Unleashed in Urbenville

[Daryl]

A recent cross country shortcut by the Green twins (shy palmtalkers Newcal and AndyG) resulted in the chance discovery of an unusual looking Bangalow palm (Archontophoenix cunninghamiana) growing on the roadside near the town of Urbenville NSW, just south of the Queensland border.

There have been recent and past discussions on Palmtalk about the cold temperatures experienced in this area on occasion. So, the bait was set, with the possibility of finding a palm that was cold tolerant but first and foremost had a different crown shape to the typical Bangalow. A Ratpack expedition was planned to explore the area and see what all of the fuss was about...

The initial idea was to spend a weekend there, overnighting at a local hotel and enjoying the local hospitality. However, time and money got in the way so it turned into a day trip. Not a big issue as Urbenville is approximately a 2 hour drive from the Gold Coast.

So the Green boys, Wal and myself all set out one fine Sunday for a drive through the countryside of SE Queensland and over the border to northern NSW. This is an area of natural beauty, with many old volcanic remnants and great scenery, so the drive was a memorable one!

The drive was full of surprises though, as only 20 minutes into our trip we missed a motorcycle accident by about 30 seconds, Fortunately the rider was relatively OK and was receiving assistance so we continued on to our first stop in Canungra for breakfast. I'll let Wal add to this later as he had the cellphone camera fired up in the cafe and snapped a few interesting photos...

After feasting on our egg and bacon rolls (healthy heart breakfast!) we continued on to the west, and then headed south on the Mt Lindesay Highway. A few minutes south of the town of Beaudesert we had another near call, with a drunken Koala narrowly missing the front of our 4X4 as we drove past...a lucky last minute swerve from Newcal and the Koala was saved from becoming roadkill. We had just got over that near miss when we had to swerve again to miss a Lace Monitor on the road...it seemed like all the wildlife had a death-wish that morning...just as we were feeling good about it all, a small bird committed suicide on the front of the vehicle just to shut us up! Newcal 1 - Finch 0!

And so on we continued, on our southerly track...here's a few photos of the countryside enroute...

The most obvious landmarks are the two tallest mountains in the area, My Barney and Mt Lindesay. There are a few others around as well, the remnants of volcanic activity millions of years ago. You certainly can't miss them as you drive down the highway. Mt Barney is the 2nd tallest mountain in Queensland at more than 1350 metres (4400 ft), but that is a story for another day...

Here we are headed down the Mt Lindesay Highway, with some distant peaks poking over the horizon

Mt Barney comes into view near the town of Rathdowney

The road starts to wind through the mountains and the vegetation changes

Mt Lindesay looms in the distance

And then dominates the scenery

Just nearby we see our first Bangalow Palm in a deep valley along a watercourse.

Enough of the mountain photos...time for palms!

[Daryl]

We continued to head south, crossing the border into New South and soon after, stopping in the town of Woodenbong

Here we found a few palms in cultivation and the tell-tale signs of cold damage were everywhere...here are some Phoenix roebelenii at Woodenbong Hotel that were growing out of their winter coat...we stopped for a look and a counter lunch...

They also had Syagrus romanzoffianum and Phoenix canariensis growing in town, but not much else palm-wise..we talked to the publican who told us that it gets down to -5C on quite a few mornings most winters...so certainly a frosty climate. We did notice a property a few kilometres out of town on a rise that had Archontophoenix alexandrae growing in near-perfect health. Goes to show what a little local elevation does, with the benefits of cold air drainage...and illustrates the differences in temperatures experienced in the same area...top of hill...almost frost free...The publican did state that the frost went up all of the hills though, not just the valley floors...

Heading down the road a bit, a little further south to the town of Urbenville...not too much to see there apart from Crown Mountain. There were very few palms growing in town that we could see..just a few Livistona australis and some Syagrus romanzoffianum...not one Archontophoenix, unless it was hidden from the road...I wonder if this is because it is just too cold in the winter, or maybe the townfolk just aren't into palms...

Anyway, we headed out of town to some local rainforest...a strange experience going from grassy pastures to rainforest in the blink of an eye...

Now, it must be said that the remnant rainforest we entered was at a higher altitude than the township, a small hilly range with towering trees and palms a'plenty...here are some Bangalows growing by the roadside...not too much overhead protection there...

[Walter John]

On the way to the lost world of rare bangalows I heard a loud rumbling sound down a ravine. I called out to Mike to stop the car, then Daryl bravely got out to capture this roaring herd of Livistona australis palms as it raced up the gully. Dangerous as it may look, the australis herd stopped short as Daryl aimed and shot. Then we moved on.

[Daryl]

Moving further into the forest...

The dominant trees growing there are Eucalyptus grandis - Flooded Gums...these things are huge rainforest trees and are often found with Livistona australis and Archontophonoenix cunninghamiana on the east coast rainforests...

A lot of the Bangalows there had purple crownshafts...almost as colourful as Archontophoenix purpurea...this matches the Lilac coloured flowers and contrasts well with the red fruit...

Livistona australis lookin' good

[Daryl]

Here's one of the huge E.grandis that tower over the forest

And three ratpackers...

Mike found a magic staff...I think he's watched the Hobbit too many times...

Wal then found another... (love the T-Shirt BTW Wal!)

Andy was out of luck, and the main thing on his mind was to avoid the widow maker branches that fall off those huge E.grandis...

As you can see, the road wasn't too busy with traffic....

[Walter John]

I was casting a gandalf type spell on an Archontophoenix cunninghamiana to reveal it's true identity, because it looked like an alex, a purpurea and a bangalow all at the same time.

[Daryl]

One of these falling on your head from 200ft would leave a decent mark

Some of the usual suspects in the rainforest...Platycerium, Cyathea and Livistona

[Daryl]

And the lovely understorey palm Linospadix monostachya was growing everywhere...

several different leaf forms as well

...love the T-shirt Wal!

Colourful fruit everywhere

[Daryl]

And the reason for the drive...the Shuttlecock Bangalow

These were growing amongst more regular looking Bangalows, but had a much more upright crown, even on older palms, and other features such as shorter petioles and less leaf twist.

Definitely a Bangalow...

Time for a quick snack...the boys don't seem to be enjoying those jam rolls?

And so ended our little mini Ratpack expedition...found the palm we were after, and sussed out the local area...although the low valleys do get very frosty, the general concensus was that a lot of the Bangalows in this area grow on higher ground where it is warmer...not to say they can't tolerate colder temperatures, but they do favour the warmer hills with some canopy...

Daryl

[Tyrone]

Great little scenic tour guys. Thanks for sharing. Those shuttlecock Bangalows definitely look different. Maybe a new species?????????

Amazed that rainforest and palms can grow near such a freezing cold part of the country.

[virtualpalm]

Awesome photo travelogue. Thanks for sharing.

[Xhoniwaters1]

Now, I'm not sure if this spectacle was something new to you, but for me seeing pictures of a purple cunninghamiana and a upright cunninghamiana is a real delight. Thanks guys!

[Alberto]

Very intersting travelogue.When I see eucs here, I´m sure I am in disturbed and generally destroyed habitats. That is, of course, different in Australia. But when I see pics of big eucalyptus in forests,rationally I know it´s normal native habitat, but my 'feelings' about them are 'strange'.... Difficult to explain...in my mind it seems that eucalyptus are incompatible with with other palms, specially understory palms ....

[paulgila]

pretty countryside. thanks for sharing!

[Bennz]

Heading down the road a bit, a little further south to the town of Urbenville...not too much to see there apart from Crown Mountain. There were very few palms growing in town that we could see..just a few Livistona australis and some Syagrus romanzoffianum...not one Archontophoenix, unless it was hidden from the road...I wonder if this is because it is just too cold in the winter, or maybe the townfolk just aren't into palms...

Thanks for these pictures Daryl. I've spent maybe two weeks in Urbenville in total, and there are bangalows in backyards, but mainly tucked up close against buildings.

Did you collect seeds? There was a guy from SF Bay area who collected seeds there last year. A road-trip diversion from his stay in Sydney(!!!!). You might provoke local interest if enough people turn up in town and ask directions to the local palm populations.

Edited January 20, 2014 by Bennz

[realarch]

Always enjoy the narrative Daryl, feels like I'm there with you. Do I have to sit by Wal on the next trip?

I've noticed, with all of the A. alexandrae's here on the island, some also have a shuttle cock form which makes it look like another species.

Tim

[zootropical]

Thank you very much. Does Australia endure as us in Europe very cold winter (with 5 to 10 °C below normal)?

Sincerely.

[Walter John]

Thank you very much. Does Australia endure as us in Europe very cold winter (with 5 to 10 °C below normal)?

Sincerely.

In some mid New South Wales towns it does drop severely and of course up in the Snowy Mts. Mostly Australia is a warm place generally in comparison to Europe. When it comes to the usage of the word "endurance" in this country, we immediatly think of the heat, the humidity, the bushfires, the seasonal storms including cyclones and floods and the southerners can go through some bitter windy cold sent up from Antartica. It's a tough place, but it's the best place, yes, I am prejudiced .

[Jonathan]

No, our winters have been normal, in regard to temperatures. Rainfall is always erratic in Australia though!

We dont get continental freezes in Australia, because it is basically a tropical/subtropical continent surrounded by warm water.

All our frosts are radiation frosts due to clear skies in winter, not advective frosts with wind, as in Europe and North America.

Daryl/Wal - thanks for the photo's, looks like a very nice form of Bangalow and well worth cultivating whether it's cold resistant or not.

You guys live in a pretty handy part of the world!

Cheers,

Jonathan

[Jonathan]

Geez Wal, you pipped me by seconds...

[Walter John]

I forgot to bring my camera so only have a few pics from my mobile (cell). I haven't hung out with the ratpack for quite some time, so for me, the whole day was a lot of fun, although by the end of the day we were getting tired and so were our jokes, like this one that got booed by the boys, if there were a lot of Colin Wilsons then he would be Colony Wilson, haha, get it ? ah, doesn't matter. Onward with some photos:

It was rather uncanny that the unusal alex looking cunninghamianas grew nearby the regular form of bangalow, they were growing singly mainly and in one spot, a whole group had the shuttle crown form. Either way it's a real pleasure seeing these wonderful palms in habitat. I believe this is the first time I have seen them grow amongst the monster gum trees (Eucalyptus grandis). I have never seen so many different coloured crownshafts either, one of them looked red/maroon.

A solo Livistona came down the hill to say hi and join the other palms to greet us.

[Walter John]

These walking sticks were tucked in the shallow gullies just off the road and under canopy.

Mmm, a necklace for ma darlin'..

The gums of Navarone...I mean, the gums of Urbenville,

hey Andy !!, where you going ? Oh, watch out for the widow makers..

[Kostas]

Great tour,thank you very much for the awesome photos Daryl and Wal!!! Much appreciated! Love your rainforests!

[Walter John]

Looks like I did photo that red one.

I might add that it is tradition for the Aussie ratpack to play ELO music on our drive to palm tree research/exploring and this day was no different, "It's a Living Thing" people.

[Tyrone]

Looks like I did photo that red one.

I might add that it is tradition for the Aussie ratpack to play ELO music on our drive to palm tree research/exploring and this day was no different, "It's a Living Thing" people.

urb1 (585x1024).jpg

OK. With the music thing. I kind of picture a Will Ferrel movie moment. Like something out of Anchorman 2.

[Tassie_Troy1971]

Great day had by all the Ratpack

The bangalows always look perfect in habitat . Mine get all the leaflets knocked around by strong winds down here .

[Alberto]

Very nice walking sticks. This also could be hardier? Besides Livistona australis and bangalows, are there other palms in this region?

[palmislandRandy]

Thanks for bringing us along. Those palms in habitat are awesome .

[Pedro 65]

Great outing and coverage men The "Proof is in the pudding" and to "anyone " thinking the Nat pks/ rainforests of this area have freezing" winters .."They dont" as the Rat pack has pretty well "cemented". Great to see pics of the infamous Bangalows without the "usual slant" There are certainly "many variants" of Bangalows ( Archontophoenix cunninghamia) ).

Do any of you Ratpackers have pics of when you crossed the border from Rainforest NSW to Fully cleared Qld .. ( orders from J Bjelke Petersen) ??

Thanks for the "concrete thread" Pete

[Jonathan]

Pete,

I can't really see how visiting an area in summer proves winters dont have the odd cold night.

Am I missing something?

Cheers,

Jonathan

[Daryl]

Very intersting travelogue.When I see eucs here, I´m sure I am in disturbed and generally destroyed habitats. That is, of course, different in Australia. But when I see pics of big eucalyptus in forests,rationally I know it´s normal native habitat, but my 'feelings' about them are 'strange'.... Difficult to explain...in my mind it seems that eucalyptus are incompatible with with other palms, specially understory palms ....

Alberto, E.grandis is common in these situations, and does not appear to impact on other plants/palms growing in association with them...one of the Eucalypts that is not so bad, even though I'm sure they are very thirsty trees as they are only found in wet areas. The falling branches would do some damage to under-storey though.

[Daryl]

Heading down the road a bit, a little further south to the town of Urbenville...not too much to see there apart from Crown Mountain. There were very few palms growing in town that we could see..just a few Livistona australis and some Syagrus romanzoffianum...not one Archontophoenix, unless it was hidden from the road...I wonder if this is because it is just too cold in the winter, or maybe the townfolk just aren't into palms...

Thanks for these pictures Daryl. I've spent maybe two weeks in Urbenville in total, and there are bangalows in backyards, but mainly tucked up close against buildings.

Did you collect seeds? There was a guy from SF Bay area who collected seeds there last year. A road-trip diversion from his stay in Sydney(!!!!). You might provoke local interest if enough people turn up in town and ask directions to the local palm populations.

Hi Ben, There was some seed around but we did not collect it as it was a state forest... The only seed of the Shuttlecock Bangalow was lost in impenetrable Lantana unfortunately.

[Daryl]

Always enjoy the narrative Daryl, feels like I'm there with you. Do I have to sit by Wal on the next trip?

I've noticed, with all of the A. alexandrae's here on the island, some also have a shuttle cock form which makes it look like another species.

Tim

Hi Tim, There are a lot of shuttlecock Alexandrae in Queensland too..in cultivation here on the Goldy...I also have seen many of the upright form in Cairns gardens, and surrounding countryside.

RE: Wal...I'm sure he would enjoy the company...maybe we will all be in Miami...

Daryl

[Daryl]

Thank you very much. Does Australia endure as us in Europe very cold winter (with 5 to 10 °C below normal)?

Sincerely.

Jean-Michel, the last couple of winters have been normal...this summer is above average in heat though...maybe to balance the cold northern winter?

[Daryl]

Daryl/Wal - thanks for the photo's, looks like a very nice form of Bangalow and well worth cultivating whether it's cold resistant or not.

You guys live in a pretty handy part of the world!

Cheers,

Jonathan

Yes, Jonathan, our own little slice of paradise with plenty to see and do...and a lot of palms seem to like it too!

[Daryl]

Great day had by all the Ratpack

The bangalows always look perfect in habitat . Mine get all the leaflets knocked around by strong winds down here .

Troy, they really are a rainforest palm eh! Too much exposure to wind or sun and they look very ordinary...maybe the shuttlecock form would be better in the wind?

[Daryl]

Very nice walking sticks. This also could be hardier? Besides Livistona australis and bangalows, are there other palms in this region?

Alberto, Walking sticks are quite hardy to cool/cold , but always under canopy. The only other palm species that may be around, although we didn't see it, is Calamus muelleri...it grows within an hour of that area.

[Walter John]

Very nice walking sticks. This also could be hardier? Besides Livistona australis and bangalows, are there other palms in this region?

Hi Alberto, there are Calamus meulleri palms in the area, I think the others said they saw a plant or two. Personally I love seeing Linospadix monostachya palms in these rainforest areas, as they look so dainty and grow in narrow gaps of the understory, plus, they come in different forms of wide leaf, narrow leaf and a combination of both, some are tall, some are short. Whilst Archo cunninghamiana are the palm kings around these parts, and that can sometimes be argued against from the Livistonas in the red corner, it is the beauty of the walking stick palm that captures my attention every time.

[Daryl]

I would assume that is gets quite cold, and possibly near freezing in the more exposed areas near the forest. The canopy would certainly trap warmth and create a microclimate. The more exposed palms would endure cooler temps...the only way to tell would be to set up a monitoring station and compare with the one in Urbenville township. The higher position would certainly allow for more drainage of cold air, and that would head down to the township. Rathdowney, just over the border to the north would get quite cold on occasion too and we saw Poinciana flowering there last weekend on some properties a little more elevated.

[Walter John]

Great day had by all the Ratpack

The bangalows always look perfect in habitat . Mine get all the leaflets knocked around by strong winds down here .

Troy, they really are a rainforest palm eh! Too much exposure to wind or sun and they look very ordinary...maybe the shuttlecock form would be better in the wind?

Good point Daryl, this is the natural environment conditions for these palms, you are best served not planting them out like an alex etc.no matter what form you have, sp.Joe Bloggs etc., it doesn't matter, they want to grow amongst a crowd of plants.