Jump to content
REMINDER - VERY IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT ABOUT FUTURE LOG INS TO PALMTALK ×

  • WELCOME GUEST

    It looks as if you are viewing PalmTalk as an unregistered Guest.

    Please consider registering so as to take better advantage of our vast knowledge base and friendly community.  By registering you will gain access to many features - among them are our powerful Search feature, the ability to Private Message other Users, and be able to post and/or answer questions from all over the world. It is completely free, no “catches,” and you will have complete control over how you wish to use this site.

    PalmTalk is sponsored by the International Palm Society. - an organization dedicated to learning everything about and enjoying palm trees (and their companion plants) while conserving endangered palm species and habitat worldwide. Please take the time to know us all better and register.

    guest Renda04.jpg

Amending with DG

NorCalWill

By NorCalWill
in DISCUSSING PALM TREES WORLDWIDE

 Share

Recommended Posts

NorCalWill Experienced

NorCalWill

Posted
Posted

I just finished amending a large burm with 40% DG, 40% native soil, and 10% organic matter in preparation for a palm, hoping to improve drainage.

After watering it thoroughly, I discovered that it doesn't drain that well at all, in fact small puddles form and remain for a long time.

I was hesitant to add more organic matter because I thought that might cause rotting in the winter. So now I am not sure what to do...

Water will likely run off of the burm easily in the winter, but for summer watering it won't penetrate the soil very well.

Any advice?

Also did some research on gypsum...

http://puyallup.wsu.edu/~linda%20chalker-scott/Horticultural%20Myths_files/Myths/Gypsum.pdf

Mauna Kea Cloudforest Grand Master

Mauna Kea Cloudforest

Posted
Posted

I am no soil engineer but I do know that often, freshly worked soil doesn't drain as fast. You should let the soil "cure" for a while before you conclude you have a drainage issue.

I have sandy soil and when I first plant a palm with amended organics, I also see much slower drainage. In fact, I will often rework the soil to slow drainage so I get better watering coverage. It takes about a month for the soil to naturally aerate.

Axel at the Mauna Kea Cloudforest Bioreserve

On Mauna Kea above Hilo. Koeppen Zone Cfb (Montane Tropical Cloud Forest), USDA Hardiness Zone 11b/12a, AHS Heat zone 1 (max 78F), annual rainfall: 130-180", Soil pH 5.

Click here for our current conditions: KHIHILO25

KennyRE317 Mentor

KennyRE317

Posted
Posted

I am no soil engineer but I do know that often, freshly worked soil doesn't drain as fast. You should let the soil "cure" for a while before you conclude you have a drainage issue.

I have sandy soil and when I first plant a palm with amended organics, I also see much slower drainage. In fact, I will often rework the soil to slow drainage so I get better watering coverage. It takes about a month for the soil to naturally aerate.

i also notice this as well.

KennyRE317 Mentor

KennyRE317

Posted
Posted

also create a swale during the dry season and water into it

sonoranfans Grand Master

sonoranfans

Posted
Posted

Is that 40% gypsum(DG?). If so that is not a good idea as you are creating massively high calcium in your soil... :bemused:

Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

NorCalWill Experienced

NorCalWill

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Is there gypsum in Decomposed Granite?

MattyB Grand Master

MattyB

Posted
Posted

No, Tom just doesn't know that we Californians call Decomposed Granite DG. I'm not sure how chunky the DG was that you used, but there's always fines in DG that will settle to the top and create a skin which impedes drainage. Mulching will prevent the fines from always floating to the surface and creating that skin, which is why bare dirt around plants is always sucky. Mulch that mound and you'll be fine.

Matt Bradford

"Manambe Lavaka"

Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)

10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)

9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

KennyRE317 Mentor

KennyRE317

Posted
Posted

Is there gypsum in Decomposed Granite?

no gypsum in decomposed granite but decomposed granite contains clay and adding gypsum would help prevent it from compacting too bad. so far I've used over 100lbs of gypsum in my yard and it's not fun mixing it into the clay

sonoranfans Grand Master

sonoranfans

Posted
Posted (edited)

No, Tom just doesn't know that we Californians call Decomposed Granite DG. I'm not sure how chunky the DG was that you used, but there's always fines in DG that will settle to the top and create a skin which impedes drainage. Mulching will prevent the fines from always floating to the surface and creating that skin, which is why bare dirt around plants is always sucky. Mulch that mound and you'll be fine.

Yep I actually though DG might be decomposed granite, but the gypsum link at the end threw me. Phil Bergman has a nice "how to plant a palm tree article that shows and discusses soil drainage and correction of drainage

http://www.junglemusic.net/articles/HowToPlantAPalm.html

the "knowing what type of soil" you have section is appropriate as is "how is your drainage" section.

Phil has probably grown more palms than I have ever even seen, he is a guy I would listen to.

Edited by sonoranfans

Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

NorCalWill Experienced

NorCalWill

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

That is a great article Tom, thank you.

Matty, yes, I see a layer of clay from the DG. I even took a nursery gallon container and filled it with only DG and water and an hour later the water was still sitting on the surface, 2 hours later the water was gone, but the DG was sopping wet.

Phil's article mentions that soil with a high DG content generally drain well, so like Axel said earlier, perhaps I need to relax and let the soil cure before I over-react and dig it all out and start over.

I am a bit crazy over this particular planting. It is a Bismarkia. I really feel that I can grow this palm where I live especially after seeing one over the weekend at the palm meeting in Union City. Yes, I get a little colder an wetter, but with proper soil I think I can succeed.

I have tried Bismarkia in the past, but I think the reason I have failed is because of too much organic amendment in the soil, not enough burm, and gophers.

This time I dug a 3' deep hole x 4' wide hole, lined it with gopher wire, backfilled it with DG, dirt, and a small amount of organics, then built up an 18" burm on top of that with the same soil. I will then mulch, and do my best to keep it wet in the summer and dry in the winter.

Wew...and if it survives, I'm going to throw a party.

Edited by Will
  • 11 months later...
Scott Mentor

Scott

Posted
Posted

So has the Bismarkia survived? It would be great to see a photo.

Scott

San Fernando Valley, California

Sunset Climate Zone 18

DoomsDave Grand Master

DoomsDave

Posted
Posted

Matt has it

I think

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

NorCalWill Experienced

NorCalWill

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Dead...didn't even make it to January after the December cold snap...

Sabal uresana has taken it's place. :)

Mauna Kea Cloudforest Grand Master

Mauna Kea Cloudforest

Posted
Posted

Urseana is the perfect choice, should thrive in Santa Rosa!

Axel at the Mauna Kea Cloudforest Bioreserve

On Mauna Kea above Hilo. Koeppen Zone Cfb (Montane Tropical Cloud Forest), USDA Hardiness Zone 11b/12a, AHS Heat zone 1 (max 78F), annual rainfall: 130-180", Soil pH 5.

Click here for our current conditions: KHIHILO25

  • 8 months later...
Moose Grand Master

Moose

Posted
Posted

Dead...didn't even make it to January after the December cold snap...

Sabal uresana has taken it's place. :)

:badday::crying:

Coral Gables, FL 8 miles North of Fairchild USDA Zone 10B

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing



  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...