New Palm Nut from Cyprus

[CYPALMS]

Hi all!

My name is George and i am from Cyprus. Having studied Agriculture i guess i had the proper background to start something myself, and what would be more exciting than palms?

Here in Cyprus we are facing the weird situation where everybody wants to have tropical looking gardens and everybody is planting palms in their gardens. Problem is though that our nurseries only provide few species and they all provide the same...Archontophoenix, Arecastrum, Phoenix robellini/dactylifera/canariensis, Washingtonia, and occasionally some Bismarckias, Butias, or Chamaerops. The landscaping ideas are exhausted with the addition of Strelitzia's, a Cycas revoluta here and there and in some cases a banana tree is thrown in the mix.

And that is happening with a genera of more than 2500 species that can grow in so many places. Stunned by this lack of imagination and bored of seeing the same palms in every corner, i started looking around for a way to change this, and who knows eventually to create a new business out of it. In this quest i stumbled upon Palmtalk and discovered its wealth of information and here i am creating a new topic in which i will be sharing my efforts along with some interesting photos and comments.

Till my first palm post...

regards

George

[Kim]

Welcome to PalmTalk, George! I look forward to hearing more about your garden. There are other enthusiasts from the Mediterranean on the forum who may commiserate with you.

[CYPALMS]

Latania loddigesii

My first order came from Rarepalmseeds and included amongst others Latania loddigesii.

The first seeds germinated only 8 days after they had been presoaked for 3 days and placed in a zip lock bag with 1:1 perlite:vermiculite moist mix.

Here they are

After the germination and before the root got too long, i used a water bottle 25cm high and placed the seed on top of the same mix perlite/vermiculite, to accommodate the sinker (remote germination). 20 days later i realised that it wasnt enough and i had to add an extra 12cm of the mix at the bottom of the bottle until the plummule would surface.

50 days after germination and just when the tap root was reaching the bottom of the extra cup i had placed as an extension, the tip of the plummule surfaced to my joy. It was time to get rid of the bottle and place the "seedling" in a proper pot.

Obvious from the photos above, the root was 25cm long already and therefore a 5g pot seemed suitable at this stage. The potting mix used was 60% sand, 20% compost and 20% perlite, in order to get a free draining mix. Note that the soil surface is lower at a point where the roots are covered thinly and the seed is suspended on air

2 months after germination the first true leaf emerges

And that is the story of my first 8 Latanias, ready to conquer the skies

George

[Xerarch]

Welcome! You're right, there should be many species that you could grow in the very mild climate of Cyprus. You should find a wealth of information here.

[Walter John]

Hi George, I hope you eventually have a fine set up there for palms and cycads. It sounds like a lot of potential.

Do you have your own land where you can plant out ? How much do you have ? Do you have any trees at all ? How is the annual rainfall averages there ?

sorry for too many Qs, just curious.

[HorsesnPalms]

Welcome George! We are happy to have another Palm Nut on Palmtalk. You will certainly fit right in .

Great job on those Latania's they are a truly stunning palm. They are one of my favorites.

[sarasota alex]

Welcome George!

[Jim in Los Altos]

Welcome to PalmTalk, George. Sounds like, if tropical style landscaping is popular in your area that you have a good chance of making a business out of supplying less common palms and companion plants. Good luck to you. You're starting out right as a hobbiest. You'll be ready to conquer the business of palms in due time.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Welcome to PalmTalk, and thanks for the visuals on germination. I have my share of seeds to germinate so I am very interested in your post.

I don't know much about Cypress, you must have a nice warm balmy climate. I am very interested in why you chose latania. I have stayed away from latania because according to the socal palm guide, here in California Latania are terribly slow so they are not a great choice. Although the juvenile forms are quite nice and they stay that way a long time. Do these grow well in cypress?

[greekpalm]

καλως ορισες!

απ'οτι ξερω ειμαστε 5 - 6 ελλαδιτες και 1 απο κυπρο.

We would love to merge our experiences with yours. I was in cyprus a few months ago and i saw also many triangle palms.What else have you been growing?

Once again, i welcome you to the forum. and keep us updated

[CYPALMS]

@Kim : Thanx for the welcome. My home garden is now 3 years old and it consists of the species i described in my original post, those available in the nurseries at the time i was doing it. Will post some in a couple of days, to give you an idea about it.

@Xerarch: Thanx also for the welcome. Indeed Cyprus provide some good conditions for palm growing, as we rarely see temps below 0 C (maybe once or twice a year at the coastal areas). I would say that scorching summer sun and temps of 40 C could be a bigger danger, although that would be for seedlings mostly and not for established palms. Then again, what do we have shade cloths for?

@Wal: Thank you for the welcome. I do have my own land. First is a piece of 500 m² right at the front of my house which is supposed to be planted and maintained by the municipality. Since they dont have the money to do it, i guess i will do my own landscaping starting from here. Then i do have another 3000m^2, at the back of my house which can also serve as a temporary place to keep seedlings or even be planted with what i will be growing. Time will tell. As for trees, i do have some 6m tall Brachychiton which i find very interesting tree and fast growing. They have grown from 1.5m when planted to 6m in just under 3 years. That is of course except the palms and other plants i have in the garden. As for average rainfalls this link explains it all http://www.moa.gov.cy/moa/ms/ms.nsf/DMLcyclimate_en/DMLcyclimate_en

@HorsesnPalms: I am happy to be part of this community! Thanx for the nice comment on Latania's. I also find them a spectacular species.

@Sarasota_Alex: thanx for the welcome

@Jim: Thanx for the welcome. There is a great interest for tropical gardens here despite that there is not a single native tropical species. As i explained earlier, it is beyond me why we are stuck with 15-20 species and thats it. I will certainly look for the commercial end of my hobby and i look forward to share my experiences with you and receive the always usefull feedback and comments from all of you.

@Axel: Thank you! You can be sure that more visuals will follow on every species i will try to grow, along with some comments. After all it is a kind of research for me which also satisfies my needs to keep learning. The choice of Latania was because of its rarity, the bluish/silver colour it is described to have, and the fact that according to what i have read so far it will adopt easily in our climate. The fact that they are slow does not bother me and as many fellow members said here before, it's not only about the destination but also about the journey

@greekpalm: We will surely merge our experiences as our places do share many common characteristics. I also growing, bismarckia (silver), Roystonea regia, Dypsis lanceolata/pilulifera/leptocheilos, Rhopalostylis sapida, Chambeyronia macrocarpa var hookeri, Strelitzia reginae (mandelas gold), Licuala ramsayi, coccothrinax crinita crinita, Joey Palms, Pritchardia Hillebrandii, Chamaerops humilis var cerifera, Veitchia Joannis, Kentiopsis pyriformis. All are from RPS seeds and half of them have already germinated and are in the process of being moved to temporary pots until sprouting. I will be sharing each species progress with you with analytical photos and comments. Any comments or suggestions for stunning looking palms for our territory are more than welcome. I am also going to try Heliconia farinosa soon (waiting for the seeds to arrive) and also Archontophoenix purpurea which is definately going to grow well here.

Till the next post...

George

[CYPALMS]

Bismarckia nobilis (silver)

After Latania's the next easy germinator was Bismarckia nobilis. Seeds were also placed in a baggie with damp perlite/vermiculite, despite the consensus that baggie method for bismarckia is a disaster. All you need to do to avoid disaster is to check every now and then to avoid the cotelydonary petiole to get to long.

Here is the first germinated seed, 1 month after it had been placed in the bag

Having read many warnings about how deep the sinker would be and after many failed attempts to get deep pots for this purpose (i could only find 14" pots in the US and it would cost 7x for shipping), i skipped the pots and followed the advice of a fellow member here who had posted a picture with custom length drain pipes, modified as pots. So i got myself a 6" diameter drain pipe and cut it in equal lengths of 50cm to create my custom pots to accomodate Bismarckias roots. The bottom of the pipe was closed with a mesh, the pipe filled with moist peat/perlite/vermiculite in equal parts and the seed was placed atop half buried. 25 days later i got curious and checked the bottom of the pipe, and to my surprise the tap root had just hit the mesh, while there was still no sign of sprouting.

Since it was my first one i thought to give it extra room to grow, so i easily removed the bottom mesh and added another 50cm piece of the same pipe, thus making the custom pot with a length of 1m in total.

3 days later and in total 32 days from germination, the first leaf emerged from the soil mix

I think that the root will eventually hit the bottom again, making it approximately 90cm long, although i am not sure how long the cotelydonary petiole will be and where the point of sowing will be when i will move it to a proper large container. At this point, any advice from the experts on how to move it from the drain pipe to a container would be very helpful.

Hope that it is interesting enough to get each step with visuals and comments, although i am sure there are previous attempts of other members.

George

[Cindy Adair]

I'm really enjoying all your photos which expand upon the wonderful information on this forum. Nothing like starting trees from seed and watching them change as they grow. Welcome!

[doranakandawatta]

Welcome George,

Thank you for showing such nice pics, seeds sprouting is always a wonderful time!

Funny to read that Latania loddigesii and Bismarckia are easy germinators!

Will you plant Latania in Cyprus gardens?

Kindest regards

Philippe

[CYPALMS]

Thanx for the welcome guys. Over the next few weeks more species will follow with visuals from seed to seedling, as well as measurements of roots, sinker and leaf.

Philippe, latanias had 8 out of 10 germinated in 10 days using baggie method with perlite/vermiculite so i guess they are easy. Temps were kept between 25-30 C. Bismarckia took a month for half of them to germinate and the rest have not gone beyond the accepted 3 month period so i can call them "easy"

Latania's i will keep them for my garden. For commecial use i would go for L lontaroides with its uncommon orange/red petioles and leaf base.

George

[doranakandawatta]

George,

Maybe you'll tell me what you'll see;

We had seeds of what we believed L. loddigesii (fruits we collected under the palm) but discovered reddish first leaves!

So we didn't know what we had, but I have been told that juvenile leaves of L. loddigesi are like L. lontaroides's , with reddish veins and petioles !

So you'll se how your loddigesii is doing!

we look forward to your next pics

regards

Philippe

[CYPALMS]

Philippe,

Although not an expert, and my latania's have just pushed the tip of their first leaf, i have read repeatedly both in this forum and other places that indeed Latania loddigesii at its juvenile stage will exhibit reddish petioles and veins, something that will disappear by time.

I will definitely update the post about Latania's as soon as there is a development in appearance

George

[Alberto]

Welcome to Palmtalk!

[Harry]

Welcome

You will find plenty of info on this forum about what can be grown successfully on our
island.

I tend to concentrate on the more unusual drought tolerant palms. Tropical species will
grow fine in this climate however they are demanding in terms of water and are
usually thrashed by the hot summer winds.

Get busy sprouting and good luck! You will find nothing of special interest in the local nurseries!

[Kostas]

Welcome to PalmTalk George! Its great to see another one from Cyprus is getting seriously into palms and planting some more variety! You have quite a nice climate there except for the lack of sufficient rainfall and the heatwaves which some palms dont like at all and need canopy protection to handle them.

I would ground plant all the Latania and the Bismarckia the soonest possible if i were you. The growth rate in pots is far slower than in the ground for the remote germinating palms and having to dig a 50cm hole is never pleasant,especially in dry ground,how much more a 90cm one! From what i have found germinating Bismarckia,the cotelydonary petiole of this species splits at around 25cm under the soil level and then the first root continues growing. Its ok to let the first root hit the bottom at around 40cm,even at 30 is ok but of course the best it to ground plant it before it hits anything. It doesnt have to have a plumule to ground plant it,when it hits the bottom of the first container,you can carefully get it in the ground.

Also no reason to plant the remote germinators with the seed suspended,they are made to bury their growing points for a reason,mainly stability issues are speculated as the extra underground trunk these species produce makes for a bigger root initiation zone and better stability as adult palms. They tend to do fine planted at the depth they germinate and bury their growing points at

Latania sp. are all pretty similar when adult,all blue/grey leafs but the most beautiful and elegant one is certainly the L. loddigesi. Having seen them all up close,i wouldnt grow any other Latania species than that one. Plus the juvenile color of this species is equally stunning to L. lontarioides and maybe even better up close! The seeds are a work of art too!

Some of the species you have chosen to grow will need permanent tree canopy over them for their whole height to make it through the heat waves like the Rhopalostylis sapida,Licuala ramsayi,Joey and maybe the Dypsis and some of the New Caledonian ones too. So planting a tall tree canopy for them now,to grow before they do,would be a good choice. My trees are in the race with my sun and heat intolerant palms and hopefully they will grow before they do! Wish i had planted the trees earlier,palms are fast!

Just some tips

Happy palm growing!!!!

[realarch]

Welcome to Palmtalk, I think you'll like it here.

Tim

[Ken Johnson]

Hi!

[Davi Aguiar]

Hi George!

Welcome to Palmtalk! Thank you for sharing your palm seed germination process!

Here in my city we also find in a typical plant nursery very limited palm species, and here we could probably grow a greater variety of palms than you do in Cyprus.

Good Luck!

Davi

[CYPALMS]

@Harry: i am sure there is plenty of information, after all that is one of the main reasons i decided to join the forum. Would be nice to know from which part of Cyprus you are, i am from Paralimni which makes me a coastal area more or less with higher humidity throughout the summer and with south to southwestern winds during the whole hot period (perhaps we get 5-6 days of north to northeastern winds only during summer which are dry). Unusual palms are also my main interest although Bismarckias i tried them of curiocity to see the whole process and to prove to some local nurseries that keeping a Bismarckia in a 25cm pot for 3 years is a waste of time and money. Local nurseries are boring actually as they only provide few species and nobody wants to risk with any new species.

@Alberto, Tim and Ken hi and thank you for the welcome. I am already liking it here

@Kostas: we have a lot to talk about...Rainfall wont be a problem as i just acquired a connection for recycled water which costs only 0.09 €/tn and so watering will never be a problem. RH is usually high due to constant south winds, although there are many home improvised solutions for misters for certain palms which may require something extra. You could be right about Latania's and Bismarckia's about grounding them, but for the time being and until i decide for the final landscaping scheme (which may require other species to germinate and grow first) i will keep them in the fairly large containers i have put them already. Its only 2 months i have started off with my first attempt and i have already 1000 seeds and 20 different species.
Latania had split just 6-7cm below soil surface so not much of a deal and i did suspend the seed out of fear of fungal attack at the underground parts. I can always put some extra soil and cover it at a later stage. For Bismarckia it is a whole different story though with 25cm below surface and i am thinking of taking your advice and leave it buried, although i will save myself 25cm of digging when grounding it .
For the canopy i have already something in mind but i would also like to know what have you planted to serve is canopy. I have read in another thread about Licuala ramsayi that as long as you provide adequate water they will do fine even in full sun and that makes me extra happy as i consider this Licuala a stunning palm and an eyecatcher and i do have 90/135 seeds sprouted already (pictures will follow when the first leaves will surface)

In anyway thank you for the tips and i will take them seriously in mind when i will make my final plans.

George

[greekpalm]

farkonis where in cyprus are you at ?

[CYPALMS]

Paralimni southeastern corner of the island

Edited July 29, 2013 by farkonis

[Phoenikakias]

Hello Farkonis, I hope you will enjoy our vivid forum! Your garden is on a slope or in plain? If former is the case I am afraid you have to forget the project of large canopy trees. As those would grow tall together with your palms, you will realize that regardless how much you water soil moisture will never be adequate enough for both kinds of plants, let aside that watering possibility (since you are provided with water by humans and not by nature directly) is more or less limited notwithstanding the price per unit. It is very probable that all the water (or the biggest part) you utilize will benefit only one of the plants (most probably the non palm), despite the frequency and intensity of watering. This way simply the non palmy plant will grow even faster sucking even more water. At least this happens in my place, where summer is warm to hot and dry. Ideal would be in such case a canopy made by palms. I suggest you try as many Syagrus and Coccothrinax spss as possible!

[greekpalm]

i agree about the human watering,, much of it gets "lost", but it does help a little bit. I dont have any non palms around so thats not a problem for me

[CYPALMS]

Thank you guys for welcome and support.

@Davi: it is sad how much lack of imagination can be out there. I would say i envy you living in Brasil as you could possibly try almost all species without serious problems. But still i can live with my facts here in Cyprus and try for s descent palm landscape

@phoenikakias: my place is a plain and to be more accurate a clay basin. When i was building my house and we tried to dig a well of 7m deep, the next day we visited it, we saw the water horizon to be just 2.5m below surface. I did some tests and found that its conductivity was 2.3 compared to the normal of 1.5 - 1.7. That meant there was higher than usual salt in it but still not so significant to inhibit growth. If we are talking about canopy trees with long tap roots, those will definitely seek the water below them which is endless. Also this type of soil holds to much moisture a feet below surface even in the summer so i guess that wont be much of a problem. I also saw an excellent idea in this forum, which was to plant some species with normal root system (not a deep one like Bismarckia for example) and plant them on a man made bump of soil (like 80cm tall for example), both an excellent landscaping idea and a way to avoid competition with large canopy trees.

I do take the suggestion for Syagrus seriously though and will start looking at this genus. If you could suggest some species you have tried yourself and they seem to do well in our kind of climate, i would love to hear about them. I could also add for such purpose Brachychiton acerifolius which grows extremely fast (6m tall and 3 meters wide in 3 years only) and when planted in our climate drops old leaves at the same time the new ones are formed, so it is not really a deciduous and moreover it requires little water.

Thanx for the tips and i think that i will benefit a lot from your comments guys.

George

[greekpalm]

why does everyone has water so close to the surface??

my neighbour drilled 50 meters below sealevel(180meters) and didnt find any water ...

btw i think your clay might cause you some problems in the winter

[Phoenikakias]

Manos, plains surrounded by mountains have worked for thousands and ten thousands of years as water collectors from the rain. Our place is not the ideal one for palms but think of it as a challenge! Use your innovation ability and your personal effort together with selected specimens to create fom a ragged place a paradise.

[greekpalm]

i know you did just fine, so i think with time and effort i will as well.

regarding my soil; we imported many trucks of light soiled clay (many rocks and some clayish soil) but underneath that (from 50cm to 2 meters deep) we have a very very bad soil, something between mudstone and marlstone (gray soil that in the summer turns into dust), i know that you dont have that soiltype. Water never goes through that type of soil, so thats also why we dont have any water im my area, but in the plains 1km south were all that waters goes to, is very wet the whole year through.

This type of soil is also very hard for roots to get through...

[greekpalm]

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/91538968

[Phoenikakias]

why does everyone has water so close to the surface??

my neighbour drilled 50 meters below sealevel(180meters) and didnt find any water ...

btw i think your clay might cause you some problems in the winter

Even if your neighbour would have found water in that depth, have you ever considered the cost of pumping it up? A neigbour of mine had also drilled to same depth and found water, but he had to build a pumping station, which resembles a tiny factory.

Edited July 30, 2013 by Phoenikakias

[greekpalm]

i know, but he wouldnt mind. we do collect 30 cubic meters of water each winter, so that helps just a little bit to ease the pain of waterbills

[Phoenikakias]

Manos you have the absolute growing accelerator stored, namely rain water! You chlorinate it or let it pure! My parents also had built as an integrated part of a terrace a water tank, which through a network of pipe lines used to collect from bulding's roof all rain water. And through another pipeline network with the help of switches and an electric pump they could replace in certain pipelines the tap water with the stored rain water and utilize latter in the garden. It should be a lesson to all us younger how older generations knew to adapt to the natural enviroment. Now this tank is idle, because it needs a new proofing of the walls.

[greekpalm]

mine collect rain water, but are stored underground. recently our pump died because a phoenix canariensis found its way into it and grew arround 5 kilos of roots in it... ofcourse they got tangled with the pump and burned the motor... this will be an ongoing problem ... but i will fish for palmroots every spring from now on.

btw we shouldnt hijack this thread :-) and let farkonis be, so he can keep us up to date ;-)

[mlovecan]

Hi George,

You've come to the right place for palm info and hospitality!

I've been growing my garden on Rhodes for 10 years now. Biggest problem over here is death due to heat - a number of species will rapidly deteriorate and die during Summer heat waves. If you get a lot of humidity ( much like Kostas ), you should have less of a problem with the heat.

When I arrived in Rhodes, the garden centers were selling maybe 6 species of palm - now the selection is only slightly better. There are some very good sources for palms in Germany ( RPS helps that a lot ) - most of mine have come from there.

Most of your selections seem to be in the right range - I'm not sure about the Joeys though...

Cheers and good growing!

Maurice

[CYPALMS]

Hi Maurice,

Thank you for your comments. Rhodes resembles even more closely the conditions in Cyprus. Both are islands and influenced by coastal conditions and they are not that far away either.

Joeys can be called beginners excitement, they weren't that expensive and 50% germinated in under a week while soaking in water. If i can manage and raise some of the 12 seeds i got, to good seedlings perhaps i can keep it potted indoors.

Despite the fact that it is a palm forum i have ready to post some analytical photos and commemts about strelitzia reginae (mandelas gold) which have already sprouted.

George

[Phoenikakias]

Thank you guys for welcome and support.

@Davi: it is sad how much lack of imagination can be out there. I would say i envy you living in Brasil as you could possibly try almost all species without serious problems. But still i can live with my facts here in Cyprus and try for s descent palm landscape

@phoenikakias: my place is a plain and to be more accurate a clay basin. When i was building my house and we tried to dig a well of 7m deep, the next day we visited it, we saw the water horizon to be just 2.5m below surface. I did some tests and found that its conductivity was 2.3 compared to the normal of 1.5 - 1.7. That meant there was higher than usual salt in it but still not so significant to inhibit growth. If we are talking about canopy trees with long tap roots, those will definitely seek the water below them which is endless. Also this type of soil holds to much moisture a feet below surface even in the summer so i guess that wont be much of a problem. I also saw an excellent idea in this forum, which was to plant some species with normal root system (not a deep one like Bismarckia for example) and plant them on a man made bump of soil (like 80cm tall for example), both an excellent landscaping idea and a way to avoid competition with large canopy trees.

I do take the suggestion for Syagrus seriously though and will start looking at this genus. If you could suggest some species you have tried yourself and they seem to do well in our kind of climate, i would love to hear about them. I could also add for such purpose Brachychiton acerifolius which grows extremely fast (6m tall and 3 meters wide in 3 years only) and when planted in our climate drops old leaves at the same time the new ones are formed, so it is not really a deciduous and moreover it requires little water.

Thanx for the tips and i think that i will benefit a lot from your comments guys.

George

Farkonis, try for a start Syagrus schizophylla...