Us humans...

[Stevetoad]

Some of the threads lately have got me thinking. I hear "we are destroying the ecosystem" and how bad we are for earth. It got me thinking. Why are we so quick to throw the human race out of the evolution of the earth? Why is it that our actions (good or bad) are not considered part of nature? The goal of any life form is to breed and expand the range of its species and humans have done that remarkably well. Why is it that if a bird carries a seed over a mountain range and the plant grows and flourishes its "nature at work" yet if a human lets a seed go its now "invasive". The new "invasive" plant is now doing the best thing it can do at the expense of the "native" plants. Every action we make has a positive reaction for some life form and at the same time is detrimental to others. Still humans like to hold ourselves outside of the natural order and play narrator to the world we are a part of. And why would animal and plant life try to stop at expanding there range to only earth? On day humans might travel to another planet like mars and terraform it into a new earth. At that point we will be the only species that can expand thousands of earthly creature beyond this planet. We are (probably) the only creatures on earth to feel guilt. Therefore we feel responsible for everything on earth. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. Just trying to draw attention to the fact that we are just another piece in the evolutionary puzzle. As good or as bad as you feel us humans are. There are thousands of creatures that we are destroying and thousands that are taking advantage of our actions. We are neither good or bad for the ecosystem. Just simply a part of it.

[paulgila]

there are alot of extinct animal & plant species that would disagree with you on that last bit,i think,steve

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

I don't think this is about guilt, this is about survival. We are part of the ecosystem and we're slowly destroying the very web of life we depend on, that's why there is so much fuss about human activity. We're in the biggest mass extinction period in history, all of it caused by humans. If you grow palms from Madagascar, you know this.

Those who are concerned about our survival will try to get the attention of those who choose to ignore what is happening. Unfortunately, instead of taking responsibility, some just choose to feel guilty and end up doing nothing, or react against the call of action.

Feeling guilty helps no one and doesn't cause action. Taking responsability is the right path. Don't feel guilty, just try to do the best you can to help, even if it's unpleasant to be conscious of all the environmental destruction. Go party, have a beer, enjoy life, but also take time to think about what is happening to our environment and what sort of world we are leaving behind for our children. Then choose some sort of path of action, something small, like cleaning a beach or selling that Exxon or BP stock, or buy an electric car, or better yet, try to ride a bike more (provided your neighborhood isn't full of crazy Hawaiian drivers). And plant a palm in your garden that is threated by extinction, that one is really easy.

[_Keith]

We are simply the last of a whole series of chaotic forces to influence the course of life on this planet. The earth did not miss us before we came and won't miss us when we are gone. The thing we stand to screw up is ourselves. And that is why we should tread with care.

[Hammer]

I don't think this is about guilt, this is about survival. We are part of the ecosystem and we're slowly destroying the very web of life we depend on, that's why there is so much fuss about human activity. We're in the biggest mass extinction period in history, all of it caused by humans. If you grow palms from Madagascar, you know this.

I am all for being responsible. I control what I can, using synthetics as little as possible for example. Being responsible also applies to the facts. This isn't the biggest mass extinction period in history. Perhaps in our collective "memory" but not history. Second, some not all is caused by humans. We've gotta be honest with ourselves about what the problems and their causes actually are. Then we can get about the business of solving...instead of chasing red herrings and wasting time, money and freedom in the process.

[Dypsisdean]

We're in the biggest mass extinction period in history

Up for debate - and certainly not the only mass extinction event.

http://www.endangeredspeciesinternational.org/overview.html

"Many species vanished in five cataclysmic mass extinctions and today, 99.9 percent of all species that have existed on Earth are extinct." I would think it safe to say that more of these species have become extinct from "natural" causes than from recent "man made" causes.

As the original poster said, how is it possible not to consider us a natural part of the evolution of our planet? It is entirely possible that eons from now this brief period will be the "Humanoid Period," with the human life-form rising, flourishing, and itself becoming extinct, as the Earth continues to transition into more periods of differing life forms and diversity, then mass extinctions in a constant repeat of the process, as it did before we were here - a completely natural cycle.

Modern man is still but a blink of the eye in the historical time line.

[tank]

The big difference from what is happening now versus past is that past extinctions were the results of uncontrollable events. Even up to the recent past, extinctions and changes caused by humans could be chalked up to the race generally being oblivious. Now we have a pretty good idea what effects "humans doing human stuff" have on species and the natural world (however you define natural). It may not be one human making the conscious decision to kill off a species or change a system, but collectively we are generally OK with it or we collectively would be making more substantive changes to the way we operate.

Also, as long as demand for resources (food, water, land, energy) continues to increases, no amount of efficiency will reverse our current trajectory of species extinction and conversion of the "natural" to something less natural.

You have to reduce demand for these resources on a scale that isn't collectively palatable to most people at this time to even make a dent.

Now I need a stiff drink.

[Dypsisdean]

The big difference from what is happening now versus past is that past extinctions were the results of uncontrollable events.

Is it possible that humanity is also an uncontrollable event?

[tank]

The big difference from what is happening now versus past is that past extinctions were the results of uncontrollable events.

Is it possible that humanity is also an uncontrollable event?

Collectively? Maybe. But that train of thought sounds more like an excuse than anything else.

[Jerry@TreeZoo]

The big difference from what is happening now versus past is that past extinctions were the results of uncontrollable events.

Is it possible that humanity is also an uncontrollable event?

Collectively? Maybe. But that train of thought sounds more like an excuse than anything else.

Of course "Humanity" is a controllable event. There have been, and there continues to be lots of plans for controlling Humanity. Some of those plans are a little unpalatable to some of us though.

Here is a plan. Instead of limiting "Humanity" and throwing obstacles in our way and placing all sorts of controls over us, boxing us in and regulating us unto death, why not embrace our Humanity, set us free and let us flourish? Freedom is a scary concept to those who want to control us, but Freedom is the only thing that will save us.

A free society, a free humanity will flourish. It will raise us out of the depths of subsistence and poverty. It will naturally control our populations and enrich us to be able to afford the technology to sustain both the natural world and the human world. And it works every time it is tried.

[Zeeth]

Are we humans, or are we dancer?

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

The big difference from what is happening now versus past is that past extinctions were the results of uncontrollable events.

Is it possible that humanity is also an uncontrollable event?

Collectively? Maybe. But that train of thought sounds more like an excuse than anything else.

Of course "Humanity" is a controllable event. There have been, and there continues to be lots of plans for controlling Humanity. Some of those plans are a little unpalatable to some of us though.

Here is a plan. Instead of limiting "Humanity" and throwing obstacles in our way and placing all sorts of controls over us, boxing us in and regulating us unto death, why not embrace our Humanity, set us free and let us flourish? Freedom is a scary concept to those who want to control us, but Freedom is the only thing that will save us.

A free society, a free humanity will flourish. It will raise us out of the depths of subsistence and poverty. It will naturally control our populations and enrich us to be able to afford the technology to sustain both the natural world and the human world. And it works every time it is tried.

Freedom for whom? Freedom for the large corporations to continue to freely ransack and destroy the crap out of our environment while restricting and infringing upon the freedom of individuals such as native tribes, or do you mean true freedom for everyone? Freedom for everyone works only if you restrain those who want to use that freedom to take freedom from others, hence the dillema with "freedom". You need laws to enforce "freedom" because the world is still full of dushebags, unfortunately, dushebaginess in the form of ignorance and hate is encoded in our DNA so the dushebags are not going away anytime soon.

This is the biggest mass extinction in history in terms of rate of extinction. All the other extinction periods may have killed off more total numbers of species, but it did not happen at the alarming speed this one is happening. And one thing is for certain, when we are down to just a handful of species populating the planet, we will be toast as well.

[tank]

Oh goodness....

We American humans should all adhere to the Swanson Pyramid of Greatness:

http://www.thereformedbroker.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/swanson-pyramid.png

[Funkthulhu]

The big difference from what is happening now versus past is that past extinctions were the results of uncontrollable events.

Is it possible that humanity is also an uncontrollable event?

Collectively? Maybe. But that train of thought sounds more like an excuse than anything else.

Of course "Humanity" is a controllable event. There have been, and there continues to be lots of plans for controlling Humanity. Some of those plans are a little unpalatable to some of us though.

Here is a plan. Instead of limiting "Humanity" and throwing obstacles in our way and placing all sorts of controls over us, boxing us in and regulating us unto death, why not embrace our Humanity, set us free and let us flourish? Freedom is a scary concept to those who want to control us, but Freedom is the only thing that will save us.

A free society, a free humanity will flourish. It will raise us out of the depths of subsistence and poverty. It will naturally control our populations and enrich us to be able to afford the technology to sustain both the natural world and the human world. And it works every time it is tried.

Freedom for whom? Freedom for the large corporations to continue to freely ransack and destroy the crap out of our environment while restricting and infringing upon the freedom of individuals such as native tribes, or do you mean true freedom for everyone? Freedom for everyone works only if you restrain those who want to use that freedom to take freedom from others, hence the dillema with "freedom". You need laws to enforce "freedom" because the world is still full of dushebags, unfortunately, dushebaginess in the form of ignorance and hate is encoded in our DNA so the dushebags are not going away anytime soon.

This is the biggest mass extinction in history in terms of rate of extinction. All the other extinction periods may have killed off more total numbers of species, but it did not happen at the alarming speed this one is happening. And one thing is for certain, when we are down to just a handful of species populating the planet, we will be toast as well.

Events like the K-T boundary (~75% of all species) or the Permian Extinction (~95% of all species) were essentially instantaneous in the fossil record, what is your evidence that the current rate of extinction is faster or more extensive?

How is our steady exploitation of our environment more rapid than, say, a massive asteroid impact?

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

The big difference from what is happening now versus past is that past extinctions were the results of uncontrollable events.

Is it possible that humanity is also an uncontrollable event?

Collectively? Maybe. But that train of thought sounds more like an excuse than anything else.

Of course "Humanity" is a controllable event. There have been, and there continues to be lots of plans for controlling Humanity. Some of those plans are a little unpalatable to some of us though.

Here is a plan. Instead of limiting "Humanity" and throwing obstacles in our way and placing all sorts of controls over us, boxing us in and regulating us unto death, why not embrace our Humanity, set us free and let us flourish? Freedom is a scary concept to those who want to control us, but Freedom is the only thing that will save us.

A free society, a free humanity will flourish. It will raise us out of the depths of subsistence and poverty. It will naturally control our populations and enrich us to be able to afford the technology to sustain both the natural world and the human world. And it works every time it is tried.

Freedom for whom? Freedom for the large corporations to continue to freely ransack and destroy the crap out of our environment while restricting and infringing upon the freedom of individuals such as native tribes, or do you mean true freedom for everyone? Freedom for everyone works only if you restrain those who want to use that freedom to take freedom from others, hence the dillema with "freedom". You need laws to enforce "freedom" because the world is still full of dushebags, unfortunately, dushebaginess in the form of ignorance and hate is encoded in our DNA so the dushebags are not going away anytime soon.

This is the biggest mass extinction in history in terms of rate of extinction. All the other extinction periods may have killed off more total numbers of species, but it did not happen at the alarming speed this one is happening. And one thing is for certain, when we are down to just a handful of species populating the planet, we will be toast as well.

Events like the K-T boundary (~75% of all species) or the Permian Extinction (~95% of all species) were essentially instantaneous in the fossil record, what is your evidence that the current rate of extinction is faster or more extensive?

How is our steady exploitation of our environment more rapid than, say, a massive asteroid impact?

The asteroidal impact didn't kill species on contact. The fall out from the impact - mostly climate change took much longer to kill off species than human activity is doing it now.

You can read more about it here: http://www.mysterium.com/extinction.html

This is the point of view held by the majority of biologists:

"The speed at which species are being lost is much faster than any we've seen in the past -- including those [extinctions] related to meteor collisions," said Daniel Simberloff, a University of Tennessee ecologist and prominent expert in biological diversity who participated in the museum's survey. [Note: the last mass extinction caused by a meteor collision was that of the dinosaurs, 65 million years ago.]

Most of his peers apparently agree. Nearly seven out of 10 of the biologists polled said they believed a "mass extinction" was underway, and an equal number predicted that up to one-fifth of all living species could disappear within 30 years. Nearly all attributed the losses to human activity, especially the destruction of plant and animal habitats.

[Funkthulhu]

The asteroidal impact didn't kill species on contact. The fall out from the impact - mostly climate change took much longer to kill off species than human activity is doing it now.

You can read more about it here: http://www.mysterium.com/extinction.html

This is the point of view held by the majority of biologists:

"The speed at which species are being lost is much faster than any we've seen in the past -- including those [extinctions] related to meteor collisions," said Daniel Simberloff, a University of Tennessee ecologist and prominent expert in biological diversity who participated in the museum's survey. [Note: the last mass extinction caused by a meteor collision was that of the dinosaurs, 65 million years ago.]

Most of his peers apparently agree. Nearly seven out of 10 of the biologists polled said they believed a "mass extinction" was underway, and an equal number predicted that up to one-fifth of all living species could disappear within 30 years. Nearly all attributed the losses to human activity, especially the destruction of plant and animal habitats.

Now we're arguing semantics.

I direct you to Lonesome George: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lonesome_George

The last tortoise of his kind, George's species has been functionally extinct since at least the early 1970's even though he didn't die until 2012.

Each species of Dinosaur was instantaneously extinct when the asteroid hit, the deaths of individuals may have taken awhile. The nuclear winter that followed the impact may have taken years, or even decades to kill off the dinosaurs, but it was far faster and more complete than our own 50,000 year march to planetary domination...

Also, seriously dude, where do you find these websites?

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

The asteroidal impact didn't kill species on contact. The fall out from the impact - mostly climate change took much longer to kill off species than human activity is doing it now.

You can read more about it here: http://www.mysterium.com/extinction.html

This is the point of view held by the majority of biologists:

"The speed at which species are being lost is much faster than any we've seen in the past -- including those [extinctions] related to meteor collisions," said Daniel Simberloff, a University of Tennessee ecologist and prominent expert in biological diversity who participated in the museum's survey. [Note: the last mass extinction caused by a meteor collision was that of the dinosaurs, 65 million years ago.]

Most of his peers apparently agree. Nearly seven out of 10 of the biologists polled said they believed a "mass extinction" was underway, and an equal number predicted that up to one-fifth of all living species could disappear within 30 years. Nearly all attributed the losses to human activity, especially the destruction of plant and animal habitats.

Now we're arguing semantics.

I direct you to Lonesome George: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lonesome_George

The last tortoise of his kind, George's species has been functionally extinct since at least the early 1970's even though he didn't die until 2012.

Each species of Dinosaur was instantaneously extinct when the asteroid hit, the deaths of individuals may have taken awhile. The nuclear winter that followed the impact may have taken years, or even decades to kill off the dinosaurs, but it was far faster and more complete than our own 50,000 year march to planetary domination...

Also, seriously dude, where do you find these websites?

Really? You saw it happen? You have evidence it took just one year? And seriously, dude, where do you find your websites?

[PALM MOD]

Please guys - remain cordial - I am really bending the rules here. This is interesting stuff - especially to people like us who are close to nature.

So if you want to be able to discuss things like this, try sticking to facts and avoid your long standing personal/political predispositions. Try challenging your own "beliefs" and keep an open mind, and use discussions like this as an opportunity to learn and perhaps grow in your understanding.

[DoomsDave]

So, the question might come down to:

Are we humans really any worse about causing extinctions than, say asteroids hitting the earth?

Maybe that's the wrong question.

[DoomsDave]

Please guys - remain cordial - I am really bending the rules here. This is interesting stuff - especially to people like us who are close to nature.

So if you want to be able to discuss things like this, try sticking to facts and avoid your long standing personal/political predispositions. Try challenging your own "beliefs" and keep an open mind, and use discussions like this as an opportunity to learn and perhaps grow in your understanding.

I dunno, that's a biggie . . .

[Funkthulhu]

Please guys - remain cordial - I am really bending the rules here. This is interesting stuff - especially to people like us who are close to nature.

So if you want to be able to discuss things like this, try sticking to facts and avoid your long standing personal/political predispositions. Try challenging your own "beliefs" and keep an open mind, and use discussions like this as an opportunity to learn and perhaps grow in your understanding.

Sorry, I guess I allowed my formal education and 2 degrees in geology to overly influence my "beliefs" on this topic. . .

[Jerry@TreeZoo]

Oh goodness....

We American humans should all adhere to the Swanson Pyramid of Greatness:

http://www.thereformedbroker.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/swanson-pyramid.png

This deserves a post of its own.

[_Keith]

Please guys - remain cordial - I am really bending the rules here. This is interesting stuff - especially to people like us who are close to nature.

So if you want to be able to discuss things like this, try sticking to facts and avoid your long standing personal/political predispositions. Try challenging your own "beliefs" and keep an open mind, and use discussions like this as an opportunity to learn and perhaps grow in your understanding.

Sorry, I guess I allowed my formal education and 2 degrees in geology to overly influence my "beliefs" on this topic. . .

Don't be so self conscious. It's not your fault the plates have shifted and now your degrees are off.

[PALM MOD]

Sorry, I guess I allowed my formal education and 2 degrees in geology to overly influence my "beliefs" on this topic. . .

Apparently you missed my point that often times "beliefs" and facts can be at odds in a person's mind. I was only suggesting that facts should take precedence, especially when it comes to science. And that without open minds, willing to be challenged, what is the purpose of even engaging in these types of discussions? But that was not directed at you.

However, remaining cordial and polite has no correlation to formal education or how degreed someone is. That was directed at you.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

I think this is a really interesting topic and I am glad Steve posted it. The question that Steve originally asked is a moral question, not a scientific question. My view is that we are flying across space on this spaceship called "earth" and it's the only one we've got, so we can't really afford to screw up. The extinction of species that is happening now doesn't need to be compared to another mass extinction to justify it or not. I have a moral obligation to my children, and we have a collective responsibility to not soil the nest for the next generation. Unlike for global warming, for this one we have irrevocable evidence it's happening now, and we have a responsibility to stop it. In PalmTalk terms, I want my kids to have access to the riches of palms of Madagascar and around the world, and I don't want to see it disappear.

As for the scientific question as to whether the KT mass extinction happened within a day, a week, a month or a year, or a hundred years, or a thousand years, there is no established truth at this point, as this is still a very active area of research. I do not have a background in geology, but I do have access to Google scholar. Here's an interesting paper: http://gsabulletin.gsapubs.org/content/105/8/979.short. We're trying to reconstruct what happened a long, long time ago using geological records. Whatever comes out of that is going to be highly deductive in nature and should be taken lightly. Best we will ever be able to do is speak in terms of probabilities as to what happened. There is only one thing I am sure of: if it was a meteor that caused it, and there was a dinosaur standing underneath it where it crashed, I am sure it didn't even last a minute.

Edit: here's a BBC documentary about the mass extinction that supposedly happened 250 million years ago. It's an interesting watch!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wn62AjIpWMw

[_Keith]

Going back to the post that started all of this, Steve, you might enjoy this book.

The Botany of Desire A PLANT'S-EYE VIEW OF THE WORLD

Every schoolchild learns about the mutually beneficial dance of honeybees and flowers: The bee collects nectar and pollen to make honey and, in the process, spreads the flowers’ genes far and wide. In The Botany of Desire, Michael Pollan ingeniously demonstrates how people and domesticated plants have formed a
similarly reciprocal relationship. He masterfully links four fundamental human desires—sweetness, beauty, intoxication, and control—with the plants that satisfy them: the apple, the tulip, marijuana, and the potato. In telling the stories of four familiar species, Pollan illustrates how the plants have evolved to satisfy humankind’s most basic yearnings. And just as we’ve benefited from these plants, we have also done well by them. So who is really domesticating whom?

A documentary film based on The Botany of Desire premiered on PBS in October 2009. More information on the film can be found atwww.pbs.org/thebotanyofdesire.

[DoomsDave]

Oh goodness....

We American humans should all adhere to the Swanson Pyramid of Greatness:

http://www.thereformedbroker.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/swanson-pyramid.png

This deserves a post of its own.

Jerry

WHOA! Is that who I think it is?

I thought he was tried and executed recently . .

[trioderob]

because the human brain advanced to the point where it could do extreme abstract thought

this allowed it to create machines

these machines can create much more damage to the earth than the other animals can.

it also gives us the smarts to know why that is not a good thing.

you only wrote the thread because you agree with me.

if you did not agree with me you would have made thread called "i think we should kill off all the wildlife "

[DoomsDave]

Am I allowed a naked picture for my avatar?

[Hammer]

MOD makes a good point. Why bother engaging if one isn't willing to listen?

And, yes, Steve's point/question is a moral one. As a resident of the planet each person's views must be weighted equally. If I were to put forth the argument that only lawyers and political scientists are fit to comment on and develop policy I am sure that notion would be rejected. And rightfully so.

Degrees are only as useful and valuable as the person wielding them. Some of the wisest and most intelligent people I know don't have formal educations. But when they speak, I listen.

That said, I do find this topic interesting. I disagree with some points and agree with others. Regardless of perspective I love this forum and appreciate this thread. And I even like the individuals posting...still.

[Hammer]

Am I allowed a naked picture for my avatar?

Depends on who it is a picture of.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Going back to the post that started all of this, Steve, you might enjoy this book.

The Botany of Desire A PLANT'S-EYE VIEW OF THE WORLD

Every schoolchild learns about the mutually beneficial dance of honeybees and flowers: The bee collects nectar and pollen to make honey and, in the process, spreads the flowers’ genes far and wide. In The Botany of Desire, Michael Pollan ingeniously demonstrates how people and domesticated plants have formed a

similarly reciprocal relationship. He masterfully links four fundamental human desires—sweetness, beauty, intoxication, and control—with the plants that satisfy them: the apple, the tulip, marijuana, and the potato. In telling the stories of four familiar species, Pollan illustrates how the plants have evolved to satisfy humankind’s most basic yearnings. And just as we’ve benefited from these plants, we have also done well by them. So who is really domesticating whom?

A documentary film based on The Botany of Desire premiered on PBS in October 2009. More information on the film can be found atwww.pbs.org/thebotanyofdesire.

I read the book and watched the documentary, this is definitely worth watching. Palms are enlisting humans to help them propagate simply because they are so beautiful.

[Stevetoad]

Interesting stuff guys. But still no one has answered WHY we separate ourselves from nature. We have a symbiotic relationship with so many plants and animals like pigs/corn/dogs and PALMS. We have are responsible for helping these plants and animals reach every corner of the globe. Something they could have never done on there own. We have destroyed trees and wildlife to help others flourish. We are helping one creature reach great numbers while killing off others. It's all evolution. No matter if you want it to be or not it just is.

[Dypsisdean]

I am challenging the point that this is a moral question - not taking sides - only provoking thought.

I am questioning whether it is anymore achievable to prevent the next meteor from striking the Earth as it would be to change human behavior? Will humans always need food, water, shelter? Will they always want better? Will humans always have the desire to procreate? Will humans always become jealous, envious, and seek to control other humans? Or can we change that?

Morality implies that there is and always will be choice. Will that always be the case? Certainly not for everyone, and not in every situation. Morality disappears (even for the most moral of us) when the going gets tough. Drop you and a hundred friends in the middle of a desert with a small pool of water big enough to support only three of you and see how morality plays out.

Unfortunately it is only in a perfect and pleasant world that morality has a chance. Life in the 21st century developed world has given us the luxury to even ponder this. So while it might feel good to talk about human morality saving the Earth and all its creatures, I'm afraid it will be human nature that prevails in the end - because human nature is every bit an intricate part, and one in the same, as mother nature - ruthless, and with only the survival of the fittest as final word.

[PALM MOD]

I can feel those of you with strong religious beliefs having an extremely difficult time refraining from expressing your thoughts in these matters. I know you would love to proclaim that your religion has all the answers to all the questions we are asking. So I'll say it for you, and you don't have to risk bringing this topic to a screeching halt.

[PALM MOD]

Am I allowed a naked picture for my avatar?

Not if it's one of you.

[DoomsDave]

Am I allowed a naked picture for my avatar?

Not if it's one of you.

Touche!

You ARE paying attention . . . .

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

I am challenging the point that this is a moral question - not taking sides - only provoking thought.

I am questioning whether it is anymore achievable to prevent the next meteor from striking the Earth as it would be to change human behavior? Will humans always need food, water, shelter? Will they always want better? Will humans always have the desire to procreate? Will humans always become jealous, envious, and seek to control other humans? Or can we change that?

Morality implies that there is and always will be choice. Will that always be the case? Certainly not for everyone, and not in every situation. Morality disappears (even for the most moral of us) when the going gets tough. Drop you and a hundred friends in the middle of a desert with a small pool of water big enough to support only three of you and see how morality plays out.

Unfortunately it is only in a perfect and pleasant world that morality has a chance. Life in the 21st century developed world has given us the luxury to even ponder this. So while it might feel good to talk about human morality saving the Earth and all its creatures, I'm afraid it will be human nature that prevails in the end - because human nature is every bit an intricate part, and one in the same, as mother nature - ruthless, and with only the survival of the fittest as final word.

Survival of the fittest is useless if no one can survive so there is actually a pretty big incentive to do something. Ignorance is the problem. Ignorance of the fact that killing off too many species harms our own ability and chance to survive.

As far as how humans treat themselves and others, perhaps some day we can do enough genetic manipulation that we can get the human species to evolve beyond greed, hatred and ignorance. Of course, in the future, people will be half biological, half machine anyway. People have already made the leap into cyborg land by being glued to their smart phone all day. Won't be long before those things will be embedded directly into your brain, and body parts slowly get replaced by android parts.

Check out this for a good read: http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/faculty/vinge/misc/singularity.html. They predict it's only another 30 years before it's upon us. The claim is that if you can stay alive until about 2040, you will become "immortal". If you think it's crazy, think again, Google is apparently investing in this. One of the main singularity guys works for Google now. But then, some say this is why the singularity is already over. http://www.technologyreview.com/view/508901/by-hiring-kurzweil-google-just-killed-the-singularity/

Scared? Curious? Having fun yet?

Edit: I just had to add this quite from the second article, it's hilarious: I've never heard the singularity called the "rapture of the nerds", but that seems like such a great term.

Late last Friday, Google announced a jaw-dropping hire: Ray Kurzweil will join the company as a Director of Engineering. Has the world’s brainiest tech company suddenly bought into Kurzweil’s“rapture of the nerds” b.s. “technological singularity” ideas? Hardly. They’ve just signed The Singularity’s death warrant by putting its chief proselytizer to work doing what he does best: inventing better machines for the real world, not writing science fiction. For this, Larry Page should get some kind of medal.

[SanDimas]

I always thought Dypsis Dean and the Palm MOD were one and the same???

Pardon my innocence...Im new here.

[SanDimas]

I hope Ill be around and running strong @2040.

So does that mean ill be 70 years old forever

or can we be 28yo forever beyond 2040?

VERY INTERESTING