Royal Palms in Central Florida in the 1930's

[Eric in Orlando]

I found an old photo of the Howey Mansion in Howey-in-the-Hills, FL. This is about 30 miles NW of Orlando. The mansion was built in 1927. I don't know when this photo was taken, maybe the 1930s. It is interesting to see some large mature Royal Palms growing there, probably Roystonea regia.

[Eric in Orlando]

There is an old, tall Mule Palm, X Butiagrus nabonnandii, across from the mansion nowdays. I don't know if this was planted back then. The land may have been part of the estate decades ago.

[Explorer]

There are some Roystonea regia there on that picture. Maybe they had several milder winters then. And maybe they had planted large ones then.

Alexander

[palmsOrl]

Eric, when I was in my early/mid teens (1998 - 2000) my parents and I attended some sort of event at a resort/country club in Howie-in-the-Hills. I remember a courtyard that had a large royal palm in it, and I was amazed to see a large specimen that far north. Not sure if that resort had anything to do with the mansion in the photo. At the time, Royals were not even really anything but rare in Orlando (they are still somewhat rare here and they shouldn't be in the city). Howie-in-the-Hills is well northwest of the Orlando area. Much colder out there. Maybe being situated in the higher elevation hilly areas is a helpful micro-climate.

[mike-coral gables]

I have had good luck with my royals (planted from 3gal) over the past 3 years in Mt Dora. The warming lake microclimate and proximity to the Lakefront must help....

[edbrown_III]

I think there was a warm period between 1916 and 1948 but freezes followed in 1948, 1958, 1962 and the 3 in the 1980a we were aware of. I gotta look at some old palmeteer bulletiins done by Stacey Peacok the CFPS was very active then and he we had a series of meeting s at gardens all through Central Florida and I remember one tour in central florida where we saw some out of place palms near lakes --- I cant remember where but may be it was this place.

Sorry for the bad memory and as always best regards to all.

Ed

[Eric in Orlando]

Those Royals were probably planted as larger specimens when the mansion was built. But the obviously survived for awhile as they don't look to be recent transplants. If they survived for awhile the winter of 1957-58 definitely would have killed them.

[Eric in Orlando]

I have had good luck with my royals (planted from 3gal) over the past 3 years in Mt Dora. The warming lake microclimate and proximity to the Lakefront must help....

Mike, those Royals look to be growing great !

[tikitiki]

How cold did it get in the winter of '57-'58?

[tikitiki]

The great thing about royals are, they are cheap and grow like rockets. worth a plant even if they die every 20 yrs. IMO they look best around 20 feet tall.

[displaced_floridian]

From the Book of Knowledge Annual 1958: "The extreme and persistent winter cold in Florida was the outstanding weather news of 1958. Ice covered open pools in Miami..." I can't remember the rest, but I remember them saying that coconut palms , which were growing all over the Tampa/St. Petersburg area, were wiped out.

[palmsOrl]

Ice covered pools in Miami. Wow. It is always interesting to compare official observations to reports such as the one above. The lowest official temperature at Miami Apt that winter ('57 - '58) was 35F, meaning it is unlikely that the city of Miami itself had widespread freezing conditions. I'm sure areas west and north of the city saw sub-freezing temps. Orlando bottomed out at 25F that same winter and I just noticed that snow was officially observed on January 8, 1958.

I will also note that I have never seen a crust of ice on my (very small) pool here in Orlando, during any cold event. I saw the water trapped above the pool cover (which was on the pool) freeze once in January of 2003. I would have to guess it takes temps well into the 20s to cause pool icing, and that is extremely rare in the metro Miami area. I'm sure 1989 would have caused a thick crust on almost every pool area wide (Orlando), but I was not into weather observations at that time.

[mike-coral gables]

Eric, what Z 10 palms species do you think have the best chance for long term survial in warm Z 9B areas (like Mt Dora)? FYI, I have around 6 - Z 10 copernicias varieties as well as , Archontophoenix cunninghamiana, beccariophoenix alfredii and Ravenea rivularis on my property for the last 3 years, all are doing extremely well.

[Eric in Orlando]

Ice covered pools in Miami. Wow. It is always interesting to compare official observations to reports such as the one above. The lowest official temperature at Miami Apt that winter ('57 - '58) was 35F, meaning it is unlikely that the city of Miami itself had widespread freezing conditions. I'm sure areas west and north of the city saw sub-freezing temps. Orlando bottomed out at 25F that same winter and I just noticed that snow was officially observed on January 8, 1958.

I will also note that I have never seen a crust of ice on my (very small) pool here in Orlando, during any cold event. I saw the water trapped above the pool cover (which was on the pool) freeze once in January of 2003. I would have to guess it takes temps well into the 20s to cause pool icing, and that is extremely rare in the metro Miami area. I'm sure 1989 would have caused a thick crust on almost every pool area wide (Orlando), but I was not into weather observations at that time.

The pool at my mom's house has never had ice on it, not even the horrific Christmas 1989 freeze.

[Eric in Orlando]

The winter of 1957-1958 was cold not wasn't as bad as the freezes of the 1980s (83,85,89). It was one where there was an early freeze in Dec and then some others below frezing nights in Jan. and Feb., at least in central FL. It was more the cumulative effects on tender palms that killed them than outright low temperature. It also didn't wipe out the citrus groves in central FL like the freezes of the 1980s.

I have a copy of an article Dent Smith published in the IPS journal "Principes" back in 1958. It was concerning the winter of 1957-1958 and a detailed analysis about what palms died or survived. He lived towards the southern end of the barrier island at Daytona Beach. It is a zone 9b borderline 10a. He was growing several hundred palms representing over 135 species.

This is the freezing weather he recorded;

1957 Dec. 12- 25F

13- 27F

1958 Jan. 9- 27F

Feb. 3- 32F

4- 30F

14- 31F

17- 29F

18- 26F

19- 26F

20- 29F

He mentions that Feb. 12-13 there was snowfall in west and northern FL; west and north of the Suwanee River recieved 1-3 inches, Jacksonville 1.5 inches, Tallahassee 2.8 inches and there was snow as far south as Gainesville.

[Eric in Orlando]

Eric, what Z 10 palms species do you think have the best chance for long term survial in warm Z 9B areas (like Mt Dora)? FYI, I have around 6 - Z 10 copernicias varieties as well as , Archontophoenix cunninghamiana, beccariophoenix alfredii and Ravenea rivularis on my property for the last 3 years, all are doing extremely well.

Mike, those are definitely good. Some others I would try;

Acrocomia crispa (Gastrococos)

Areca triandra

Arenga caudata, pinnata, wightii, westerhoutii, australasica, hookeriana, obtusifolia

Astrocaryum mexicanum

Attalea sp. (especially A. cohune or rostrata)

Bactris gasipaes, setosa

Beccariophoenix- all 3

Borassus

Burretiokentia

Calamus

Caryota ochlandra, gigas, mitis, obtusa, urens, and "Himalayan"

Carpoxylon

Chambeyronia

Clinostigma savoryanum

Coccothrinax argentata, barbadensis, crinita, miraguama

Copernicia

Corypha utan

Cryosophila

Cyphophoenix elegans, nucele

Dypsis- try any of them but especially baronii, decaryi, leptocheilos, onilahensis, pempana, madagascariensis, madagascariensis "Mahajanga form", robusta

Euterpe edulis

Gaussia maya

Geonoma schottiana

Howea

Hyphaene

Hyophorbe indica

Jubaeopsis caffra

Kentiopsis oliviformis

Kerriodoxa

Laccospadix

Leucothrinax morrissii

Licuala fordiana, peltata, peltata var. sumawongii, ramsayi, spinosa

Lytocaryum

Normanbya

Pinanga coronata, dicksonii, philippinensis

Pritchardia- any of the Hawaiian species

Pseudophoenix sargentii

Ravenea glauca, hilldebrandii, madagascariensis

Roystonea

Sabal mauritiiformis, yapa

Salacca wallichiana

Satakentia

Schippia

Syagrus amara, botryphora, coronata, cocoides, sancona, pseudococos, schizophylla, stenopetala, orinocensis

Thrinax exclesa

Veitchia arecina

Wallichia disticha

Wodyetia

Zombia

[Eric in Orlando]

Eric, what Z 10 palms species do you think have the best chance for long term survial in warm Z 9B areas (like Mt Dora)? FYI, I have around 6 - Z 10 copernicias varieties as well as , Archontophoenix cunninghamiana, beccariophoenix alfredii and Ravenea rivularis on my property for the last 3 years, all are doing extremely well.

[mike-coral gables]

yes Eric, my property is in that subdivision, three lots to the right of those palms, its called "the Pointe" on Lake Dora, btw, congrats again on your wedding and thanks for the list. I would like to give you a tour of my property when you are in town again.

[Eric in Orlando]

Thanks !

We love Mt. Dora, I would love to move there near downtown in an old house. Maybe in a few years when I retire !

We will definitely be up there a lot. Thanks for the offer! Same if you get down here to Leu Gardens !

[Matthew92]

Recently saw this Royal palm in front of a bar/club just south of Clermont on US 27. Looks like it's been there awhile, and it is next to a very old looking queen. I wonder how long it's been here. I will also add that this is a very upland site in the hills near Clermont. I do know that some of the brown fronds are leftover cold damage, but I think that the slightly less than full crown is a result of the more poor, upland soil.