Arenga engleri (The Formosa Palm)

[_Keith]

I understand, there may be two flavors of this palm. I undoubtedly have the cold hardy one, but what is the difference. Mine was gifted from SpockVR6. It was hastily dug up and made the 800 mile journey home mostly barerooted in the back of a pickup truck. It was planted soon after. A hurricane a year later stripped it to a single foliated leaf. Then it met a 15 year record low with 3 consecutive nights 20,19,21. The next year, an all-time record drought, yet it hung on still. The last two years, we have had record rains and it is flourishing. So, which the heck engleri might this be.

[edbrown_III]

They are real tough --- I have some I planted in 85 that survived all the freezes -----killed to the ground like Rhapis but came back

Best of luck with this

Ed

[Alicehunter2000]

Dang Keith...you need to weed that thing. Wonder you haven't smothered it to death with weeds.

[_Keith]

I am getting to it, but that Trumpet VIne is relentless. Can't be killed.

[spockvr6]

Keith- Glad to see that guy is still among the living! I recall digging that palm out of my old yard and being very very surprised at just how few roots there were relative to the crown size. But, these things must be tough! Yours is definitely a testament to that. It appears well established now and I suspect will be off to the races in the next few years.

[Eric in Orlando]

There seems to be 2 forms of it;

The smaller, hardier form is native to the Ryukyu Islands of Japan. This one has recently been named a seperate species, Arenga ryukyuensis.

The larger form is from Taiwan and slightly less hardy. It is still Arenga engleri.

One thing I have noticed. Both of these palms have been grown in Florida for decades and I see intermidiate forms as they have hybridized.

[grant b.]

i don't know what form I have, but some rabbits went to town on mine. at the time, the plant was about 5 feet overall and anything below 3 feet was completely eaten away. I thought it was a goner but it has made an extremely quick recovery. these palms are definitely hardy but be careful to keep critters away because they obviously like the sweet taste (hence the nickname sugar palm)

[DoomsDave]

I am getting to it, but that Trumpet VIne is relentless. Can't be killed.

We'll have to call you BS Man East . . .

[DoomsDave]

i don't know what form I have, but some rabbits went to town on mine. at the time, the plant was about 5 feet overall and anything below 3 feet was completely eaten away. I thought it was a goner but it has made an extremely quick recovery. these palms are definitely hardy but be careful to keep critters away because they obviously like the sweet taste (hence the nickname sugar palm)

Rabbits are great curried . . . . Bet they'll taste extra good after chowing on an engleri

[DoomsDave]

There seems to be 2 forms of it;

The smaller, hardier form is native to the Ryukyu Islands of Japan. This one has recently been named a seperate species, Arenga ryukyuensis.

The larger form is from Taiwan and slightly less hardy. It is still Arenga engleri.

One thing I have noticed. Both of these palms have been grown in Florida for decades and I see intermidiate forms as they have hybridized.

I have both in my garden, right next to each other.

The small one is a bit older, and seems to want to seed faster. Both are making a nice privacy hedge. Not as fast as some plants, but well worth the wait.

The blossoms' fragrance fills up the garden.

Seeds, anyone?

[_Keith]

I am getting to it, but that Trumpet VIne is relentless. Can't be killed.

We'll have to call you BS Man East . . .

I assure you, when compared to me, BS Man is a weed amateur.

[DoomsDave]

I am getting to it, but that Trumpet VIne is relentless. Can't be killed.

We'll have to call you BS Man East . . .

I assure you, when compared to me, BS Man is a weed amateur.

That is saying something . . .

[mjff]

There seems to be 2 forms of it;

The smaller, hardier form is native to the Ryukyu Islands of Japan. This one has recently been named a seperate species, Arenga ryukyuensis.

The larger form is from Taiwan and slightly less hardy. It is still Arenga engleri.

One thing I have noticed. Both of these palms have been grown in Florida for decades and I see intermidiate forms as they have hybridized.

I have both in my garden, right next to each other.

The small one is a bit older, and seems to want to seed faster. Both are making a nice privacy hedge. Not as fast as some plants, but well worth the wait.

The blossoms' fragrance fills up the garden.

Seeds, anyone?

Anybody know how to tell the difference between Arenga ryukyuensis and Arenga engleri? This is a photo of my Arenga. Not sure which it is. It had 7 trunks, but the largest died over the winter. I've noticed that seems to happen frequently with clumping palms that I transplant Within a year the largest trunks die and the smaller ones go crazy. I have an Acoelorrhaphe wrightii that I planted at the same time that did the same thing. Two largest trunks toast, the other 12+ are growing so robustly that I can't count them. In the background you can see a Macrozamia montana and several Ceratozamia hildaes. They are really loving the shade the Desert Willow I planted over them is giving. If you have some seed Dave I might be interested in growing them.

[_Keith]

There seems to be 2 forms of it;

The smaller, hardier form is native to the Ryukyu Islands of Japan. This one has recently been named a seperate species, Arenga ryukyuensis.

The larger form is from Taiwan and slightly less hardy. It is still Arenga engleri.

One thing I have noticed. Both of these palms have been grown in Florida for decades and I see intermidiate forms as they have hybridized.

Anybody know how to tell the difference between Arenga ryukyuensis and Arenga engleri? This is a photo of my Arenga. Not sure which it is. It had 7 trunks, but the largest died over the winter. I've noticed that seems to happen frequently with clumping palms that I transplant Within a year the largest trunks die and the smaller ones go crazy. I have an Acoelorrhaphe wrightii that I planted at the same time that did the same thing. Two largest trunks toast, the other 12+ are growing so robustly that I can't count them. In the background you can see a Macrozamia montana and several Ceratozamia hildaes. They are really loving the shade the Desert Willow I planted over them is giving. If you have some seed Dave I might be interested in growing them.

Arenga engleri.JPG

The main stalk on mine died as well after transplanting. On the varieties, I have noticed that mine has thinner leaves than most I see in pictures.

[_Keith]

There seems to be 2 forms of it;

The smaller, hardier form is native to the Ryukyu Islands of Japan. This one has recently been named a seperate species, Arenga ryukyuensis.

The larger form is from Taiwan and slightly less hardy. It is still Arenga engleri.

One thing I have noticed. Both of these palms have been grown in Florida for decades and I see intermidiate forms as they have hybridized.

Can you quantify larger and smaller, as in how large is larger and how small is smaller.

[DoomsDave]

There seems to be 2 forms of it;

The smaller, hardier form is native to the Ryukyu Islands of Japan. This one has recently been named a seperate species, Arenga ryukyuensis.

The larger form is from Taiwan and slightly less hardy. It is still Arenga engleri.

One thing I have noticed. Both of these palms have been grown in Florida for decades and I see intermidiate forms as they have hybridized.

Can you quantify larger and smaller, as in how large is larger and how small is smaller.

My ryukyuensis (if that's what it is) is about 5 - 6 feet tall, with a roughly equal spread. Lots of stems, maybe a dozen. Needs regular trimming or it gets messy. The engleri is about 8-10 feet tall, seems skinnier, though that might be because it's under an elm tree. Fewer stems, maybe six to eight. Seems easier to keep looking neat, though that might change when it flowers and sets seed.

[Eric in Orlando]

A. engleri grows 8-10 feet tall with large leaves (maybe 4-6ft in length on mature stems). The foliage is very dark green on top and silvery underneath.

A. ryukyuensis grows 4-6 foot. The foliage is shorter with thinner leaflets. It seems to be a more duller olive green color and not as silvery underneath.

[Phoenikakias]

There seems to be 2 forms of it;

The smaller, hardier form is native to the Ryukyu Islands of Japan. This one has recently been named a seperate species, Arenga ryukyuensis.

The larger form is from Taiwan and slightly less hardy. It is still Arenga engleri.

One thing I have noticed. Both of these palms have been grown in Florida for decades and I see intermidiate forms as they have hybridized.

Yup, intermediate forms, this is the key... Is there any correlation of the non skin irritating fruits from some specimens (ie the one in Orlando) with either of those subspecies?

[Eric in Orlando]

I've never heard of any with non irritating fruit. The few I have handled with bare hands were irritating.

[Phoenikakias]

I've never heard of any with non irritating fruit. The few I have handled with bare hands were irritating.

Yet there are such specimens; one in Orlando/Disneyland (so I have heard of) and of course mine! I have even tasted fruits of mine and they are sweet...

[edbrown_III]

I've never heard of any with non irritating fruit. The few I have handled with bare hands were irritating.

Yet there are such specimens; one in Orlando/Disneyland (so I have heard of) and of course mine! I have even tasted fruits of mine and they are sweet...

yes but its Disneyland that irritating in this case ---- best regards Ed

[HorsesnPalms]

Its a truly stunning palm. I am about to acquire some seeds for the engleri version. But was curious as to the differences as well. Thanks for bringing this up!

[DoomsDave]

Here's a couple of pictures of my specimens, which, I hope, will illustrate the differences between the shorter and taller species, or whatEVER.

This is the taller type. It's about 7-9 feet tall. Hasn't flowered yet, my younger plant.

This is the shorter type. Flowered, seeded, up the wazoo, as we say in thees' country . . . .

Both make a great hedge to hide the ugly butt view of my neighbor's roof and provide that illusion of pastoral purity, in the country.

[LilikoiLee]

There seems to be 2 forms of it;

The smaller, hardier form is native to the Ryukyu Islands of Japan. This one has recently been named a seperate species, Arenga ryukyuensis.

The larger form is from Taiwan and slightly less hardy. It is still Arenga engleri.

One thing I have noticed. Both of these palms have been grown in Florida for decades and I see intermidiate forms as they have hybridized.

Interesting! I visited the Ryukyu Islands while I was living in Japan. The main island is extremely small. Thanks to the kindness and friendliness of the people I am sure I saw every inch of the accessable part of the island but it I don't remember ever seeing a single palm. But then I was palm oblivious back then. I bought a Satakentia ryukyuensis a couple of years ago. It is a beautiful palm but I bought it in part because it was from the Ryukuu's and would remind me of the wonderful Ryukyuan people. Never knew there was another smaller Arenga from there and would love to have one. Does anyone know where I can find one or of any other palms from that region?

PS: I also visited Taiwan (aka Formosa) and Hong Kong (mainland China was still closed at that time). Am now wondering if my palm oblivion made me miss palms from those places. Does anyone know of other palms from there?

PPS: Taiwan really does have those incredible ridges and valleys full of beautiful flora that you see in Chinese landscape paintings. If you are ever in northern Asia don't miss them!

Lee

[mjff]

Here's a couple of pictures of my specimens, which, I hope, will illustrate the differences between the shorter and taller species, or whatEVER.

This is the taller type. It's about 7-9 feet tall. Hasn't flowered yet, my younger plant.

001.JPG

This is the shorter type. Flowered, seeded, up the wazoo, as we say in thees' country . . . .

004.JPG

Both make a great hedge to hide the ugly butt view of my neighbor's roof and provide that illusion of pastoral purity, in the country.

I'm thinking mine must be the shorter type then. It flowered this year right before that trunk died, so no seed. The trunk that flowered was only about 1' tall. Want to get rid of some of that seed?

[LilikoiLee]

There seems to be 2 forms of it;

The smaller, hardier form is native to the Ryukyu Islands of Japan. This one has recently been named a seperate species, Arenga ryukyuensis.

The larger form is from Taiwan and slightly less hardy. It is still Arenga engleri.

One thing I have noticed. Both of these palms have been grown in Florida for decades and I see intermidiate forms as they have hybridized.

I have both in my garden, right next to each other.

The small one is a bit older, and seems to want to seed faster. Both are making a nice privacy hedge. Not as fast as some plants, but well worth the wait.

The blossoms' fragrance fills up the garden.

Seeds, anyone?

I would REALLY like to have some of these in our garden. Are you offering seeds (I think & hope)?

Lee

[akamu]

[sarasota alex]

I visited the Zilker Botanical Garden in Austin, TX yesterday and there is a very healthy looking Arenga engleri growing there, albeit small with leaves shorter than normal, probably from past winter setbacks.

There used to be a very nice specimen in Houston, TX at the Mercer Arboretum. It was badly hurt after the Jan 2010 week-of-freezes in the lower 20s. Then came back, but looked completely dead following another similar week but with a freezing rain in Feb 2011. Then came back yet again with some new stems by the beginning of the 2011/2012 winter. When I was in Houston again two months ago it was no longer there.

[_Keith]

There is a huge one at Bok Tower Gardens.

[edbrown_III]

all mine came back after the 80s freezes 10 f -14 C

all tall plants now perhaps 15 feet nothing has arrested their grow th sinc e then. some short some tall

Best regards

Ed

[Sabal Steve]

Is there anything special in regards to germination? Do the seeds need to be cracked or something. 0 germination rate over the last 6 months or so. I use multiple techniques, but this is an even perlite/peat mix, and getting around 90 in the day. Maybe warmer, in a dark shed.

[gyuseppe]

I have sown arenga engleri in 2006, have germinated after one year, on 10 seeds are germinated 8

[paulgila]

yes,they take a while & some patience is required.

[Ed in Houston]

Here are a couple of pics of my Aenga engleri in Houston. These images are from about 2005 when they were about 15 years old. The coldest it has seen was 22F for two winters in a row, 3-4 years ago. It was undamanged in those freezes. The palm is not much larger today than in 2005 being about a foot taller and foot wider.

Ed in Houston

[stevethegator]

That looks awesome! Very tropical looking.

If I lived in 9a I'd plant a grove of those

[Walter John]

I must have the smaller version after reading this thread, missed it first time around. Thanks Keith and all.

[Sabal Steve]

They look much tidier in the sun.

[_Keith]

Here are a couple of pics of my Aenga engleri in Houston. These images are from about 2005 when they were about 15 years old. The coldest it has seen was 22F for two winters in a row, 3-4 years ago. It was undamanged in those freezes. The palm is not much larger today than in 2005 being about a foot taller and foot wider.

Ed in Houston

Great looking garden. Very nicely laid out.

[David in Berkeley]

I planted a few of these back in 2008 in a spec home landscape being flipped, then moved them into my own garden when the house didn't sell. They seem to be in permanent stasis here and barely grow any new fronds at all. They aren't much good for climates that are heat deprived like mine here in Berkeley.

[_Keith]

I planted a few of these back in 2008 in a spec home landscape being flipped, then moved them into my own garden when the house didn't sell. They seem to be in permanent stasis here and barely grow any new fronds at all. They aren't much good for climates that are heat deprived like mine here in Berkeley.

They like heat, but mine did not take off until they got lots, and I mean lots of water.