Teddy x Triangle, gopher cage advice

[MattyB]

I'm getting ready to plant out my teddy x triangle hybrid. Thanks to Mike M Pacific Beach for hooking me up with the seedling. I usually put everything in 1" chicken wire. This is usually sufficient to stop most gophers, but it rusts out after about 5 years. This particular spot is real prone to getting gophers so I was thinking of using a heavy duty 1/2" mesh (known as hardware cloth) so it would last longer. I'm a little concerned that the roots might not be able to get out of the smaller mesh. I know triangles have really fat roots but I'm not sure about teddys and have no idea with the hybrid. Any thoughts on this? Thanks.

[Palmdude]

How about some of that orange plastic netting stuff you see on the roadways to barricade things off with? That should last forever, if the holes are to big you could Double or triple it up and make the holes smaller? I think they have it at home despot

Edited March 23, 2014 by Palmdude

[DALION]

Here is a mesh for gophers cages. The stainless steel mesh has a lifetime guarantee and is a bit pricey but what is the value of the palms you are protecting?

http://www.gopherslimited.com/gopherwire.html

[MattyB]

Gophers will eat through plastic. They can eat through wood. Think of a small beaver that lives underground.

[Palmdude]

Oh

Lol! You said small beaver

[akamu]

I have seen smaller rolls of stainless mesh at big box stores in the past for much cheaper. Your right about the eating through plastic thing. If you didn't have so many coyotes I would say get a ferrel female farm cat we had one move into our neighborhood and the gopher carcasses are piling up i have not had a single gopher in my yard since the cat showed up as a matter of fact all the ground squirrels and rabbits are dead also. She is our new best friend

[Palmdude]

Note to self start feeding ferrel cats!

[Sabal Steve]

Matt,

I have some galvanized fence that I organized into tall cylinders to contain my plants. You are welcome to have use one for as long as you need. They are pretty sturdy. I used sections of 1/2 in rebar about 3 feet long to anchor the cage down. I'll shoot a pic tomorrow.

[LJG]

Matty, Darian has tried it all. He has said on many occasions the only way to stop a gopher is pot planting. Buy a 25 gallon pot, and put it in there. Once the plant is big enough roots will push out the drain holes and spread from there.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

I use gopher cages out of either chicken wire (short term) or hardware mesh (long term). The roots grow through the mesh no problem. Think about it, palms will grow roots through lava rock, a puny hardware cloth barier isn't going to stop them. They'll grow right through it.

Gophers do climb OVER the barriers, though and go in from above. You will need to cover the top as well, then it's full proof.

[Geoff]

I was just going to say same thing... pot planted a Brahea, and gophers just climbed in over top of pot edge and ate roots.. I have had a few persistent gophers eat through pot plastic if planting in cheaper, smaller pots (1 gal for example). But I seriously doubt there will be any problems with palm roots going through hardware cloth... though just know it rusts pretty fast, too, unless galvinized.

[Zeeth]

I have some pots with holes in the bottom of them that are so large that soil runs through it pretty fast, especially when I water. In these pots, I put squares of a small mesh size window screen to solve this problem. All palms that I've ever planted send roots right through the screen like nothing, so I'm sure you'll be fine with as small of a mesh as you decide to plant.

[Gtlevine]

Teddy triangle grows so fast in three years it will have trunk and gophers will not be a threat. The roots are aggressive so i would not use plastic. I did not use gopher protection on any of my teddy's or teddy crosses and just killed gophers as i saw them. Now all plants have trunk and gophher threat is gone.

[MattyB]

Thanks for the responses. So I'm leaning towards the hardware cloth. But how does a 1" diameter root get through a 1/2" mesh? Axel, did your roots constrict down, pass through, and then bulk back up again? Or are they smaller to begin with?

[LJG]

Gary, there is no such thing as a gopher threat being gone in a place like Matt's. I have seen them move down large trunking Bizzie's. I have seen a 30 year old Pritchardia toppled over.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Thanks for the responses. So I'm leaning towards the hardware cloth. But how does a 1" diameter root get through a 1/2" mesh? Axel, did your roots constrict down, pass through, and then bulk back up again? Or are they smaller to begin with?

Matty, the roots basically encase the mesh. They grow through the mesh, and then as they thicken the mesh ends up inside the root itself. I would probably use something with at least 3/4" mesh. I've not seen new roots that are 1" in diameter at the tip, but I have noticed that most palm roots are definitely thicker and more fleshly than regular trees, which is why at least 3/4" is better.

I've never had a gopher eat through chicken wire though, I think you'd be safe with that. Just get the higher grade.

I would also suggest you regularly purge your property of gophers. I am out there every day and I look for signs of gopher activity. I trapped about 5 of them already this Spring. It's a recurring problem that won't go away, but regular trapping and destroying existing runs is important.

[Joe palma]

The fat roots won't grow through the mesh. Smaller roots will be produced at that point, grow through the mesh and then fatten, as you question and Axel mentioned, and encase the mesh, and continue to grow outward. Does that restrict water uptake through the mesh because the roots aren't as fat as they would like to be at that discontinuity, probably, but the palm then might be producing more roots to make up for it.

STILL the gophers will eat whatever they can outside the mesh barrier, so it is important to make the hole, and the barrier, as large as you reasonably can.

Part of the issue is spot watering. When you don't broadcast water (and there are very good reasons not to), and focus watering around the base of the palm, you drawn them into it. No way around that if don't broadcast water or have lots of rain.

[Zeeth]

The fat roots won't grow through the mesh. Smaller roots will be produced at that point, grow through the mesh and then fatten, as you question and Axel mentioned, and encase the mesh, and continue to grow outward.

I don't agree. I've seen first hand fat roots growing through a mesh much much smaller than the size of the roots.

[MattyB]

You guys agree

[Zeeth]

You guys agree

I think you're right, I just misread his comment. Either way, I would go with the smaller sized mesh if I were you, but I've never had to deal with gophers before, so I should probably defer to the Cali growers.

[sonoranfans]

the gopher pest thing seems really a tough challenge. Has anyone tried to use cayenne water or capsaicin oil to deter the little suckers? Yeah you would have to use it a lot, probably in line fertigation style, but perhaps those little rodents, like squirrels, don't like capsaicin(pepper). there may be a better way, perhaps at least from some of the prized specimens that are rare or take longer to grow....

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

the gopher pest thing seems really a tough challenge. Has anyone tried to use cayenne water or capsaicin oil to deter the little suckers? Yeah you would have to use it a lot, probably in line fertigation style, but perhaps those little rodents, like squirrels, don't like capsaicin(pepper). there may be a better way, perhaps at least from some of the prized specimens that are rare or take longer to grow....

No such thing as a gopher repellent. You can pee to mark your territory, that actually does help Because that is the language that animals understand. Doesn't mean they're gonna respect you though.

[Inland Palms]

Hey Matt,

I have been buying the 'green' plastic coated chicken wire hoping that it might last a little longer than the regular one. Sometimes when I build the cages, I overlap and 'double up' on the sides. It makes the openings smaller than the 1" but wider than the hardware cloth size.

Randy