World's toughest (feather) palm

[DoomsDave]

Howdyall:

The thread about the world's toughest palm seems to focus down on fan palms. Which seems reasonable, since I agree: it's a fan palm of some kind.

So, what's the toughest feather palm?

This is a tougher question than you think.

In terms of cold-hardiness, I'd say Jubes. They'll grow along the Atlantic Coast of France. Neck and neck or a close second would be the common date. After that, Buteas and CIDP.

Trouble is, Jubes won't take heat and humidity. For just an example.

What do the rest of you think?

[Xerarch]

I think Butia all-around, hardier to cold than any Phoenix but will take heat and humidity better than Jubes, I've even seen a number of them look good in the hot desert although I admit that I didn't see any large, old specimens. Anyway, for me it's a pretty near slam-dunk for Butia.

[sarasota alex]

Dave Jubs are definitely hardier in climates where they do grow than Butias, but I would have to go with Butias, simply because while Jubs win in cold-hardiness by a small margin, Butias win in tropical adaptability by a much wider one.

[Richard Booth]

Jubaea by a long way in terms of pure cold hardiness. Large plants have taken -15degC here in the UK and (just) survived

[sonoranfans]

My butia odorata(?) didn't like the western Arizona sun and also didn't like my neighbors sprinkler in florida(bud rot, spear pull, death). However these butias do appear bulletproof in florida if you can make sure they don't get too much overhead water. they don't even need irrigation once established. I've seen that the CIDP get lots of diseases and they are sickly looking in florida. And though the CIDP are more cold hardy than silvestris, I think sylvestris are more adaptable in differing climates. Sylvestris are rockets and take the Arizona sun/heat and also the florida heat and humidity while giving you 18-20F cold hardiness. Jubaeas cant survive in the florida heat/humidity, not tough here. For me phoenix sylvestris have been more robust and trouble free in Arizona and florida than butia. However my little blue butia yatay from jungle music is my favorite non hybrid cold hardy feather palm.... Among my hybrids, I like my butia x Jubaea F1 and my butia yatay x jubaea F1, these are pretty palms that likely have plenty of cold hardiness and I've seen no sensitivity to spotting so far. I also have a (butia x J)xJ but it seems to be more mold spot prone than the other aforementioned butia hybrids.

[Crazy-Horse-Marc]

Here in Dublin, Ireland near the coast a huge factor with all palms is wind, we have had 20+ days/nights of 40-60MPH winds this winter,

so its easy to spot who is suffering leaf damage, and by far the most suitable feather palm is the Jubaea, it maybe slow growing and prone

to wind damage when young, but once the trunk obtains a 50+cm trunk it kicks out 4-6 leaves a year even over an overcast wet summer,

the leaves are fairly short and rigid for such a large palm, and there is a thin membrain string witch protects the fronds from the wind till

the frond comes completely out, before it drys up and falls away to allow the palm frond to open up fully, i personally have not seen any other

palm witch has that adaptation? Having said that i do know of 50-60cm trunked Jubaea getting taken out in the winter of 2010 at -14C/7F .

Second choice would be Butia Eriospatha, faster growing than B. Capitata and the fronds seem more flexible in the wind, as my 5mt specimens

leaves are still perfect and showed no damage after 6days of never going above 0C over the winter of 2010 and taking nightly lows of -3C to -6.9C

over the same period, and no i dont ever protect my palms in any way!

As for JubXButia and ButiaXJub i wont know for another 10-20 years as there still saplings:-(

[Darold Petty]

Welcome to Palmtalk, and thanks for your post !

[Dypsisdean]

I would hate to meet up with a healthy Phoenix reclinata in a dark alley. They have kicked my butt every time I ever even got near one of them. Not too much will completely kill a good sized one of those.

So as to "tough" - is a palm tough if a little weevil can kill it?

[The7thLegend]

Welcome to PalmTalk Crazy-Horse Marc

[Tyrone]

I would hate to meet up with a healthy Phoenix reclinata in a dark alley. They have kicked my butt every time I ever even got near one of them. Not too much will completely kill a good sized one of those.

So as to "tough" - is a palm tough if a little weevil can kill it?

Yes, certainly not the worlds friendliest palm. They are horrible to weed at the nursery in 100L bags. You end up with multiple stab wounds and that's with being really really careful. Give me a big Calamus any day.

[Pedro 65]

Without a doubt...The Worlds most toughest "Feather" palm is the Oz Emu.

It can live in the the "very hot dry dessert " and frosty nights in Winter. It can go "without food n water for a long time.

But "best of all, its "Seeds" are Huge and Colourful.

Pete

[palmtreesforpleasure]

Without a doubt...The Worlds most toughest "Feather" palm is the Oz Emu.

It can live in the the "very hot dry dessert " and frosty nights in Winter. It can go "without food n water for a long time.

But "best of all, its "Seeds" are Huge and Colourful.

Pete

[edric]

Here in Dublin, Ireland near the coast a huge factor with all palms is wind, we have had 20+ days/nights of 40-60MPH winds this winter,

so its easy to spot who is suffering leaf damage, and by far the most suitable feather palm is the Jubaea, it maybe slow growing and prone

to wind damage when young, but once the trunk obtains a 50+cm trunk it kicks out 4-6 leaves a year even over an overcast wet summer,

the leaves are fairly short and rigid for such a large palm, and there is a thin membrain string witch protects the fronds from the wind till

the frond comes completely out, before it drys up and falls away to allow the palm frond to open up fully, i personally have not seen any other

palm witch has that adaptation? Having said that i do know of 50-60cm trunked Jubaea getting taken out in the winter of 2010 at -14C/7F .

Second choice would be Butia Eriospatha, faster growing than B. Capitata and the fronds seem more flexible in the wind, as my 5mt specimens

leaves are still perfect and showed no damage after 6days of never going above 0C over the winter of 2010 and taking nightly lows of -3C to -6.9C

over the same period, and no i dont ever protect my palms in any way!

As for JubXButia and ButiaXJub i wont know for another 10-20 years as there still saplings:-(

Hi Marc, Welcome to the forum, there simply is no other, Ed

[edric]

So what's the verdict Dave, Ed

[DoomsDave]

Ed, the Emu's seeds are too big.

Might have to start a poll . . . .

[_Keith]

Butia can take the cold, and the wet, and the humid. But I have to throw in the Mule, too.

[Tyrone]

Butias would have to have the most toughest feather leaf on earth. It's almost too tough to be called a "feather". It's amazing how this palm can be grown from the UK to the equator. That's about 100-110 degrees of latitude on the earths surface which is incredible. Compare it to the coconut which can barely do 60 degrees, and C renda which would be lucky if it could do 40 degrees.

[sonoranfans]

Butias would have to have the most toughest feather leaf on earth. It's almost too tough to be called a "feather". It's amazing how this palm can be grown from the UK to the equator. That's about 100-110 degrees of latitude on the earths surface which is incredible. Compare it to the coconut which can barely do 60 degrees, and C renda which would be lucky if it could do 40 degrees.

Yeah except not so good in the desert heat where many phoenix shine.... And there are lots of deserts out there... And killing a butia is pretty easy, just overhead water the bud in the cool weather, even in florida.

[_Keith]

Butias would have to have the most toughest feather leaf on earth. It's almost too tough to be called a "feather". It's amazing how this palm can be grown from the UK to the equator. That's about 100-110 degrees of latitude on the earths surface which is incredible. Compare it to the coconut which can barely do 60 degrees, and C renda which would be lucky if it could do 40 degrees.

Yeah except not so good in the desert heat where many phoenix shine.... And there are lots of deserts out there... And killing a butia is pretty easy, just overhead water the bud in the cool weather, even in florida.

Tom, I am not so sure about the overhead water in cool weather. Here in Louisiana we always have wet winters, very wet winters, but Butia seem to do fine. I am no expert, but this is my observation.

[Tyrone]

We get wet cool winters here and Butia do fine. They grow like weeds.

[Explorer]

Well Perth does not get much winter I guess. Well an average maximum tempersature in July of arround 17 C does not sound like winter to me. Winter, thats frost, snow and ice. Or enless chilly rainy weather with 6 C or so. But 17 C thats what we get in May. Well if its a good May.

Alexander

[Sutter Bob]

Cold wet winters no problem for Butia here either. No problem for the emus either.

Killer for most other pinnate palms in this area except Phoenix canariensis, dactylifera and sylvestris, Jubaea, Dypsis decipiens, Chamaedorea radicalis, and mules. Plumose queens no problem.

Ravenea xerophila continues to look promising here with little or no protection but hasn't been tested too hard yet.

All others tried by me need considerable protection but probably at least 10 more have potential to grow with help (overhead canopy) - might or might not look too good: Archontophoenix cunninghamiana; Dypsis betafaka, baronii, onilahensis, and ambositrae; Parajubaea toralyii; Beccariophoenix alfredii; Rhopalostylis and Arenga micrantha and engleri. Suspect a few other Dypsis, Phoenix and Chamaedorea could also be nursed along.

Toughest here? Hard to say between Butia and P. Canariensis. Not enough Jubaea around but expect they will be fine along with Phoenix dactylifera and sylvestris. Overall globally have to agree with Butia.

[Phoenikakias]

Phoenix porphyrocarpa by far. Undemanding about soil, water, air moisture, cool or hot air, growth speed and (natural) germination rate of seeds. Cold hardiness is higher than this of a normal CIDP, and, however unbelieveable, it is more adaptable than theophrastii to clay soils. It shows even same behaviour as seedling like a Washi robusta, that is you pull out eophylle and it pushes a new one.

[sonoranfans]

Butias would have to have the most toughest feather leaf on earth. It's almost too tough to be called a "feather". It's amazing how this palm can be grown from the UK to the equator. That's about 100-110 degrees of latitude on the earths surface which is incredible. Compare it to the coconut which can barely do 60 degrees, and C renda which would be lucky if it could do 40 degrees.

Yeah except not so good in the desert heat where many phoenix shine.... And there are lots of deserts out there... And killing a butia is pretty easy, just overhead water the bud in the cool weather, even in florida.

Tom, I am not so sure about the overhead water in cool weather. Here in Louisiana we always have wet winters, very wet winters, but Butia seem to do fine. I am no expert, but this is my observation.

I am talking about irrigation, not rain. My neighbor sprinkled my butia and killed it, spear pull, dead... with just natural rain they do great in florida, they seem to prefer no irrigation. In the AZ desert they were much more prone to burning in the sun than all the phoenix and all but 2 livistonas(austrailis and chinensis). My az butia did flower, but I was constantly trying to keep it from being burned and it was a bit yellow all the time. All this and it never saw western sun. any phx species grew like a weed there regardless of heat/sun.

[Phoenikakias]

Another big truth from Tom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sutter Bob]

Phoenix porphyrocarpa by far. Undemanding about soil, water, air moisture, cool or hot air, growth speed and (natural) germination rate of seeds. Cold hardiness is higher than this of a normal CIDP, and, however unbelieveable, it is more adaptable than theophrastii to clay soils. It shows even same behaviour as seedling like a Washi robusta, that is you pull out eophylle and it pushes a new one.

Thanks,

Never knew about that variety. I'll be on the lookout for seed color - strikes me I've seen a lot of pretty red seed around here which would make sense.

[Explorer]

Well in the UK it seems Jubaea can survive lower temperatures then Butia. So Jubaea should be the winter then.

Alexander

[Tyrone]

Well Perth does not get much winter I guess. Well an average maximum tempersature in July of arround 17 C does not sound like winter to me. Winter, thats frost, snow and ice. Or enless chilly rainy weather with 6 C or so. But 17 C thats what we get in May. Well if its a good May.

Alexander

Well that's true. We average just over 18C in the coldest part of winter, so no comparison to the type of cold rain you're talking about. Even down on the south coast where I'm moving next week it averages 16C in winter, so that makes me feel good that that's not really winter either. Butias grow with no care or attention down there as well.

[Jonathan]

Same here, Butias laugh at our winter (which is real enough), in fact they seem to prefer it cause they get more water here in winter than in summer, cause I dont bother watering them much!

Having said that, I never water my CIDP's and they grow flat-out all year round, no matter how cold, dry or hot it gets.

I couldn't choose between them for toughness, although CIDP's are much faster in my climate than Butia's.

Cheers,

Jonathan

[Crazy-Horse-Marc]

Butia C, and Butia E, both seem to laugh at moderate summer temp of 16-22C and 4-6weeks of daily showers and sometimes

downpours, anyone know how Butiagrus mule palm compares? also in wind hardiness? and growth rates? as there is a chance

i might be able to finally track one down this summer 2014!

[dalmatiansoap]

Phoenix porphyrocarpa by far. Undemanding about soil, water, air moisture, cool or hot air, growth speed and (natural) germination rate of seeds. Cold hardiness is higher than this of a normal CIDP, and, however unbelieveable, it is more adaptable than theophrastii to clay soils. It shows even same behaviour as seedling like a Washi robusta, that is you pull out eophylle and it pushes a new one.

Thanks,

Never knew about that variety. I'll be on the lookout for seed color - strikes me I've seen a lot of pretty red seed around here which would make sense.

Absolute!

[Moose]

Butia can take the cold, and the wet, and the humid. But I have to throw in the Mule, too.

Can't argue - once established,real toughies.

[Axel Amsterdam]

Hi Marc, How about a pic of your large eriospatha in Ireland? Regards, Axel From Amsterdam

[NorthFlpalmguy]

Butias, not to mention you can chop off 90% of the root system, transplant it, then not water it at all and it still comes back strong. I have ran them over with tractors, pulled them out of the ground and thrown them in a "cull pile" on top of the ground and they still establish. I once left one in a dark box for over a month (forgot about it) and pulled it out, no water, and it established. I TRIED to kill it and could not.

[Brad Mondel]

I'd say hands down, Butia. It survives cold, wet winters, soggy soil, dry soil, salt spray from the ocean, cold, heat, rodents, transplantation, it can grow out west in dry Los Angeles and all the way up to chilly Virginia Beach, Virginia on the east coast.

That's why it's my favorite genus. It's so versatile and adaptable. Not to mention gorgeous.

Edited May 13, 2015 by ArchAngeL01