Climate of Extreme South Florida Truly Tropical?

[SubTropicRay]

1 hour ago, Silas_Sancona said:

..So, by this " theory, "  does this mean that mountainous areas located  on  the Equator,  that see night time temps dip into ..or below.. 50  ..that they aren't tropical?.   

Even up on a " cold " mountain in Panama, Columbia, or Costa Rica,   majority of the Flora and animals found there are quite tropical.. 


...Also..  does the " temps Never goes below 50F ..Ever..  rule theorized mean these areas  ..well outside the " True " tropics  ..are..  Tropical?  ..by that definition??

First, let's forget the latitudes and the straight lines that define the "tropics".  You and I both know that's BS.  There are some mountainous places on the equator that never freeze but you can't live without a light jacket on a daily basis.  Cool and comfortable days followed by chilly nights that never approach the freezing mark is by definition temperate.   I don't care if that's on the Equator or the north pole. 

Defintion

Temperate:  Moderate temperatures, not too hot or too cold, with averages often around 50F.

Ceroxylon palms look very tropical and grow at high altitudes in Andes but it's downright cool in the daytime fog and the temps never truly warm.  At night, it's in the 40's for hours.  That's no more tropical than a beach location in the Mediterranean.  

Good old AI

• Vertical Zonation: Temperature is primarily determined by altitude. Lower areas (up to ~4,900 ft) are tropical/subtropical, mid-elevations (roughly 7,500–11,500 ft) feature mild, temperate, or "eternal spring" climates, and high elevations (>14,000 ft) are consistently cold and alpine.

Alpine climates on the equator?  Who knew.

 

[Aceraceae]

In cultivation, the term "ultra-tropical" is used instead, and refers to at least zone 12, a zone which rarely dips below 50, and usually has never been below 40.

Bermuda and Key West are zone 12a, barely, and both can be chilly and even 10b Coconut palms stuggle somewhat in Bermuda due to a lack of high heat, with the annual temp there barely above 70 (21 C), a good 5 degrees F (3 C) cooler than Miami. 

The most equatorial islands in the world such as Palmyra Atoll and Nauru have never been below 70, and many other near equatorial low elevation regions have never been below 60, and are those 13b etc zones that the USDA started designating when it added Puerto Rico to it's purview. Nauru would be zone 14 if USDA graded it, and it also gets enough year round rain to be climate type Af, equatorial tropical rainforest climate. 

So I guess only Nauru is "truly tropical". If only it wasn't degraded by poor soil and destructive phosphate mining that left it with little ecological succession. 

Edited February 12 by Aceraceae

[Cape Garrett]

On 2/1/2014 at 1:33 AM, stevethegator said:

I think this is pretty good too. I went to undergrad at UF and when I'd drive home to visit my family you would definitely notice a difference when you got south of Ocala (more "subtropical" with syagrus, pheonix, etc. starting to appear widely and temperate hardwood species becoming less abundant), and then a much more sudden difference once you got to the Stuart area.

 

Like you said, that southern "tropical" line also corresponds nicely with the native distribution of tropical hardwoods and most epiphytic orchids, as well as the ability to reliably grow Cocos.

 

Maybe Koppen was on to something after all with his "random" choice of 64.4F (18C, the 64.4 makes a lot more sense now Walt pointed that out! I'm not that dumb I swear)

This map is wrong even in 2014.  On both coasts.  Fort Myers to the coast of Lee county should be included.  And too far north on the east coast.  Didn't attach the map. Can't find it now.

[flplantguy]

Mixing up "tropical" and "equatorial" is aprt of it, tropical is a climate status not a latitude, but it is also most prevalent at those latitudes so they are the "tropics" instead of "equatorial zone" or something else. Just like "polar" and "arctic" and "tundra" aren't exactly the same but very similar. Mixing up geography and ecology/climatology is part of it, but the other part is the unique nature of many locales means they can't be just lumped into a classification together and get the same results with gardening. The subtleties matter every time.

[Silas_Sancona]

30 minutes ago, Cape Garrett said:

Like you said, that southern "tropical" line also corresponds nicely with the native distribution of tropical hardwoods and most epiphytic orchids, as well as the ability to reliably grow Cocos.

 

Hi- lit portion of this statement says it all...   Aside from a couple that extend further north to ~approx. Cen. FL.,  South FL. is where you'll find all the other Epiphytic Orchid sps that occur in the state  ..let alone anywhere north of Mexico / the Caribbean in this section of North America..  

Same thing with most epiphytic Bromeliad sps ( wider / green - leaved species esp. )  and all New World Cycad Genus / sps that are native to areas north of Mexico and / or the Caribbean. 

If South FL.  didn't exhibit the right characteristics,  ..the ones that most authorities consider tropical in nature,  Keys would be the only locations where species within these families would be found.  Keys would also be the well defined northern limits of all the other tropical family plants that grow much further north in the state. 

Reproductive Coconuts can be found at 3+K ft in Mexico / other areas in the tropics that can experience chilly,  sub 40F mornings,  so using them as a reference to define how " Tropical " an area might  ..or might not..  be ... is glorified conjecture,  rather than an anything i'd bet on. 








 

 

[80s Kid]

There's a lot of subjectivity with this topic which is why I wanted to try and get everyone to agree on a specific definition of what is "truly tropical." However, it's probably not possible unless you make the definition more specific. I thought about the ability to grow the red sealing wax palm as a benchmark but that likely wouldn't work either because of other nuances...for example, the climate of Dubai. 

Personally, I just consider sea level within the tropics as "truly tropical" in terms of weather but I fully acknowledge that there's still a lot of variation (i.e. Tampico, Mexico has recorded snow and much of the west coast of South America is cooler due to the cold water current). 

[cocoforcoconuts]

On 2/12/2026 at 4:42 AM, SubTropicRay said:

Truly tropical areas NEVER get this kind of weather.   Very warm subtropical?  Absolutely.  Truly tropical?  Hell no.

 

On 2/12/2026 at 8:39 AM, SubTropicRay said:

 

Let's start with no temps below 50F ever. The 50F is pretty liberal because many in those regions would find anything in the 50's "frigid" 😄.

As others have pointed out, the problem with this statement and criteria is it is completely arbitrary and subjective. There is no rule that asserts this. Your arbitrary cutoff of 50F means Cancun is subtropical. How does that make any sense?

The only sensible metric to evaluate climate zones is the flora and fauna that can live in a given area, and only as a whole because you can always find unique species that are not even able to grow throughout the tropics.

Tampico is within the tropics, at sea level, and without a major cold water current offshore cooling its climate. Its flora and fauna is tropical consistent with areas to the south. There is no basis whatsoever to claim Tampico does not have a tropical climate, and Miami's climate is warmer. 

[cocoforcoconuts]

On 2/12/2026 at 11:23 AM, flplantguy said:

Mixing up "tropical" and "equatorial" is aprt of it, tropical is a climate status not a latitude, but it is also most prevalent at those latitudes so they are the "tropics" instead of "equatorial zone" or something else. Just like "polar" and "arctic" and "tundra" aren't exactly the same but very similar. Mixing up geography and ecology/climatology is part of it, but the other part is the unique nature of many locales means they can't be just lumped into a classification together and get the same results with gardening. The subtleties matter every time.

This!

[cocoforcoconuts]

22 minutes ago, cocoforcoconuts said:

Tampico is within the tropics, at sea level, and without a major cold water current offshore cooling its climate. Its flora and fauna is tropical consistent with areas to the south. There is no basis whatsoever to claim Tampico does not have a tropical climate, and Miami's climate is warmer. 

In the winter months that is. Tampico's climate is negligibly warmer in terms of annual mean due to hotter summers.

[Yunder Wækraus]

10 minutes ago, cocoforcoconuts said:

This!

This is a reasonable statement, but “tropics” in English means between the Tropics of Cancer and Capricorn; “equatorial” means at or near the equator. One could not call the Bahamas an “equatorial nation,” nor would anyone say that Townsville, Australia is “equatorial.” However, “tropical” Australia is only so referenced when it is within the tropics. 
 

The problem is climate types, which are a mix of flora, temperature, and rainfall, include the term “tropical,” and a such, S. Florida is a tropical climate, but it is not within the tropics and can never have the same minutes of winter sunshine as anywhere in the true tropics. From that perspective, even Key West is subtropical, despite its being more temperate in winter that high-altitude, inland parts of tropical Queensland. 

[cocoforcoconuts]

1 minute ago, Yunder Wækraus said:

This is a reasonable statement, but “tropics” in English means between the Tropics of Cancer and Capricorn; “equatorial” means at or near the equator. One could not call the Bahamas an “equatorial nation,” nor would anyone say that Townsville, Australia is “equatorial.” However, “tropical” Australia is only so referenced when it is within the tropics. 
 

The problem is climate types, which are a mix of flora, temperature, and rainfall, include the term “tropical,” and a such, S. Florida is a tropical climate, but it is not within the tropics and can never have the same minutes of winter sunshine as anywhere in the true tropics. From that perspective, even Key West is subtropical, despite its being more temperate in winter that high-altitude, inland parts of tropical Queensland. 

The title of this thread is "Climate of Extreme South Florida Truly Tropical?" The first perspective in your second paragraph is the only relevant one to this discussion and horticulture forum. The second perspective is irrelevant

For the purposes of discussion here, nobody is considering Bogota tropical despite its latitude

[Yunder Wækraus]

1 minute ago, cocoforcoconuts said:

The title of this thread is "Climate of Extreme South Florida Truly Tropical?" The first perspective in your second paragraph is the only relevant one to this discussion and horticulture forum. The second perspective is irrelevant

For the purposes of discussion here, nobody is considering Bogota tropical despite its latitude

And yet, Bogota IS tropical! And S. FL’s climate—however “tropical” it may be—will never be as tropical as even a cool montane climate within the true tropics. 
 

I lived in Australia’s Wet Tropics for over seven years. Our house had an unprotected lipstick palm out front as standard landscaping. Before that, I lived in Florida. Both places had hot, humid summers. Both had dry, cool winters. 90% of the landscaping plants were shared. But only FL has its tropical gardeners worry almost every year about possible cold snaps. Not once in seven years was there a low in Cairns that threatened my plants. 
 

I now live in Tasmania, the coldest state in Australia. We’re at the equivalent latitude of Chicago. There’s a huge bougainvillea on our street (never protected), fruiting passion fruit in the city centre, queen palms, and even a few king palms! None is protected during winter. In other words, the lowlands of Australia’s coldest state is more temperate than north FL, and whatever you can grow in Key West may be grown in parts of temperate Australia well outside the tropics, yet few (if any) of such areas would be argued to be truly tropical. 
 

I love Florida, and, yes, S. Florida has a broadly tropical climate, but unlike such climates within the true tropics, palm enthusiasts are in for long-term stress and heartache because it’s not truly a tropical location.  

[cocoforcoconuts]

1 hour ago, Yunder Wækraus said:

And yet, Bogota IS tropical! And S. FL’s climate—however “tropical” it may be—will never be as tropical as even a cool montane climate within the true tropics. 
 

I lived in Australia’s Wet Tropics for over seven years. Our house had an unprotected lipstick palm out front as standard landscaping. Before that, I lived in Florida. Both places had hot, humid summers. Both had dry, cool winters. 90% of the landscaping plants were shared. But only FL has its tropical gardeners worry almost every year about possible cold snaps. Not once in seven years was there a low in Cairns that threatened my plants. 
 

I now live in Tasmania, the coldest state in Australia. We’re at the equivalent latitude of Chicago. There’s a huge bougainvillea on our street (never protected), fruiting passion fruit in the city centre, queen palms, and even a few king palms! None is protected during winter. In other words, the lowlands of Australia’s coldest state is more temperate than north FL, and whatever you can grow in Key West may be grown in parts of temperate Australia well outside the tropics, yet few (if any) of such areas would be argued to be truly tropical. 
 

I love Florida, and, yes, S. Florida has a broadly tropical climate, but unlike such climates within the true tropics, palm enthusiasts are in for long-term stress and heartache because it’s not truly a tropical location.  

In terms of climate Bogota is not tropical by any stretch of the imagination. How many tropical plant enthusiasts would prefer to live in Bogota over Miami? Can you please explain your logic for the first bolded statement? Unless you are speaking in geographical terms, which again is irrelevant to the topic of conversation, that statement does not make any sense. Is the climate at the summit of Puncak Jaya tropical?

Your second bolded statement is inaccurate for South Florida and is misapplying Central Florida climate characteristics (and gardening struggles) to South Florida. The topic of this thread is South Florida, not Florida as a whole. Even in this historic cold event, Miami by and large suffered little beyond minor superficial cold stress to tropical horticulture. The "subtropical with tropical characteristics" description you and others are attributing to South Florida is more apt for describing the coastal barrier islands of Central Florida

I fail to see how you consider South Florida and Tasmania even remotely comparable. You can't even grow a coconut palm in Tasmania meanwhile they grow like weeds in South Florida. Nobody is talking about North Florida, and certainly nobody here has ever claimed North Florida is tropical.

Flora and fauna distributions disagree with your sentiment on South Florida's climate, and I am curious as to what you would call Tampico's climate.

[Yunder Wækraus]

35 minutes ago, cocoforcoconuts said:

In terms of climate Bogota is not tropical by any stretch of the imagination. How many tropical plant enthusiasts would prefer to live in Bogota over Miami? Can you please explain your logic for the first bolded statement? Unless you are speaking in geographical terms, which again is irrelevant to the topic of conversation, that statement does not make any sense. Is the climate at the summit of Puncak Jaya tropical?

Your second bolded statement is inaccurate for South Florida and is misapplying Central Florida climate characteristics (and gardening struggles) to South Florida. The topic of this thread is South Florida, not Florida as a whole. Even in this historic cold event, Miami by and large suffered little beyond minor superficial cold stress to tropical horticulture. The "subtropical with tropical characteristics" description you and others are attributing to South Florida is more apt for describing the coastal barrier islands of Central Florida

I fail to see how you consider South Florida and Tasmania even remotely comparable. You can't even grow a coconut palm in Tasmania meanwhile they grow like weeds in South Florida. Nobody is talking about North Florida, and certainly nobody here has ever claimed North Florida is tropical.

Flora and fauna distributions disagree with your sentiment on South Florida's climate, and I am curious as to what you would call Tampico's climate.

No, it’s very relevant. This whole argument is confusion over the ambiguity between tropical as a climate designation and tropical as a physical, geographical designation. The reason for the confusion lies in the reality that a truly tropical location, when it happens to have what we would term tropical flora, is always going to be different from what we find outside of the tropics, including in South Florida, where we do have tropical vegetation and, in general, a tropical climate. In the case of Bogota, there is just gonna be more winter sunshine than you’ll have outside of the tropics.
 

I’m pretty sure most of us here understand all of this. Yes, South Florida has a broadly tropical climate, and supported a subset of tropical Laura natively, and now a huge number of tropical plants have been brought in successfully. No, no part of Florida is within the tropics, and this partly explains why every single corner of the state gets colder than it would were it in the tropics. Yes, there are places within the true tropics that are at the same elevation as Florida that can get colder than Florida, but there is no peninsula or island in the true tropics of which I am aware they can get as cold as Florida does as regularly as it does.

 

This is where Florida’s physical location outside of the tropics matters: there’s a natural limit to how far you can push things over the course of a century because it’s tropical climate is not in the true tropics. were Florida more temperate and in the tropics, we wouldn’t have these long discussions because we’d all be like people who live in Puerto Rico and it would be nothing to plant all these plants and there wouldn’t be an annual white-knuckle terror about this or that freeze.

[80s Kid]

Again...What is "truly tropical?" Unless there is a predefined and agreed upon definition, it's just a subjective term in which everyone will have their own criteria and there's not really any point in arguing the matter. 

[Atlanta Area Palm Guy]

I consider extreme South Florida tropical.  It's the cold end of tropical, but it still fits the definition (as I see it).  Kind of like how Nashville would be the cold end of subtropical, but it fits the definition (as I see it).

[Sabal_Louisiana]

in a basic sense, A tropical climate is defined by a location/area within some proximity to the Equator (esp between the lines of Cancer and Capricorn) where the mean temperature during the coolest month is above 18c/64 f. Miami meets this qualification yet it’s climate is still considered ‘humid subtropical’. Humid subtropical is too broad by definition. Virginia is also considered humid subtropical.

Many places outside of the tropics never freeze. Cairo is at 30 north and I think has never dropped below 34f.
Bermuda is not tropical by location but meets the criteria by climate. It has never had a recorded temperature less than 5c/41 f and has a mean temperature in Jan of about 64f.
By contrast, Southern coastal China and Tampico, MX are tropical, but on rare occasion, have experienced a brief freezing temperature near sea level.

Edited February 21 by Sabal_Louisiana
Edit

[SeanK]

On 2/16/2026 at 1:13 PM, Atlanta Area Palm Guy said:

I consider extreme South Florida tropical.  It's the cold end of tropical, but it still fits the definition (as I see it).  Kind of like how Nashville would be the cold end of subtropical, but it fits the definition (as I see it).

I wouldn't even call Nashville warm-temperate. Snow every year is normal.

[bubba]

This is a perfect time at latitude 26.71°(north of the Old Monkey Jungle) to chime in on this subject! This area of SE Florida is definitely not within the tropics (23° latitude) and we just experienced a cold event that it is necessary to travel back thirty-seven (37) years to find a cold event more severe. However, I would argue from the perspective of what grows and the overall warmth of the climate, that in many manners, it can be considered tropical-like.

I detailed at the very bottom of the thread titled "Historic East Florida Freeze, February Screenshots" the climate data experienced during this cold event. At PBIA, on February 1, and February 2 of this month, low temperatures of 31°F were recorded for a total of three hours below freezing. This certainly does not dovetail into an easy discussion of a tropical like climate.

That stated, I also detailed how the end of the month tally for the month of February 2026 at PBIA was a cumulative median temperature of 64.84°F. This eclipses the 64.4°F required in all months for a technical tropical connotation under Koeppen/Trewarthia. January 2026 had a cumulative median temperature of 67.01°F.. December 2025 had a cumulative median temperature of 71.84°F. All of these temperatures were recorded at PBIA. Parenthetically, even in our coldest event in 37 years, we met the tropical criteria for Koeppen/Trewartha.

That was not the case during the December 1989 freeze. During that cold event, the cumulative median temperature for December 1989 was 57.48°F. The cumulative median temperature for January 1990 was 66.37°F. The cumulative median temperature for February 1990 was 70.04°F. All of these temperatures were recorded at. PBIA.

In my other post above described, I detailed with specificity the weather underground station in Palm Beach referred to as Device One-KFLPALMB 251. During the February 2026 cold event, this device recorded an ultimate low temperature of 38.3°F with a cumulative median temperature of 67.8°F. That taps into another theory that I have based upon observations regarding a micro climate experienced in this area because of proximity to the.Gulfstream/Florida Current. I will not open that door in this conversation.

More to the point, the obvious question becomes what grows? I have posted pictures in various threads of the tropical vegetation and palms in this area and how they have been affected. Ultimately, what can be grown in an area, particularly after a cold event, should lend some perspective regarding the tropical character of a place.

Anne Norton Sculpture Gardens is adjacent to the Intracoastal and my knowledgeable friend Felix, who is the real man on the ground taking care of the palms, testified to me that AN did not experience a freeze. Please find some recently photographed specimens at AN:

Neoveitchia storkii, which is indigenous to the Fiji Islands:

 

 

Licuala grandis-over ten feet tall and indigenous to the Solomon Islands. These specimens are likely over 70 years old.:

 

Hydriastele beguinii-Indigenous to the Maluku Islands and likely over 70 years old:

 

Pritchardia pacifica-indigenous to Fiji and Tonga and must be over 50 years old:

 

 

Pritchardia thurstonii-indigenous to Fiji and Tonga and likely over 50 years old:

 

 

Cocos nucifera-PB/ indigenous to Southeast Asia, or the islands of the Pacific. Ubiquitous and not threatened:

 

Cyrtostachys renda-indigenous to Sumatra and Borneo. These specimens are approximately three years old:

 

 

 

These are located at Phipps Park in PB:

 

Ceiba pentandra-PB-Kapok tree indigenous to Central America. This specimen is the Florida champion and most certainly the largest in the 48 states. It is briefly deciduous and loses its leaves at the commencement of the dry season. This specimen was nearly removed arbitrarily by Henry Flagler's wife because it repeated her view. Fortunately, she met with opposition. It was planted in the 1890s so it must be approaching 135 years old:

 

In conclusion, my belief is that what is tropical is determined by what grows!

[bubba]

Some additional shots around and about, L grandis at Four Arts:

 

Bottles at Four Arts:

 

Other things: