Does keeping a palm in a pot too long affect trunk size?

[LilikoiLee]

I just came across a post about the trunk size of P. robelenii from October:

"I am sure it's the same with P. roebelenii. What also plays a huge role is wether they begun trunking in pots or in the ground,in pots they get much thinner trunks which cannot widen much at a latter date and thus leaf size can't reach its full potential either."

I suspect that this comment applies to all species of palms, but would like to hear anyone who would like to confirm or dispute the idea.

Lee

[bgl]

Lee,

Different palms do respond differently to this. I know for a fact that a Clinostigma that's being kept in pots (and moved up into larger sizes as it keeps growing) will never develop the same robust trunk that a Clinostigma that is planted PRIOR to trunking will. My hunch is that this is less of an issue for smaller palms - BUT, just a hunch. Don't know about P. roebelenii.

Bo-Göran

[fan palm]

I have wandered this also. I have some watermelon chamby's that I rescued which already have about a foot of thin trunk which were severely pot bound. I wander if they will ever look good? I don't think so...

[MattyB]

This happens a lot to Archontophoenix because they are fast growing and can quickly form trunk in the pot. People are impatient and think that buying the taller palm is going to result in faster canopy, but plant that little 5 gallon out and in a couple of years it'll be taller, fatter, and healthier than the big one.

[ghar41]

This happens a lot to Archontophoenix because they are fast growing and can quickly form trunk in the pot. People are impatient and think that buying the taller palm is going to result in faster canopy, but plant that little 5 gallon out and in a couple of years it'll be taller, fatter, and healthier than the big one.

Yes, I have seen this with King palms also. The right timing in getting it out of the pot and into the ground gives good results in a quick, large trunk.

[humangenomaproject]

I've had this experience with Dictyosperma as well. I bought some that were trunking arounf 5 feet in a bag and the seedling I put in next to the trunking specimen has almost grown as tall within two years. Some things really take off and others languish when put in the ground (due to delicate roots I presume) so it is very much species dependent in my experience.

[Cindy Adair]

Since I plant everything really tiny, I have no experience with this issue. Interesting though....

[Phoenikakias]

I am convinced that this really happens, so far at least as tall trunking palms are concerned.

[KennyRE317]

with queens and foxtails I've seen very tall specimens that were very skinny, i'm not sure if they were pot grown until very mature or if they will plump back out in the future.

[DoomsDave]

Sometimes if you plant a stunted palm in the ground after it's trunked in the pot, the trunk will crack. Sometimes severely.

As Matt noted, it's better to plant a smaller (but not tiny) plant that hasn't started to trunk yet. It will catch up and grow much faster, if it's a fast-growing type.

Slower types, on the other hand, like Howeas, don't seem to stunt as much.

[Sabal Steve]

Anyone have any thoughts on how this affects palms with slow to medium growth rates grown in pots that have started to trunk, but had always been potted up before becoming rootbound?

[Sabal Steve]

Anyone have any thoughts on how this affects palms with slow to medium growth rates grown in pots that have started to trunk, but had always been potted up before becoming rootbound?

I am planning on moving in the not-too-distant future and have started seedlings that I wish to upgrade to five gallon pots, to 15 gallon tubs, to 25 gallon tubs if needed. Looking to get a head start...

[akamu]

That's interesting dave I planted 3 D.leptochilios together with the two bigger ones in the back and the smaller one up front. The 2 larger ones in the back did crack slightly and the smaller one up front did not crack and has grown much fatter and taller,I could not figure out why but I think you just solved my problem thanks for the input

[trioderob]

[_Keith]

As a good general answer, it is yes.

[O'o Bar Master]

This happens a lot to Archontophoenix because they are fast growing and can quickly form trunk in the pot. People are impatient and think that buying the taller palm is going to result in faster canopy, but plant that little 5 gallon out and in a couple of years it'll be taller, fatter, and healthier than the big one.

Guilty of that (buying large plants to get a faster start on our garden) Since most or our palms are now in the ground there's not much I can do for them. Somewhere Jeff Marcus is saying "I told you to plant them!".

Fortunately we have lots of 1 gal and smaller palms and if I can find a places for all of them I will be able to do it right for them.

Lee

[LilikoiLee]

Oops!

Mike went outside and I grabbed his identical computer which was already on PT and forgot to log in under my own ID. Last post was actually from me.

We'll have to see if there is a way to keep the login locked so we can't mess up anymore.

Lee

[LilikoiLee]

Wow, I

Breathtakingly beautiful! How old is your bonsai? I was going to say that I've never seen the Japanese do anything less than stunning but then had visions of some of their more recent 'art', for example Hello Kitty.

Lee

[LilikoiLee]

I didn't expect so many responses much less such experienced and valuable ones.

Now that you've all chimed in on this, I realize that if I had been more observant I would have noticed the same phenomenon happening in our garden...in particular with our Clinostigmas which we planted out from sizeable pots. (Love them anyway.)

Thank you all!

Lee

[KennyRE317]

Sometimes if you plant a stunted palm in the ground after it's trunked in the pot, the trunk will crack. Sometimes severely.

As Matt noted, it's better to plant a smaller (but not tiny) plant that hasn't started to trunk yet. It will catch up and grow much faster, if it's a fast-growing type.

Slower types, on the other hand, like Howeas, don't seem to stunt as much.

I had a couple things in 15gal with a bit of trunk that I planted for some instant canopy and some size and if they end up with stunted growth I actually wouldn't mind since I think Dypsis lanceolata and pembana looks better as medium heoght plants and they're already 6' tall.

Everuthing else is being planted as 3-5gal size or even large 1gal plants since i have a whole garden to fill there is just no way to buy that many 15gal plants

Edited November 12, 2013 by KennyRE317

[hanapalms]

I just came across a post about the trunk size of P. robelenii from October:

"I am sure it's the same with P. roebelenii. What also plays a huge role is wether they begun trunking in pots or in the ground,in pots they get much thinner trunks which cannot widen much at a latter date and thus leaf size can't reach its full potential either."

I suspect that this comment applies to all species of palms, but would like to hear anyone who would like to confirm or dispute the idea.

Dypsis onilahensis at least eight years old. Yes, it has smaller trunks.

[Phoenikakias]

Besides is there any correlation between trunk size and cold hardiness? (of course of specimens belonging to same sp speaking)

[Kris]

The answer for this topic is yes.

palms are not bonsai plants.and keeping them in pots when they have to be on ground makes the palm grow in a stunted form.even washies have exhibited this fact.

I have tested with coconuts in pots for 6 long years they lived and one fine morning I noticed the fronds started drying out and in one month it totally collapsed.

so what iam saying here is palms needs ground soil to establish.

buy big specimens from nursery only if you have the right space and climatic conditions to grow one.

Or else dont waste your time.

wild animals in cage and palms in pots are the most exact comparisons.

love,

kris.

[Gileno Machado]

That's a very interesting thread and I've learned a lot from everyone's input, thanks.

We'll, I've had most of my palms (grown from seeds in most part) in pots for the last 10 years. My plans are to keep most of the collection as a group, for future plantings on a large Park at a public location.

As a general rule, palms perform best in the ground, but depending on the species and also other aspects, like pot size, degree of exposure, use of fertizer, etc, most palms can be kept in pots for several years without stunting and losing the ability of resuming regular growth once moved to the ground.

It would be interesting to hear from more experienced nursery owners...and I believe there are also tricks for slowing down growth rates at certain sizes, by moving the seedlings to shade, reducing fert, etc...but knowing the best re-potting time and keeping adequate proportions balance (rootball size x trunk development) should be the key to understand this question, and it varies widely depending on the species...

...and by the way, Phoenix roebeleniis do get thinner trunks when kept in pots for too long...and still look lovely, anyway...

[KennyRE317]

I just came across a post about the trunk size of P. robelenii from October:

"I am sure it's the same with P. roebelenii. What also plays a huge role is wether they begun trunking in pots or in the ground,in pots they get much thinner trunks which cannot widen much at a latter date and thus leaf size can't reach its full potential either."

I suspect that this comment applies to all species of palms, but would like to hear anyone who would like to confirm or dispute the idea.

Dypsis onilahensis at least eight years old. Yes, it has smaller trunks.Dypsis onilahensis (bonzai).jpg

could that just be a specific plant that just ended up small like a dwarf?

[mjff]

I guess it depends on the size of the pot. I bought some trunking Washingtonia filifera grown in 20" boxes, CIDP and P. dactylifera grown in 36" boxes, and they don't appear to be stunted at all. It's hard to see the CIDP trunk in the photo, but it is easily 3' across. The Filifera is still getting fatter, but is much wider than when I planted it. Those Date Palms are plenty fat too. The CIDP survived the 10-11 freeze you see the #'s for in my signature. In fact I have 4 of them that did.