Bactris gasipaes?

[LilikoiLee]

Mike and I are pretty sure this is a Bactris gasipaes; but would like to make certain before we plant it tomorrow.

Thanks for your help!

Lee Tracy

[Kennybenjamin]

It's not a Bactris Lee, Bactris are very spikey!!! This looks to be Dypsis mahajanga or some other Dypsis from the madagacariensis complex.

[Jose Maria]

No not a Bactris gassipaes, a.k.a. pejibaye here. Since pre-columbian days they are cultivated , for the fruit and the "palmito", heart of palm. Since they produce lots of suckers, it can be harvested year around for palmito.

Just like Kennybenjamin said, they are very spikey, even at this juvenile stage.

[realarch]

Lee, it almost looks like an Allagoptera leaf arrangement. As far as Bactris gasipaes, I have a couple of spineless ones, so although they do have a few spines, they are hardly detectable. Nothing like the type.

Tim

[rick]

Its too green to be an Allagoptera. I have to agree with Kennybenjamin. It looks a lot like Dypsis madagascariensis with a small sucker at the base but it could be any of them in the complex.

[Jose Maria]

Here a group of Bactris gassipaes in Costa RIca

Close-up

Edited December 28, 2013 by Jose Maria

[LilikoiLee]

Thanks for everyone's replies. The reason we thought it was a gasipaes is that (to our eyes) it looks identical to the picures we saw on line. Also, I did buy a spineless gasipaes several years ago, but because it's tag was lost I want to make sure I had identified it correctly.

Tim, could you please take a closeup up of the frond and spines on yours? If the tiny spines are too tiny to be photographed we'd like to bring part of a frond over to compare with yours the next time we're in Hilo.

PS: Did you buy yours at GE? I've noticed that the palms there are occasionally misidentified.

Thanks,

Lee

[realarch]

Hi Lee, here are some photo's of the B. gasipaes growing in the front garden. I got them from PP from the woman who owns the place and who cultivates them for hearts of palm which you can purchase there. These are the spineless cultivar, once in awhile I'll grab on to the trunk when my 'Hurrycane' slips and can feel an odd spine, but they are very small and pretty much undetectable. FAST growers and honestly, almost look like queen palms. If it weren't for all the suckers, which I let grow so I can harvest, I might think otherwise. Karen and Dean have one that's probably 75' tall, jaw dropping, and they cut the suckers out. Anyway, here are some pics.

Tim

[Kennybenjamin]

In my experience these palms would not be as pinnate at the size of Lee's palm, what would you say Tim?

Could be environmental conditions but I have a couple around 2m tall and the leaflets are still quite large and the leaf is fairly undivided.

It's also the coloration and speckles on Lee's stems which lead me to conclude it's a dypsis.

[Jerry@TreeZoo]

Tim,

I hear the spineless variety does not produce as much as the spiny one. What say you?

[realarch]

Ben, I really don't remember what the leaves looked like when I acquired them, I'd have to look back at some photos. In the first pic I posted, these suckers are small and are entirely pinnate, so who knows.

Jerry, I've never heard that, interesting. That may be a good thing though, they fruit like crazy and although I do like them, one can only eat so much. Sort of like banana.......at the end of the season.

Tim

[Jose Maria]

Just as Kennybenjamin mentioned, when the pejibaye are young they have entire leaves, only later the leaves become pinnate.

And if there are no spines at all, then it is not a Bactris....

As for the production of the spineless variety: it is mostly planted by producers of palmito, so as to be easier to work with. But I heard the same comment.But the important aspect for getting shoots (once the main stem is harvested) is lots of sunshine, no shade.

As for fruit production, there are many varieties with desirable qualities (taste, size, etc..)but none of these qualities takes into account it being a spineless variety or not.

[LilikoiLee]

Hi Lee, here are some photo's of the B. gasipaes growing in the front garden. I got them from PP from the woman who owns the place and who cultivates them for hearts of palm which you can purchase there. These are the spineless cultivar, once in awhile I'll grab on to the trunk when my 'Hurrycane' slips and can feel an odd spine, but they are very small and pretty much undetectable. FAST growers and honestly, almost look like queen palms. If it weren't for all the suckers, which I let grow so I can harvest, I might think otherwise. Karen and Dean have one that's probably 75' tall, jaw dropping, and they cut the suckers out. Anyway, here are some pics.

Tim

IMG_6938.jpg IMG_6939.jpg IMG_6941.jpg

Tim,

Thanks for your quick reply. I was just heading out to the garden to scrutinze ours again, so now I can take my laptop and do a close up comparison, particulary at the spine situation. Perhaps we also bought ours at PP.....my excellent memory (ha ha) may have be faulty on that.

Also, do you remember how tall was yours when the spines appeared? Our palm is not as tall as yours and perhaps it just hasn't gotten to the spine stage.

Thanks again,

Lee

[amazondk]

There was a good program on Brazilian TV about the origin of the Bactris Gasipaes a while ago. It seems that most of the spineless trees have their roots in Peru. There is one area in the Peruvian amazon region where the indigenous people have a cultivar with no spines. The seeds of these trees were brought back to Brazil by a man from the southeastern state of Espirito Santo. From there they spread throughout the country. Now more than likely there are some varieties from Amazonia without spines that originated elsewhere. Since the tree has been cultivated so long and is truley a domesticated tree, it is not found in the wild, it has had a long history with man.

Here is a link with the spineless varieites for sale. The price of 1,300 reais , or about 500 USD is for a thousand plants. You can see clearly the type of leaves that the young palms have.

http://marechalfloriano.olx.com.br/mudas-de-pupunha-sem-espinho-iid-564447044

dk

[Jeff Searle]

Lee,

Your palm in question looks just like a Dypsis, possibly D. madagascariensis. It's not a Bactris.

I just today potted up some spineless B. gasipaes ( 4') and they have no spines at all.

[realarch]

tWell, look who chimed in. How's it going DK? Good to hear from you.

Tim

[amazondk]

Hi Tim,

I am fine. I have sort of been offline on palms for a while. I hope your garden is growing well. I have a problem with a B. gasipaes behind my house now. It is a spiny one and has gotten quite tall. I need to take it down as we are building something in the area. I have a non spiny one too, it is not so much of a problem.

dk

[amazondk]

Here is a document in English from the INPA (National Institute of Amazonian Stidies) about the Bactris gasipaes. It shows very well the origin and history of the domesticated tree.

https://www.inpa.gov.br/pupunha/noticias/origin-bgg.pdf

[Cindy Adair]

We have a couple of the spiny ones that are fruiting. We remove the small ones to pretend it's solitary and keep its footprint smaller.

No matter how small, all of ours have plenty of spines.

[Jose Maria]

Amazon DK,

Very interesting article about Bactris and its origin in the Amazon. I knew personally Dr. Mora-Urpi, who studied this crop at the University of Costa Rica.

Also interesting the fact that the spineless variety is being commercialized at a big scale.

Thanks for all this information.

I have a few trees at my farm , and in season there are too many fruits for my family so I give them away. Everybody likes pejibaye in Costa Rica.