Farewell for a while

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

It's been an interesting and fun ride. PalmTalk has helped shape a lot of the additions to my garden this Spring. I've planted a number of dypsis and New Caledonia plants.

The IPS is fantastic, and the local chapters and people are great too. I had almost a hundred people at the NCPS meeting at my house. I had a great time.

But sometimes, you gotta take a look at what consumes a lot of your time, but doesn't contribute much to your happiness. Unfortunately, for me, that's PalmTalk, which for me has not been the reflection of the incredible community the Palm Society really is.

So I will take a break from posting, but I'll still stop in and read a lot of your wonderful posts.

[Moose]

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/user/848-paul-the-palm-doctor/

[Jim in Los Altos]

Axel, Let me be one to say I have enjoyed and appreciated your participation on this board. In fact i often look for your posts first whenever I log into PalmTalk. I hope you will reconsider and keep posting. You offer a unique perspective with your experience and being in the Santa Cruz mountains that isn't otherwise available from anyone else here. C'mon don't leave.

[_Keith]

Dude, you are just sulking. In relation to PT, I have done it myself. When you get over it, come back and find your place. I did the same once. It'll all be good.

[MattyB]

Ok Trioderob. You really can't understand why people look at you funny when one day you start a thread like "what's the best fertilizer spikes?" And the very next day you're telling someone in another thread what fertilizer spikes to use? You know people are gonna be like "huh? " right? Well I guess now you do. Just be real dude.

[Palmə häl′ik]

*deleted comment*

[JEFF IN MODESTO]

Axel, Let me be one to say I have enjoyed and appreciated your participation on this board. In fact i often look for your posts first whenever I log into PalmTalk. I hope you will reconsider and keep posting. You offer a unique perspective with your experience and being in the Santa Cruz mountains that isn't otherwise available from anyone else here. C'mon don't leave.

I second what Jim said.

Jeff

[awkonradi]

Ditto

[sonoranfans]

Axel has contributed many interesting threads in the short time he has been on palmtalk, I hate to see such productive and interesting palm talker decide that he is uncomfortable here. Axel, there are plenty of us that read and enjoy those threads as you can see by the views. Don't let a squabble like this with a few members keep you from this board. The rest of us should consider that we can debate observations, facts, and issues without it getting personal. With an organization as large as palmtalk there will always be personality clashes, but we can do better and keep it from getting personal. People can just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Edited June 22, 2013 by sonoranfans

[PALM MOD]

There is a reason we chose "Ohana Nui" (Hawaiian for "Extended Family") as the name for our off-topic forum. Because like in a family (or with close friends) we sometimes "raz" those we feel the closest to. And when on a sports team, in a fraternity, the military, etc. - it's when you don't get "picked on" that you should feel left out and "unappreciated."

Some people have left PT because they felt they didn't get enough people to comment on their posts. So it's ironic that you should take the extra attention your posts seem to generate as a negative - instead of interpreting it as people's interest in wanting to agree with or challenge what you have said.

Granted, not everyone here is smooth and polished when it comes to social graces. But I think it is safe to say there is not a person who has replied to you who would not welcome you to their garden and discuss palms for hours in person. It's unfortunate that the written format leaves a lot of that sentiment lost in translation.

[KennyRE317]

Axel, Let me be one to say I have enjoyed and appreciated your participation on this board. In fact i often look for your posts first whenever I log into PalmTalk. I hope you will reconsider and keep posting. You offer a unique perspective with your experience and being in the Santa Cruz mountains that isn't otherwise available from anyone else here. C'mon don't leave.

.

[JEFF IN MODESTO]

Yup!

[LJG]

There is a reason we chose "Ohana Nui" (Hawaiian for "Extended Family") as the name for our off-topic forum. Because like in a family (or with close friends) we sometimes "raz" those we feel the closest to. And when on a sports team, in a fraternity, the military, etc. - it's when you don't get "picked on" that you should feel left out and "unappreciated."

Some people have left PT because they felt they didn't get enough people to comment on their posts. So it's ironic that you should take the extra attention your posts seem to generate as a negative - instead of interpreting it as people's interest in wanting to agree with or challenge what you have said.

Granted, not everyone here is smooth and polished when it comes to social graces. But I think it is safe to say there is not a person who has replied to you who would not welcome you to their garden and discuss palms for hours in person. It's unfortunate that the written format leaves a lot of that sentiment lost in translation.

Good post Dean. FYI, Axel has been to my house and has toured my garden (even after our famous Beccariophoenix Alfredii thread) and he is certainly welcomed again.

Axel, I will reply here rather than to the PM you sent me. I have told you numerous times online that I have no issue with you personally. I have enjoyed the majority of your post and your contributions. What I don't care for is the rejection of other people's experiences about things once you have made up your mind. On numerous occasions you have criticized books, Palmpedia and the PSSC Palm Guide just from a small amount of data you collected. Anyone can go back and see the only differences in opinion I have ever had were in threads where you stated your own facts based off very limited experience. Example, you plant one Roystonea borinquena and one Dypsis robusta, and because the RB doesn't grow right away it is concluded DR is the better plant for you. All this before one winter is concluded. I just don't get it. Especially considering you seem so scientific in many of your post.

An old Danish Proverb says "He knows the water best who has waded through it".

In the end you leave with this comment in your profile:

"PalmTalk burnout - too many run ins with unfriendly people"

I think it should read:

"PalmTalk burnout - too many people have a difference of opinion to go with my thin skin"

If you don't return to PT, I wish you the best. If you do understand people won't agree with everything you post and there is no sense getting hurt feelings from it. I certainly won't tell you I won't disagree with your future post or future observations should you return. You know how many times I have been told my observations are not what others have seen or that my experiences were different than others? Did you know even some of my closest palm friends have been the most critical of what I have submitted online? Do you think I don't know there are many posters here that do not care for me or my post? Maybe it's just the old Marine in me, but I just don't care. Neither should you.

For what its worth, I honestly would hate to see you go.

[doranakandawatta]

Axel,

As a new Palmtalk member (active since november last year only) I noticed your posts and for me your avatar name belonged for the most talking members's names.

And Santa Cruz mountains seemed to me very exotic and very far since I ignore where it is (sorry I am french).

I feel sad when I read that you have to take a break from posting, which didn't contribute much to your happiness.

I wish you a nice californian summertime and good growth of your palms and look forward seeing next posts and pics.

Kindest regards

Philippe

[pogobob]

"Smooth and polished when it comes to social graces" that's me. I used to think Len was a loon and now I know he is for a fact. Now I consider him one of my best friends! I think we are all a bit off center and that's what makes us all interesting people with lots of great knowledge and experiences to share. I can understand sometimes why my comments may seem a bit direct, but that comes from my own perceived slant on whatever. Next time your down this way Axel, let's arm wrassle for a beer.

[Pedro 65]

Axel, one thing that very much stands out in your posts is your "Keenness", which is very good to have and be proud of.

Wherever we are whether it be online or around the table for discussions about anything in life always involves "give and take", If we can "give" advice we must also "accept" advice.

All the best and I doubt with your "keenness" you will give up Palmtalk, it is good to have little breaks though imo. Pete

[Moose]

There is a reason we chose "Ohana Nui" (Hawaiian for "Extended Family") as the name for our off-topic forum. Because like in a family (or with close friends) we sometimes "raz" those we feel the closest to. And when on a sports team, in a fraternity, the military, etc. - it's when you don't get "picked on" that you should feel left out and "unappreciated."

Some people have left PT because they felt they didn't get enough people to comment on their posts. So it's ironic that you should take the extra attention your posts seem to generate as a negative - instead of interpreting it as people's interest in wanting to agree with or challenge what you have said.

Granted, not everyone here is smooth and polished when it comes to social graces. But I think it is safe to say there is not a person who has replied to you who would not welcome you to their garden and discuss palms for hours in person. It's unfortunate that the written format leaves a lot of that sentiment lost in translation.

Good post Dean. FYI, Axel has been to my house and has toured my garden (even after our famous Beccariophoenix Alfredii thread) and he is certainly welcomed again.

Axel, I will reply here rather than to the PM you sent me. I have told you numerous times online that I have no issue with you personally. I have enjoyed the majority of your post and your contributions. What I don't care for is the rejection of other people's experiences about things once you have made up your mind. On numerous occasions you have criticized books, Palmpedia and the PSSC Palm Guide just from a small amount of data you collected. Anyone can go back and see the only differences in opinion I have ever had were in threads where you stated your own facts based off very limited experience. Example, you plant one Roystonea borinquena and one Dypsis robusta, and because the RB doesn't grow right away it is concluded DR is the better plant for you. All this before one winter is concluded. I just don't get it. Especially considering you seem so scientific in many of your post.

An old Danish Proverb says "He knows the water best who has waded through it".

In the end you leave with this comment in your profile:

"PalmTalk burnout - too many run ins with unfriendly people"

I think it should read:

"PalmTalk burnout - too many people have a difference of opinion to go with my thin skin"

If you don't return to PT, I wish you the best. If you do understand people won't agree with everything you post and there is no sense getting hurt feelings from it. I certainly won't tell you I won't disagree with your future post or future observations should you return. You know how many times I have been told my observations are not what others have seen or that my experiences were different than others? Did you know even some of my closest palm friends have been the most critical of what I have submitted online? Do you think I don't know there are many posters here that do not care for me or my post? Maybe it's just the old Marine in me, but I just don't care. Neither should you.

For what its worth, I honestly would hate to see you go.

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/36544-b-alfredii-under-rated/?hl=beccariophoenix#entry571814

[Gary -]

see ya!!!

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

I appreciate the friendly comments, and I appreciate that the moderators did finally get around to deleting the negative character reference comments. It's really stupid of me to leave just because of one bad apple. But I actually do need to spend a little more time in the real world. 4th of July is around the corner, and I need to spend more time with my son and plant a few more palms. So I will still take a break from PalmTalk.

I don't mind snarky comments, never had an issue with Len disagreeing with me. One person in particular really went overboard with negative character references.

Just FYI, I really don't care to be accurate in my posts. For me, palm growing is like fishing. The fish gets bigger with every story. I have to be accurate in my job at work, my palm garden is where I can do away with all the precision and science. I post mostly because I like to talk and I like to write. A lot of what I write is probably total bs, and it's really up to the reader to discern, and anyone should feel free to call me on my bs, but making it about my character is just low.

I really enjoy the palm community, I had almost a hundred people at my house for the NCPS meeting. Everyone's house I've been to has also been incredibly welcome. Getting behind a keyboard is a bit like getting in a car for some people, they're different in real life, I guess I just need to take that into account.

And I'd love to take you up on the beer offer, Bob.

So farewell for now, see ya after the holidays.

[Jeff Searle]

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/user/848-paul-the-palm-doctor/

Oh yea, he'll help you out all right!

[kahili]

lol @ Jeff. Actually that was quite painful to see happen.

Axel-maybe I am the only one here who feels this way, but you definitely confuse me. After just reading that you don't care about accuracy in here, and that "most of what I write is total bs" after reading post after post of yours where you make these sweeping generalizations like they are facts or getting scientific in your posts and at least trying to sound experienced in palm growing......man-I am floored. I am not trying to be mean here-but I do care about accuracy-to the extent that one can be. There is a lot of snark in here for sure-but not when one is trying to find out how palms are going to grow in certain areas etc and why they do well or not. Also accuracy is good when trying to figure out why a palm is having problems etc. I just think you should think about that statement " probably most of what I write is total bs" some more and see if you really want to be know as full of it-cause to me, you just threw any credibility out the door.

I read all your posts in the last few days, and I can't think of who you are referring to when you say that a person attacked your character, hitting below the belt etc. I didn't see any of that. I saw people being honest with you -and I think that they were calling you out on your bs-which you just readily admitted to being full of. That happens when you are full of crap and try to act like you are not-you have to know that, right? Again, I am not trying to be mean, just being honest. There were two people that were both very honest with you, Len and Matt and they both have my respect and appreciation. I actually can't think of a person on this forum that has a larger heart and is full of kindness than Matt. I have total respect for Len, when he says something, I listen and when you disagree with him, he has the ability to come around if he is wrong and he learns that way. I really hope it wasn't either of them that you were complaining about.

Anyway, I hope you enjoy your time with your son-I am sure that he is happy to spend extra time with you!

[PALM MOD]

Please note: I have selectively edited some of the above posts to remove some words/language that were inappropriate. I think you all know what words are not permitted, and those who used them know who they are. So please remember to honor the requests of the IPS and keep this a "family friendly" atmosphere.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Let me clarify a little. Most of the stuff published in books and written up on PalmTalk is in a way kinda wrong, that includes what I've posted as well. I've been gardening for a long time, and about only a small fraction of what is published turns out to be true for my garden. Gardens are very, very complex ecosystems that behave in highly unpredictable ways, a tiny bit more predicable than people, but not by much. Anything I observe in my garden may or may not hold in another garden. People insist on predictability, they want to know everything. nature is too complex to fit neatly into the little compartments we create in our heads. That's what makes it fun.

When I come back, I'll make an effort to post in more vague terms, because that's really how gardening is anyway. A garden is far, far too complex to be able to make precise generalizations. It's not really possible to predict, unless you reproduce the original conditions in gory details. It's more like "This is what worked for me, your mileage may vary". Dolomite lime might be the elixir of life for my palms, it may kill yours. My kentias grow a leaf or two a month, yours may grow 5 or none at all. Some things are more predictable, such as me not being able to grow pritchardia pacifica or cocos nucifera outdoors in Northern California.

I hope this makes more sense. Gardening is more like poetry, it's more like a Zen koan, filled with endless contradictions. What's the sound of one hand clapping? If you can answer that, you'll get what I mean.

The collusion you see between me and others is more like prickles and goo running into each other. Watch this short video, and you'll get what I mean:

I am not afraid to be wrong or contradict myself, including the fact that I am still posting when I should be outa here. Over and out. Cheers, and y'all have a great 4th of July holiday.

[_Keith]

Let me clarify a little. Most of the stuff published in books and written up on PalmTalk is in a way kinda wrong, that includes what I've posted as well. I've been gardening for a long time, and about only a small fraction of what is published turns out to be true for my garden. Gardens are very, very complex ecosystems that behave in highly unpredictable ways, a tiny bit more predicable than people, but not by much. Anything I observe in my garden may or may not hold in another garden. People insist on predictability, they want to know everything. nature is too complex to fit neatly into the little compartments we create in our heads. That's what makes it fun.

When I come back, I'll make an effort to post in more vague terms, because that's really how gardening is anyway. A garden is far, far too complex to be able to make precise generalizations. It's not really possible to predict, unless you reproduce the original conditions in gory details. It's more like "This is what worked for me, your mileage may vary". Dolomite lime might be the elixir of life for my palms, it may kill yours. My kentias grow a leaf or two a month, yours may grow 5 or none at all. Some things are more predictable, such as me not being able to grow pritchardia pacifica or cocos nucifera outdoors in Northern California.

I hope this makes more sense. Gardening is more like poetry, it's more like a Zen koan, filled with endless contradictions. What's the sound of one hand clapping? If you can answer that, you'll get what I mean.

The collusion you see between me and others is more like prickles and goo running into each other. Watch this short video, and you'll get what I mean:

I am not afraid to be wrong or contradict myself, including the fact that I am still posting when I should be outa here. Over and out. Cheers, and y'all have a great 4th of July holiday.

Axel, you leave like a cowboy dies in one of those western comedies. Or maybe like Jim Cary died in "The Mask." And I say that with fondness and a little bit of mischief too. Admit it, you don't want to go, you just want to be understood. Don't we all. Keep dying brother, all the way till you come back.

[richnorm]

Time to delete these threads. Really, there is no place for this stuff on Palmtalk. Axel, I doubt you mean what you say but you are doing yourself no favours with these throwaway comments. Take a break and come back to stimulate sensible debate about palms.

[PALM MOD]

I think there is something to be learned in this topic - but we have strayed from "Discussing Palms." Perhaps we need a new forum - "Discussing Palm People."

So, I don't think deleting is in order, but I think it might be a good place to close this to further discussion.