be surprised. They just don't like So-Cal, let alone No-Cal.

That said, if it grows, I'll try one here again. For the tenth time . . . .

Dave, you're backpedaling on me, you already bet me if it would be alive this Spring. It's alive alright.

Andrew, not too sure what you mean, and exactly what you know about riding ponies, but people are starting to talk.

Chances are it will die after exposure to a typical winter of extended periods of cool and damp. By then, the name will be published and you can chisel it on the tombstone.

I don't know all the "rules" but science has specific protocols for naming plants, and for a botanist to post a name on a web site prior to publication could compromise the validity of the name -- or something kind of like that. It has nothing to do with elitism. But these negative attitudes toward those who do the palm research for us, as expressed above, do nothing to encourage participation here by our botanist members. We are only putting our own ignorance on display.

Kim, I am not displaying any negativity towards any Botanists, just some frustration at the inefficient process, currently. Can you speak to, "compromise the validity of the name"? Maybe I am displaying my ignorance...

Axel, I cannot agree more--it feels like a real obstinance by the taxonimists to remain aloof from the people who appreciate their work most of all. I really cannot understand why they cannot use this site as a tool for education and palm news. It might as well be Pariahtalk, the way they must see it--all us 'dummies' drooling over a Dypsis sp. yellow stem...

I am really hungry for interaction with the taxonomists. Unfortunately, you are right, there is zero access to these people. You have to be part of the "inn" crowd, it feels very elitist to me. I am grateful for people like Jeff Marcus who are opposed to any sort of elitism and try to make themselves available to the rest of us. He's not a taxonomist but he actually seems a lot more knowledgeable than they are.

I think most of us are. I have been pushing for a new site where content is updated weekly in the IPS blog. Now that I am on the Board is to try and motivate the palm botanist we have to send me (or another person) the articles and photos and I (we) could blog on it for members to read about. So much is happening in the palm world but we know nothing about it. Once these people see how easy it is to provide content and how it actually benefits their own goals and ambitions, I think we will be on our way... The latest Palms journal had a great article on the new palm found in Columbia. Stuff like that could be sent to us for a quick story on the blog and newsletter and then when released in full in the journal more might be interested to read or even join.

Thank you, Len--you have recieved mine and Axel's point. We don't want to offend anyone--just get in on the good stuff. If Palmtalk isn't worthy for that kinda stuff, then who would be? Like you said, there is so much going on, that we don't get alerted to, that is more than interesting to this group of folks.