Coconut palm grown in container??

[jfrye01@live.com]

Alright, so before you guys and gals think I'm completely insane, hear me out...I was wondering if it would be at all possible to grow a coconut palm in a container, then sink the container in the ground in spring, leave it outside all summer, then bring it inside in fall...would that at all be possible? Has anyone had success with this? I was thinking the Malayan Dwarf (Cocos nucifera) would possibly stay somewhat small enough to be moved indoors...am I crazy?

[tropicbreeze]

At lot of people (crazy or not) are doing something like that, though not necessarily sinking the container into the ground. How long that can keep going depends on how heavy a container you're going to be able to move around, and how big before you can't move it inside. It will grow slowly (or die) but a big issue will be getting the strength of sunlight it needs while it's indoors.

[Phoenikakias]

Just probe it (take care of course that palm spends cold period in a warm, sunny and not to much dry place) and use sole pumice for potting medium.

[Dakotafl]

In your summers it would probably grow kind of quickly outside, inside obviously slower, i would give it a try.

Definitely make sure it doesn't stay too wet inside, cool and wet for a about a week is very bad for Cocos.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Dakotafl

[wimmie]

  On 2/14/2014 at 5:28 AM, jfrye01@live.com said:

Alright, so before you guys and gals think I'm completely insane, hear me out...I was wondering if it would be at all possible to grow a coconut palm in a container, then sink the container in the ground in spring, leave it outside all summer, then bring it inside in fall...would that at all be possible? Has anyone had success with this? I was thinking the Malayan Dwarf (Cocos nucifera) would possibly stay somewhat small enough to be moved indoors...am I crazy?

I think the trick is giving it a lot of light, especially insite in winter and you have to be carefull bringing it outsite in spring into the Texas sun. Shade > semi-shade > fullsun! It will be possible for at least some years; look at mine in the Coconut-topic a bit furtheron. Succes.

Wim.

[Neil C]

Won't the roots grow into the ground during the summer making it difficult to get back out in Autumn?

Regards Neil

[Dakotafl]

  On 2/14/2014 at 12:14 PM, Neil C said:

Won't the roots grow into the ground during the summer making it difficult to get back out in Autumn?

Regards Neil

Yeah, but he could just put something under it so it doesn't, like weed barrier that people use in beds.

[Peter Pacific]

Try it! I have a zillion coconuts, one thing they like is the heat. Can you provide that during a long winter? The logistics of lugging that thing in and out of the house can be daunting. Where there's a will there's a way!

Good Luck,

Peter

[jfrye01@live.com]

Awesome! Here in Kansas, we certainly have no shortage of heat from about May to September...Hahaha! Thanks for the replies, everyone! Now here's an even crazier idea...would there even be a tiny slight chance of a coco surviving if heat tape or some other heat source was buried around the root ball, and a temporary greenhouse was constructed around it each winter, and temps and humidity kept constant? Would that at all be possible? Maybe I'm just doing a LOT of wishful thinking here, but would it possibly be worth a try? Also, what kind of coco would be best to try with this?

[jfrye01@live.com]

Umm, let's just forget I posted that last post:P The more I look at it, the more stupid I feel for even THINKING this would be possible. Haha...

[ando.wsu]

i say try it. I have two cocos here in Arizona. Stays outside when night time temps stay above 60, and back into the house south facing window when night temps fall below 60. So far they have survived over a year, and beginning to go pinnate from strap leaves. I haven't plunged them in the ground, too lazy to dig a hole. Nice patio plants in the shade when its consistently over 105.

[Dakotafl]

The Cat Palm (Chamaedorea Cataractarum) does really good indoors and would also be great for the in ground summer thing that you might be doing, and it never grows more than 4 ft or so.

[palmsOrl]

Jeffrey(?),

Maintaining a heated, humidified greenhouse over an in-ground coconut palm would be theoretically very possible to do. You would just need a sufficient space heater and a humidifier, with extension cords and maybe a thermostat. You may even be able to get by without a humidifier, since I have noticed that Cocos is relatively indifferent to low humidity as long as the temperature is right and the soil does not dry out. Look at their extensive use in irrigated regions of the Middle East. Virtually no humidity in most of these areas, though I've read that the shores of the Persian Gulf and Red Sea can get extremely humid (and hot) for part of the year.

It would involve significant time, expense and effort to set-up and ongoing expense to keep running from October-April. The size of the structure would also have be adjusted to accommodate the ever-taller(hopefully) palm. If I was wealthy, and lived anywhere from Ocala,FL to St. Louis, MO or Long Island, NY I would have one or two large tropical palms (probably one royal and one coconut) that would get a fully operational greenhouse enclosure during the months required.

[Sutter Bob]

My neighbor has kept one going in a pot through two winters here.

[Sabal Steve]

There's a guy in IOWA that has planted palms in his yard - cold hardy stuff though. He has mini greengouses to protect them in the winter. I think that it's possible, but seal those greenhouses tight, and allow for heating costs.

[Sabal Steve]

I'd consider making a plywood box, painting it black, and insulating it with the pink stuff. Then some transparent/semi-transparent material on top for light to enter the crown. Maybe heating cables too around the base/rootball/trunk. just make the box a little bigger than the palm to keep heating costs down. If it lives to outgrow that, you'll have a winner.

[Sabal Steve]

If you keep the soil moist there will be plenty of humidity in there.

[_Keith]

Just a larger version of this.

http://www.floridafriendlyplants.com/Blog/post/2009/03/03/Pot-in-Pot.aspx

[Hammer]

It's doable but not easy Jacob. I'm in Southern California, my coldest temp during the last 2 years is 32 degrees for maybe an hour. Coconuts are tough to grow here much less in Kansas. I am going to disagree a bit with some of the advice above and agree with some. Here's my take on actually growing in the ground as nature intended...

There is a barely able to survive zone of conditions you might provide and a thriving/growing zone. Strive to provide those thriving growing conditions. Otherwise, it will eventually succumb to pests or disease easier.

60 degrees is the low end of the surviving zone. Coconuts can handle temps lower but if they are consistently at or below 60 degrees you will slowly kill your palm. The closer to 80 degrees the better!

Temps in Kansas will be brutal! I grew up in Nebraska. I know what those polar expresses can bring down from Canada. IMHO, Xmas lights and heating coils will not provide enough heat to keep your palm alive through even a single Kansas winter. They work in Cali but won't be enough on the Great Plains. I would use some kind of radiator style heater. You can pick them up at one of the major box stores. I recommend a radiator because it will heat the entire environment without making the dry conditions worse.

It is absolutely essential that you mound plant. Basically build a two to three foot tall mound and plant on top of that. I would use nearly pure sand. This will help with drainage. You may want to make the mound fairly wide. Coconut roots can travel.

You will need to build a very well insulated structure that also lets in a lot of light. Not easy to do. Letting in light lets out heat and vice versa. Both are vital to the health of your palm. You will NOT be able to build closely around the trunk at ground level IMO. In extreme years, you could have a frost depth of 30 inches. You will want to create enough space between your palm and the outside that cold and frost in the ground isn't able to creep underground and kill your roots. All the while you have a toasty chamber above ground that gives you a false sense of security.

Two other important factors...building a roof that can withstand the weight of snow. If your structure collapses you will be an unhappy camper. Prepare for power outages. Ice and snow storms can knock out power lines. No power, no heat. No heat, dead coconut.

Humidity is important. However, unless you have very warm soil you will have to cut water in winter back to nearly nil. Cool/wet soil is deadly to coconuts. So providing humidity may need to be done an other way besides the evaporation from the water in the soil/sand.

Sabal Steve is correct...prepare yourself for the electric bill that may result. And remember what is required to keep you Butia and Trachy alive will not be enough for a Coconut. Coconuts are true tropicals. If you can, I urge you to do it. You will love it! The challenge will be an awfully lot of fun.

[jfrye01@live.com]

Wow! Great advice and encouragement! Thanks! Now here's the big question...where would one buy a coconut?

[Hammer]

You try to find someone in Florida to send you some. You could try to germinate some from the grocery store. Hard to do. I've not been successful. The blue or the orange big box store might have some. That's where I got mine. They sell them as house plants.

[Sabal Steve]

  On 2/15/2014 at 4:32 PM, Hammer said:

It's doable but not easy Jacob. I'm in Southern California, my coldest temp during the last 2 years is 32 degrees for maybe an hour. Coconuts are tough to grow here much less in Kansas. I am going to disagree a bit with some of the advice above and agree with some. Here's my take on actually growing in the ground as nature intended...

There is a barely able to survive zone of conditions you might provide and a thriving/growing zone. Strive to provide those thriving growing conditions. Otherwise, it will eventually succumb to pests or disease easier.

60 degrees is the low end of the surviving zone. Coconuts can handle temps lower but if they are consistently at or below 60 degrees you will slowly kill your palm. The closer to 80 degrees the better!

Temps in Kansas will be brutal! I grew up in Nebraska. I know what those polar expresses can bring down from Canada. IMHO, Xmas lights and heating coils will not provide enough heat to keep your palm alive through even a single Kansas winter. They work in Cali but won't be enough on the Great Plains. I would use some kind of radiator style heater. You can pick them up at one of the major box stores. I recommend a radiator because it will heat the entire environment without making the dry conditions worse.

It is absolutely essential that you mound plant. Basically build a two to three foot tall mound and plant on top of that. I would use nearly pure sand. This will help with drainage. You may want to make the mound fairly wide. Coconut roots can travel.

You will need to build a very well insulated structure that also lets in a lot of light. Not easy to do. Letting in light lets out heat and vice versa. Both are vital to the health of your palm. You will NOT be able to build closely around the trunk at ground level IMO. In extreme years, you could have a frost depth of 30 inches. You will want to create enough space between your palm and the outside that cold and frost in the ground isn't able to creep underground and kill your roots. All the while you have a toasty chamber above ground that gives you a false sense of security.

Two other important factors...building a roof that can withstand the weight of snow. If your structure collapses you will be an unhappy camper. Prepare for power outages. Ice and snow storms can knock out power lines. No power, no heat. No heat, dead coconut.

Humidity is important. However, unless you have very warm soil you will have to cut water in winter back to nearly nil. Cool/wet soil is deadly to coconuts. So providing humidity may need to be done an other way besides the evaporation from the water in the soil/sand.

Sabal Steve is correct...prepare yourself for the electric bill that may result. And remember what is required to keep you Butia and Trachy alive will not be enough for a Coconut. Coconuts are true tropicals. If you can, I urge you to do it. You will love it! The challenge will be an awfully lot of fun.

Some additions that I didn't account for, good advice.

[US_Marine]

It would be best to plant it in a large container with light but well draining soil instead. Their roots do grow fast and deep and you'd just be cuting the roots back often when you moved it back inside.That would just be allowing entry points for pathogens. From my personal experience they do not mind heat (100f+) or low humidity (oftenly below 20%) as long as they are well watered. California's Central valley is very hot and dry in the summer. None of mine have had problems with it, but they can be easily sun burned if you don't acclimate them properly when taking them back out in spring.

The one pictured in my avatar was about 4 years old at the time of the pic. They do ok as indoor/outdoor plants but are pretty fussy in winter. The only problem is eventually they outgrow your house, and even if you build a green house, they will out grow that as well. I've been thinking how I could get one to survive passed maturity here as well but most green houses are too small. You'd have to build one from scratch. its always worth a shot though!

I think the best chances would be from a fiji dwarf but I have not been able to find one. Does anyone know where to get one?

[cobra2326]

Do you have a south-facing window? I once grew a coconut in my master bathroom tub for a whole winter (in northern FL, before I moved in) and it did fine. Like others have said, the key is low temps > 55F (ideally 65F) and Highs at least in the 70s. If you can provide this, year round, you'll be able to grow it. Just put it in well-draining soil and water thoroughly once it starts to dry out.

Feel free to message me if you want. I'm growing tons of stuff out-of-zone in a heated sunroom right now.

[Hammer]

Thanks Steve!

[jfrye01@live.com]

I think I'm gonna give it a try! You all have given me optimism! Which coconut does best in a pot? Is there one that's better than others?

[Hammer]

Great advice Cobra and Marine for maintaining them in pots.

[Peter Pacific]

I wish I was in the States jfrye, to bring coconuts into the country from Guatemala can be terrifying when going through customs! The coconuts get very tall some of mine are 25-30 feet and are still growing. Even the dwarfs are a good twenty feet. If I were you I would build a very tall conservatory and leave them inside with your Lipstick palms and Salcca zalaccas (just like Fairchild)! LOL!

Have fun j and never feel stupid for thinking what you can do with your palms...this is palmtalk, we all get a little crazy from time to time!

Peter

[jfrye01@live.com]

Thanks Peter!! When I was 10 years old, back in 2004, I picked up a coconut on the ground in front of our condo and placed in my carryon suitcase. I didn't think anything about it, had no idea it was illegal (I was just a naive kid), and my parents didn't know. US Customs in Atlanta didn't catch it, and I have no idea how they didn't. They did, however, catch my brother's souvenir snowglobe and made him throw it away...but missed my volleyball-sized coco...Anyway, when I returned home, I placed the coconut on my shelf by the window for decoration and all but forgot about it...about two weeks later, however, I noticed a green shoot sticking out of my coco...it had sprouted from being in the sun! I still have NO idea how...the thing was dry as a bone! However, since I knew nothing about growing plants, the little guy shriveled up and died within a week:/ I go to Playa del Carmen, Quintana Roo, Mexico every year and have considered bringing a coconut back and trying it, however, it is MUCH too risky as US customs is way out of control these days...hahaha:P However, I have considered road tripping to FL and picking a few up:)

[jfrye01@live.com]

I just thought of something I didn't think of before...let me know what y'all think...Anyway, on the south side of my house, there are two exhaust ports...one for the furnace, and one for the water heater...these exhaust tubes are about a foot off the ground...is it possible these would produce enough heat to keep a protected coco above freezing??

[Sabal Steve]

  On 2/17/2014 at 6:07 AM, jfrye01@live.com said:

I just thought of something I didn't think of before...let me know what y'all think...Anyway, on the south side of my house, there are two exhaust ports...one for the furnace, and one for the water heater...these exhaust tubes are about a foot off the ground...is it possible these would produce enough heat to keep a protected coco above freezing??

I'm not sure if they would produce enough heat, but would definitely be worth additional investigation - an easy way to cut down on heating costs.

[Phoenikakias]

  On 2/17/2014 at 6:07 AM, jfrye01@live.com said:

I just thought of something I didn't think of before...let me know what y'all think...Anyway, on the south side of my house, there are two exhaust ports...one for the furnace, and one for the water heater...these exhaust tubes are about a foot off the ground...is it possible these would produce enough heat to keep a protected coco above freezing??

Only if you enclose all around and above the plant with a plastic frame and meke sure that furnace and w/h still work at night!

[redant]

google bonsai coconut tree, thats the direction you need to go, otherwise you will have a monster before you know it. I did what you thinking when I lived in CT, worked great for years.

You would not be able to give a coconut enough heat to survive outside in KS short of a nuclear reactor.

[palmsOrl]

It would be do-able to keep a small greenhouse above 50F at night and 70F by day with a powerful space heater (or two regular ones). It would be costly and power outages, high winds or snow load could be disastrous.

[tjwalters]

I don't think this was mentioned yet, but it is critical to keep the soil warm - above 60°F. That might be very difficult to do if the palm is planted in the ground in Kansas. It's definitely not enough to just keep the air temperature warm.

[palmsOrl]

I wonder how large of a radius of ground around the palm would have to be under the heated enclosure for the ground to be kept warm enough? Six feet maybe?

[stevethegator]

  On 2/18/2014 at 2:01 AM, tjwalters said:

I don't think this was mentioned yet, but it is critical to keep the soil warm - above 60°F. That might be very difficult to do if the palm is planted in the ground in Kansas. It's definitely not enough to just keep the air temperature warm.

It's also not enough to keep it above freezing. Coconuts will survive a dry, quick drop to slightly below freezing as long as it's sunny and the temperatures rebound quickly (as is typical in Florida occasionally)

But, temperatures in the 40s and even 50s, with no sun and rain for a few days will kill them dead, as is typical in fall and spring in the continental US.

My parents had six coconuts with between 10-20 feet of wood in their yard in Southeast Florida. In 2010 it only got to 31 or so at their house, but that day it rained all day and the high was only in the 40s. 4 of the six coconuts eventually died and one of the survivors is just now starting to look normal 4 years later.

There's just no way, outside of a temperature controlled hothouse including the soil that a coconut would survive "in the ground" in a temperate climate.

They will grow as house plants for several years and you can "dwarf" them by root pruning, but they need a lot of light. Also watch out for spider mites!

[Tropicdoc]

Glad to see I'm not the only nut job trying this. Got a few cocos in the greenhouse pushing fronds even after the arctic vortex. Tallest are at about 6 feet tall.

[Donald Sanders]

I am often amazed by dwarf coconut trees. I have seen some very small coconut trees in garden collections. Many, many years ago when I lived in SCal, I grew Hawaiian coconuts in 15 gallon pots. Out side except for the cool months, they grew beautifully. The months in the house I kept them in front of huge windows and they baked inside the house there. I kept them wet. Out side again in the spring.

They grew huge and heavy in the 15 gallon pots. I grew them for years and gave them away when I moved to the Big Island many years ago.

Coconuts are beautiful in pots too!

My only suggestion to you is to try and find some of the several dwarf coconuts. I see them here both gold and green dwarfs.

If you can't find them, I have a source in Puna on the other side of the island over 100 miles from where I live. I don't get there as often as I like but the next time I'm there I'll look for some dwarf coconuts.

Good luck, Aloha, Don

[Tropicdoc]

My greenhouse coconuts had a rough winter since we were colder than normal. Our low was 23, which is not average and we had several super cold intervening days. However, my coconuts are pushing fronds now that spring is beginning. I can easily hit 100 F in the greenhouse now if I'm not careful. I am in warm 9a though which is way warmer than Kansas. I was worried the night of 23 that my little 1500 W space heater would not keep me above freezing. It did, though. The few days or weeks of exceptionally low temps, I did not water the plants at all. I think that is one of the keys to success keeping cocos alive in a temperate climate. Super dry if chilly. Wet if warm. That is also the key with heliconias also, which I have had success with.