Hardy king palms - reality or myth

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Is there such a thing as a specially hardy king palm? There is a lot of talk of folks in Central California and the Bay area looking for special strains of king palms from colder locales in Australia that might have a cold hardy adaptation. Over the years, I've played with various such strains, only to find out that the hardiest version of the king palm that gets the least cosmetic damage from Winter frost inevitably ends up being the "big box store" king palm, the plain and boring king palm.

Here's a pretty mixed bag of results of the various strains and species that I know about:

1) Archontophoenix cunningama "illawara"

This palm is that it's supposed to come from the most Southerly provenance of a. cunningama and was the "hot new thing" in the late '90's. I planted a few of these, and they are by far the fastest growing king palm I've ever seen. However, it's also the most frost tender of all king palms, being even more frost tender than myolensis or alexandrae. Frost in the 30-32F range will do cosmetic damage, as will do the least amount of wind, and any sun over 90F. I've discovered that illawara looks fabulous under canopy, but looks like crap in full sun. I am about to cut down a 30 feet specimen not only because it looks like crap but because it's starting to block my solar panels.

2) Archontophoenix cunningama "Waterford"

This is a king palm strain that a fellow in Waterford brought in, he paid a commercial seed collector to go higher up into the Mountains where it gets colder to get seed. He has not gotten an exact collection location tag on these. They turned out not to survive the cold USDA 9a conditions found in Waterford. I grow one of these, and it seems much more resistant to cosmetic frost damage, I am quite happy with it. It also appears to be a cooler growing species, mine looks like it's about to bloom.

3) Archontophoenix cunningama "UCSC"

The UCSC arboretum has several large king palms growing under canopy. These king palms were planted before 1990 and survived the great California Century freeze of 1990, through several days of 19-25F. There is a record somewhere as to where the seed were collected, but I don't have that information. These are the hardiest king palms I have ever seen.

4) Archontophoenix Maxima

Ben from New Zealand back in the late 1990's relayed to me info about an archontophoenix maxima growing near his relatives in Queensland, where the claim was that they took the low 20's on a fairly regular basis without even defoliating. When a. maxima became available from South Coast Palms around 1999, I ordered some, and I've been planting them ever since because they grow very fast in my climate. However, they do show some frond burn when we get freezes in the 28F range. But it's much less burn than illawara. My largest specimen is about 20 feet tall and has a beautiful black trunk.

5) Archontophoenix 'Inge Hoffmann'

This is the 1990 Century freeze great king palm survivor from Inge Hoffmann's garden in San Leandro. Not sure where these came from, supposed to be a lower latitude but higher elevation further inland where there are commercial citrus orchards. Some rumors are it's near "Mount Barney National Park" area. Flora Grubb propagates these, and I grow it here. It looks very different from the "big box store" king palms. Santa Cruz was a lot colder than San Leandro in 1990, so I suspect the specimens at the UCSC arboretum remain the hardiest king palms I have ever seen in cultivation.

6) Archontophoenix 'Big Box Store'

This thing grows all over inland Southern California where it seems to take frost and freezes in the 27-29F range without any cosmetic damages. I see them all over Riverside, and I've never seen any frost damage on them. I grow a couple of these that I picked up at OSH, and they seem to be the hardiest, least likely to see any cosmetic frost damage. There are several in Santa Cruz that also never show any frost damage, even for example after this Winter.

So is there a specially hardy version of king palm out there that won't get cosmetic frost damage from 27-28F? I don't know, so far, special seed collections in supposedly cold/cooler areas seem to have failed to deliver on their promise. The results seem to suggest it's best to go to Home Depot or OSH. However, I am still holding out hope for Inge's strain, and if the UCSC king palms ever produce seed, I may get some. They don't get water or enough sunlight there, so I doubt I will ever get any seed.

One thing I know for sure, I can't wait to cut down my illawara, it's not worth the trouble.

[Mandrew968]

Interesting post and a great question, Axel.

[Xhoniwaters1]

Neat info. How can one tell the difference from a illawara form and just another regular cunninghamiana disregarding the cold/frost resistance? I guess if my 3 footer ends up surviving this last cold blast that will say a lot. Got the seedlings from Cali.

[Eric in Orlando]

I haven't noticed the "Illawarra" form being any hardier that A. cunninghamiana. In fact, back in the winter of 1995-96 we had a few light freezes/frosts in late Dec./early Jan. Nothing below about 29-30F but enough to cause some damage. Then in Feb. 1996 it dropped to 26F one night. This cumulative effect caused more damage than just one night of 26F. We had several "Illawarra" specimens out and they all died while A. cunninghamiana survived.

[Jeff Searle]

I found the A. cunninghamiana and it's form to be the poorest growers of the genera.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

I found the A. cunninghamiana and it's form to be the poorest growers of the genera.

It's true, even though it's the hardiest, the other species of archontophoenix are far more vigorous.

[Tassie_Troy1971]

Axel

I have noticed no difference between the normal Archontophoenix cuninghamiana Illawarra and the normal strain although i never get below 30 F down here .

It is the strong wind that makes a mess of the leaflets that annoys me although my Archontophoenix alexandrae is a little more wind tolerant ,

Troy

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Axel

I have noticed no difference between the normal Archontophoenix cuninghamiana Illawarra and the normal strain although i never get below 30 F down here .

It is the strong wind that makes a mess of the leaflets that annoys me although my Archontophoenix alexandrae is a little more wind tolerant ,

Troy

How long have you been growing them? I didn't see a difference until I got a few feet of trunk. At that point the illawara just took off, the rings are twice as wide as on a regular king palm. But it's super intolerant of wind and frost.

[Jim in Los Altos]

My mature thirty plus 'Illawara' are somewhat wimps to cold compared to my ten standard cunninghamiana and their leaves tatter even easier in wind or hot, dry sun. The plus is that they are incredibly more robust growers in cooler climates so winter damage can disappear before summer. In shady, wind protected positions they look wonderful.

My 'Inge Hoffmann' are stunners by comparison and have never shown ANY winter or summer stress. They grow at the same rate as standard cunninghamiana. They're in a grove of mixed Archontophonix and are the only ones that always look perfect in that area.

I have two A. alexandrae. One has never been damaged in winter and the other burns annually but grows several new leaves by mid summer. These look good during hot dry summer events too.

A. pupurea is similar in hardiness to standard cunninghamiana in my garden.

[Dypsisdean]

Let me say that I can remember the Illawara "myth" and hype back when I started this "hobby" - in the 80s.

And let me ask - is it just coincidence that what ever someone has as the new thing to sell just happens to be the most cold hardy, highest elevation or latitude - or with some other desirable trait?

[Daryl]

Back in the early 1980s I went hiking in the national park down there at Durras Mountain, with the (at the time) Sydney Chapter of the IPS. We went in search of this palm, not known as 'Illawarra' in those days, but simply the most southern stand of A.cunninghamina.

It doesn't surprise me that they are not cold hardy...the area where they grow is less than a kilometre from the ocean, in dense rainforest with thick canopy. This should give you some idea of their requirements...mild temperatures with no extremes due to their locality and habit, protection from wind and plentiful moisture.

So, even though they are the most southerly population, they are only found in a very mild, protected environment.

Google Durras Mountain or Pebbly Beach to see what the area looks like...this will give you more of an idea...

Daryl

[Darold Petty]

For some reason I cannot 'cut and paste' using Ctrl-c and then Ctrl-v. Search an old thread with the word... Urbenville.

[Tropicgardener]

It is interesting to see the different 'forms' listed by growers in the U.S........ As I type this post I am looking out of my window at natural stands of Archontophoenix alexandrae growing along the creek across the road from my property. I can't really comment on the cold hardiness but I found that A. cunninghamiana certainly is not as hardy as A. alexandrae in the tropics/warm subtropics.......A. cunninghamiana always seems to look better in the cooler parts of the subtropics and warm temperate zones than it does here........To the southwest of me here A. cunninghamiana occurs at moderate altitude (mixed with A. alexandrae) along the Clarke Range at Eungella but down at lower altitude A. cunninghamiana does not exist. A. alexandrae also seems to be slightly more drought tolerant too, during an extended drought period when I was living in Bundaberg (warm subtropics) I noticed that all non-irrigated Archontophoenix suffered severely but most of the A. alexandrae recovered whilst the A. cunninghamiana were just about wiped out.

[Tyrone]

I doubt that there is truly a cold hardy Archontophoenix out there, as already stated, where Archontophoenix grow can get cool, but not frigid cold. Archontophoenix alexandrae growing up at Eungella are fascinating though as they grow in what is a very cool climate during winter at elevation in the tropics. Eungella can actually get snow on top of the rainforest on very rare occasions and this can burn off the tree ferns, but A alexandrae are just so common up there growing in huge stands and the temp in the understory is quite chilly. I remember going there one winter afternoon and having to rug up to walk through the forest with steam on my breath from the cold. It was weird and there were lots of baby A alexandrae happy in those darkish cool conditions. I had a similar experience in Mt Tambourine in the Bangalow forests too.

[Jim in Los Altos]

I'm not sure what part of San Leandro Inge Hoffmann lived in but the official low temp. in the December 1990 freeze was 18F. I was told that her King palms survived 17F with daytime highs at no more than freezing during that historic Arctic event which lasted several days. There's no doubt in my mind that this strain of king palm is superior to the others. As I said earlier, the two I have growing in my garden always look healthy no matter what's thrown at them weather wise.

[Pedro 65]

Let me say that I can remember the Illawara "myth" and hype back when I started this "hobby" - in the 80s.

And let me ask - is it just coincidence that what ever someone has as the new thing to sell just happens to be the most cold hardy, highest elevation or latitude - or with some other desirable trait?

Yes and "myths" for some reason become "very believed"

1 Arch cunninghammia's are "natural" in "Rainforest" which is be free of frost.

2 Myth.... Urbenville "rarely" sees winter mins "below 0c, so the "taked about temp" of -8c is a Myth.

3 Best Looking Arch cunninhamia "Ive seen" in the wild is at MT Barney Nat Pk, they "do not" hold their leaves on their side, they look just like a "huge Archo alexandrae'

4 Being an Ozzie and seeing "tons" of "both Archo's" in the wild, Alexandrae sp is the best by far

5. The Yankee name of King Palm" for Arch cunninghamia needs to be called Bangalow which we Ozzies have called it for 200yrs, Aborigines call it Piccabeen as they used to pick the seed, cook, then eat..

Pete

[Jonathan]

Thats not quite true actually Pete.

I remember Ben in NZ telling me about the Urbenville Banga's as a possible cold hardy strain a few years back.

It might even be that the palms were not from Urbenville itself, but growing there in cultivation?

From memory his in-laws live somewhere up that way (in nth NSW, that is!) and he'd been told a word of mouth story of Bangalow survival after some pretty cold temps.

I just looked up the climate stats for the Urbenville State Forest and this is what I got http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/averages/tables/cw_057021_All.shtml .

So the all time low is -7.2C (19F), with four months of the year registering temps lower than -5C (23F) and another two months with all time lows below -2C (28F).

Even the average minimums are colder in winter than here in Hobart, so there is plenty of cold to contend with, rainforest or not.

What I have no information on is whether there are actually any Bangalows or even rainforest at Urbenville...this would need someone to go take a look, ie someone from your neck of the woods.

Think of the service you would be doing for cold hardy palm growers the world over if you could find this mythical population.

Cheers,

Jonathan

[Daryl]

Stay tuned Jonathan!

[steve99]

Stay tuned Jonathan!

You wont need to go too far Daryl. The Bangalow population at the end of my street is subject frost between two and six times a year. Well, my place is, so I cant see 300m up the road being any different.

[Mandrew968]

I found the A. cunninghamiana and it's form to be the poorest growers of the genera.

I can agree with this as well. I will also say that maxima and myolensis grow the best for us, in South Florida. Maxima can get frizzle top if the fertilizing is not regular.

[newcal]

Urbenville rainforest...Been through there in early August last year on the way back from Armidale(about 3pm in afternoon)....Very chilly then(don't know what the temp was but it was pretty cool).There were 2 different forms of A.cunninghamiana...one looked like the usual suspect while the second looked like A .alexandrae but with a 'shuttlecock' appearance.You could almost call it a A.cunninghamiana 'Strictor' form.Also there were Livistona australis (probably the best and healthiest i've ever seen in the wild).The rainforest is located just south of Urbenville on the Bonalbo stretch of road.There's a planned'Ratpack' weekender shortly down there to obtain photos and seeds....Stay Tuned...Cheers Mike Green(Newcal)

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Let me say that I can remember the Illawara "myth" and hype back when I started this "hobby" - in the 80s.

And let me ask - is it just coincidence that what ever someone has as the new thing to sell just happens to be the most cold hardy, highest elevation or latitude - or with some other desirable trait?

Yes and "myths" for some reason become "very believed"

1 Arch cunninghammia's are "natural" in "Rainforest" which is be free of frost.

2 Myth.... Urbenville "rarely" sees winter mins "below 0c, so the "taked about temp" of -8c is a Myth.

3 Best Looking Arch cunninhamia "Ive seen" in the wild is at MT Barney Nat Pk, they "do not" hold their leaves on their side, they look just like a "huge Archo alexandrae'

4 Being an Ozzie and seeing "tons" of "both Archo's" in the wild, Alexandrae sp is the best by far

5. The Yankee name of King Palm" for Arch cunninghamia needs to be called Bangalow which we Ozzies have called it for 200yrs, Aborigines call it Piccabeen as they used to pick the seed, cook, then eat..

Pete

I've been trying to answer the question for a long time as to if king palm seeds are edible. The bright red flesh makes the seeds look rather poisonous, so I've never dared to try. I tried to Google to find any references as to the seeds being edible, but I cannot find any. The name piccabeen apparently comes from the aborigines' usage of the sheaths of old leaves to make containers called pikki. They also ate the new leaf bud, but there's no references I can find that suggest they ate the seed, which are supposedly only safe for birds to eat. See Australian Bush Food.

I have a keen interest in Australian bush foods, I grow both Davidson and Burdekin plums as well as Australian limes.

To bring the thread back on topic, given the data I see from what folks have posted here, these hardy king palms are for real. It will be interesting to get more of these into cultivation in cooler climates.

[Bennz]

I inadvertently started the urbenville myth, and have been trying to set the record straight ever since. Funny how many people listened to my original comments, but ignore all the rest!

About 20 years ago I stayed with friends on a farm outside Urbenville. I was intrigued to hear they had massive difficulties getting citrus to grow because of the frost. Intrigued, because it was so intensely stinking hot at the time, and because of the natural bangalow populations in rainforest remnants on the farm. This was about the time I was becoming interested in palms.

Then about 15 years ago(?) my sister-in-law and her family moved to Urbenville, and while staying with them one winter I saw icicles still hanging off their second-storey balcony at 10.00am! It occurred to me that Urbenville gets very cold as well as very hot.

Then my bro-in-law got a job with Tenterfield Shire Council, and one of the things he did was record the Urbenville temperature every morning. The site where the temp. is recorded is higher up the hill than Urbenville town centre, so presumably warmer extreme lows. He told me it gets down to -5C most years, and -8C once, presumably the occaison Jonathan mentioned of -7.2C.

I never said Urbenville has a particularly cold-tolerant bangalow poplulation. What I did say is that if someone like myself in a low-heat but frost free climate was to collect seeds it would make sense to collect from the coolest, frost free area, such as Southern Illawarra, while if someone from Inland N. Florida or similar hot wet spots that also get frost was to collect suitable seeds it would make sense to aim for an inland subtropical location, such as perhaps Casino NSW or Kingaroy QLD for occaisonally frosty high summer heat climates, or Urbenville NSW or higher up the Range for climates with cooler winters and heavier frost.

I recall seeing a few bangalows near the summit of Gibraltar Range, I recall some climate stats suggesting some parts of that region has mean monthly low of -2C in winter. If true, this should be a much more likely contender for true cold tolerant bangalow than Urbenville area. Or the stunted bangalows at Bar Mountain, near the lookout looking toward Murwillumbah. At 1100m elevation, does this form have cold tolerance? Or perhaps it is the same as the ones down on the subtropical lowlands beneath. The only way to find out is to try them out.

Alberto has bangalows from seeds my bro-in-law sent from Urbenville. I wonder if they have shown any extra cold tolerance?

Edited January 14, 2014 by Bennz

[_Keith]

1) Archontophoenix cunningama "illawara" was good here easily to 26, but at 20 it was beyond dead. I say 9b with damage, 9a no way.

[Xhoniwaters1]

To actually identify and confirm a King palm that grows in habitat that see's temperatures drop to -6c -7c would be great news and people like myself would be eager to grow them.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

To actually identify and confirm a King palm that grows in habitat that see's temperatures drop to -6c -7c would be great news and people like myself would be eager to grow them.

The ones at UCSC did survive 1990, they came from seed that were collected in habitat, I don't know where though. Official low for Santa Cruz foothills in 1990 was 22F with a duration of 12-14 hours, followed by a night of 25F and another at 28F. I posted temps from the Delaveaga station for that time. You be the judge.

De Laveaga - Monterey Bay - Station 104

Date Hour Air Temp (°F) 12/21/1990 0100 35.4 0200 33.7 0300 32.1 0400 30.0 0500 28.8 0600 28.2 0700 27.9 0800 27.6 0900 30.7 1000 33.1 1100 35.1 1200 37.8 1300 39.7 1400 39.6 1500 39.6 1600 38.4 1700 35.1 1800 31.2 1900 29.6 2000 29.0 2100 28.5 2200 27.6 2300 26.9 2400 26.2 Tots/Avgs 32.2

De Laveaga - Monterey Bay - Station 104

Date Hour Air Temp (°F) 12/22/1990 0100 25.9 0200 25.4 0300 24.9 0400 24.6 0500 24.5 0600 24.5 0700 24.1 0800 24.2 0900 27.6 1000 32.4 1100 36.6 1200 39.7 1300 40.6 1400 41.3 1500 42.6 1600 41.9 1700 39.1 1800 33.5 1900 30.7 2000 30.3 2100 29.5 2200 28.4 2300 26.2 2400 26.1 Tots/Avgs 31.0

De Laveaga - Monterey Bay - Station 104

Date Hour Air Temp (°F) 12/23/1990 0100 25.2 0200 25.1 0300 25.2 0400 23.5 0500 23.7 0600 22.9 0700 23.3 0800 23.4 0900 26.1 1000 33.9 1100 40.9 1200 43.8 1300 46.6 1400 47.1 1500 47.6 1600 47.6 1700 43.9 1800 37.1 1900 34.9 2000 33.4 2100 32.9 2200 32.2 2300 31.5 2400 31.4 Tots/Avgs 33.5

De Laveaga - Monterey Bay - Station 104

Date Hour Air Temp (°F) 12/24/1990 0100 31.9 0200 31.6 0300 29.7 0400 31.4 0500 30.9 0600 29.1 0700 27.8 0800 29.4 0900 34.9 1000 40.3 1100 46.6 1200 49.1 1300 51.2 1400 52.1 1500 52.4 1600 51.5 1700 48.1 1800 40.2 1900 36.8 2000 34.3 2100 33.0 2200 33.1 2300 32.8 2400

31.5

[Xhoniwaters1]

Obtaining legit cold hardy king seed directly from the wild has got to be a massive challenge unless you just get lucky. Wonder if way back then, UCSC knew what they where planting- or if it was just a fluke.

[ghar41]

I have had these A. cunninghamiana "Illawara's" for 10 years or so but they defoliate almost every winter. I like them because they grow fast and replace 5-6 leaves every year. This is the result of the following temperatures in December:

[palmsOrl]

No myth. My Archontophoenix cunninghamiana was purchased at the spring Leu Gardens sale in March 2003 and put in the ground immediately. I have no idea whether it is some special variety (Ilewarra, etc.) It now stands at least 15 feet tall with a huge crown spread. I have NEVER protected it and the most damage I have seen is 10% burn maybe, in 2010. It has seen temps as low as 24-25F and extended chill for a long time in 2010 and it has never flinched. i would estimate that severe damage would occur with low 20s, however, this is one cold tough palm. Certainly, if you rarely go below 25F, this palm should almost be bulletproof (to cold) for you.

[palmsOrl]

Upon further reading of this thread, I bet I did get one of the hardy kings. Maybe it would survive low 20s with only moderate damage? My ultimate lows in 2010 were basically identical to the ones Glenn posted above and my palm was basically unscathed. The ones Glenn posted look worse than Carpenterias after a typical winter here.

On the other hand, I did buy a wimpy silver bizzie in 1997 that is defoliated by 30F! it grows out it quickly and with vigor, but still.

[pogobob]

Interesting fact: Archontophoenix Cunninghamiana the common king palm has been mass produced in southern California since the 1950s and 60s from locally seed producing trees that are probably 20 generations deep into acclimation. I believe we will see this happening with other species of palms in the future as they evolve and adapt to the conditions. My dos pesos!

[David in Berkeley]

The palm at Inge Hoffmann's did see cold down to 19°F, and has exhibited superior appearance both summer and winter. I collected seed from Inge and gave it to Jason Dewees at Flora Grubb some years ago now, as well as seed to Annie's Annuals Nursery. I've seen how good the parent palm looks at Inge's year round, and would second Jim's recommendation that it is a good form to look for.

[wimmie]

More photo's please!!!!!!!!

Wim.

[sgvcns]

Mike

I think we should be able to finance a trip from donations from our cold climate members.

Bear in mind that I do like a beer. Would be a good use of a pole pruner. Next 2 months for seed I would think.

Offers?

Steve

[JT in Japan]

I have had these A. cunninghamiana "Illawara's" for 10 years or so but they defoliate almost every winter. I like them because they grow fast and replace 5-6 leaves every year. This is the result of the following temperatures in December:

A very helpful image, Glenn. Despite all the guidance from others stating "this palm'll take this temp or that temp" I was still wondering "for how long?" I can see from your data that an 8-day run of sub-30s is survivable, given the warm day-time temps.

JT

[Xhoniwaters1]

Mike

I think we should be able to finance a trip from donations from our cold climate members.

Bear in mind that I do like a beer. Would be a good use of a pole pruner. Next 2 months for seed I would think.

Offers?

Steve

Or- you go out and find the illusive Cold hardy king, collect seed, document your cool adventure on palmtalk and then sell me a batch of seed for a reasonable price

[JasonD]

Inge Hoffmann reported collecting the seed for her one tree that survived the 1990 Northern California freeze not far from the Atherton tableland, if I recall correctly. That surviving tree is the source for David Feix's collections. In discussing the 1990 freeze she estimated that her location reached lower than the 24F measured at the nearby Oakland Airport, which is nearly surrounded by San Francisco Bay.

The A. cunninghamiana population she found is very, very far north of the general range of A. cunninghamiana, yet it keys out to that species. I do wish I had recorded my discussion with her about the exact location. She recently died, and the other woman she was with on that trip to Atherton Tableland had died by the time Inge told me about the collection.

Ray Laub of Palm Patch nursery and now of the Big Island grew the seedlings from Inge's tree, which we at East West Trees bought, shifted, and later sold as 15-gallon plants. Ray's two-to-four-leaf seedlings endured the 2007 freeze at his location in a canyon in Los Altos Hills, California (Sunset zone 16), better than seedlings of the general Southern California-grown kings/bangalows/piccabeens. He estimated his lowest temperature at 22F but the seedlings probably saw no lower than 25F in their protected spot. Among the other plants that were damaged 50-80% at his location were Trachycarpus latisectus and T. martianus.

In the hope of getting an isolated source of seed, we have planted "Inge's Hardy" seedlings from 15-gallon cans at one of our yards that sees regular annual frosts but has no nearby A. cunninghamiana.

A note on California nomenclature: "king palm" is a literal translation of "archon" and "phoenix". It's inaccurate to apply to a single species in the genus, but common names for plants are just plain inaccurate anyway. People here call A. alexandrae "Alexander palm" even though it's named for Alexandra. Can't change the track of the common-name train once it's on its way down the track.

[Zeeth]

Inge Hoffmann reported collecting the seed for her one tree that survived the 1990 Northern California freeze not far from the Atherton tableland, if I recall correctly. That surviving tree is the source for David Feix's collections. In discussing the 1990 freeze she estimated that her location reached lower than the 24F measured at the nearby Oakland Airport, which is nearly surrounded by San Francisco Bay.

The A. cunninghamiana population she found is very, very far north of the general range of A. cunninghamiana, yet it keys out to that species. I do wish I had recorded my discussion with her about the exact location. She recently died, and the other woman she was with on that trip to Atherton Tableland had died by the time Inge told me about the collection.

Ray Laub of Palm Patch nursery and now of the Big Island grew the seedlings from Inge's tree, which we at East West Trees bought, shifted, and later sold as 15-gallon plants. Ray's two-to-four-leaf seedlings endured the 2007 freeze at his location in a canyon in Los Altos Hills, California (Sunset zone 16), better than seedlings of the general Southern California-grown kings/bangalows/piccabeens. He estimated his lowest temperature at 22F but the seedlings probably saw no lower than 25F in their protected spot. Among the other plants that were damaged 50-80% at his location were Trachycarpus latisectus and T. martianus.

In the hope of getting an isolated source of seed, we have planted "Inge's Hardy" seedlings from 15-gallon cans at one of our yards that sees regular annual frosts but has no nearby A. cunninghamiana.

A note on California nomenclature: "king palm" is a literal translation of "archon" and "phoenix". It's inaccurate to apply to a single species in the genus, but common names for plants are just plain inaccurate anyway. People here call A. alexandrae "Alexander palm" even though it's named for Alexandra. Can't change the track of the common-name train once it's on its way down the track.

I always wondered why so many palms had Phoenix in the name!

[Phoenikakias]

Inge Hoffmann reported collecting the seed for her one tree that survived the 1990 Northern California freeze not far from the Atherton tableland, if I recall correctly. That surviving tree is the source for David Feix's collections. In discussing the 1990 freeze she estimated that her location reached lower than the 24F measured at the nearby Oakland Airport, which is nearly surrounded by San Francisco Bay.

The A. cunninghamiana population she found is very, very far north of the general range of A. cunninghamiana, yet it keys out to that species. I do wish I had recorded my discussion with her about the exact location. She recently died, and the other woman she was with on that trip to Atherton Tableland had died by the time Inge told me about the collection.

Ray Laub of Palm Patch nursery and now of the Big Island grew the seedlings from Inge's tree, which we at East West Trees bought, shifted, and later sold as 15-gallon plants. Ray's two-to-four-leaf seedlings endured the 2007 freeze at his location in a canyon in Los Altos Hills, California (Sunset zone 16), better than seedlings of the general Southern California-grown kings/bangalows/piccabeens. He estimated his lowest temperature at 22F but the seedlings probably saw no lower than 25F in their protected spot. Among the other plants that were damaged 50-80% at his location were Trachycarpus latisectus and T. martianus.

In the hope of getting an isolated source of seed, we have planted "Inge's Hardy" seedlings from 15-gallon cans at one of our yards that sees regular annual frosts but has no nearby A. cunninghamiana.

A note on California nomenclature: "king palm" is a literal translation of "archon" and "phoenix". It's inaccurate to apply to a single species in the genus, but common names for plants are just plain inaccurate anyway. People here call A. alexandrae "Alexander palm" even though it's named for Alexandra. Can't change the track of the common-name train once it's on its way down the track.

I always wondered why so many palms had Phoenix in the name!

In Greek the word Phoenix is synonym to Palm. The word Palm itself does not exist in Greek and it could lead to misconception, since the nearest similiar word means the hand palm.

[newcal]

It's On,heading down on Sunday to photograph,document and collect any seed at the Urbenville location.Anyone can come along and join us(me,Andy,Daryl and Wal) on this mini Aussie Ratpack adventure.Having breaky at Canungra around 7.30-8.00.To get there will take 1.5-2 hours,through Beaudesert and Rathdowney to the Mt Barney and Woodenbong area and then on to Urbenville in northern N.S.W...allow half to three quarters day trip plus stop for lunch as well.....cheers Mike Green (Newcal)