Where did all the Brahea Claras come from?

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Don't answer, this is a rhetorical question, I cruised a few nurseries in the Fallbrook area, and saw massive brahea claras for sale everywhere, 24" to 36" boxes. Then I went home to Riverside and found yet a bunch more of these guys planted around town.

I knew about brahea clara, but I never realized how large the fans are on this palm, and they recurve a little like a sabal too. This has to be one of the most magnificent braheas around. I usually dismiss people's claims that brahea armata is a good replacement for a bismarck in those areas where bismarcks can't grow, simply because the fronds on an armata are just so small. But brahea claras really do serve as a decent substitute. I am working on splurging on a nice 24" box for our Santa Cruz Mountains garden so I still have a nice silver left over if my bismarck bet fails.

I am fascinated how a palm that I didn't know about much would spring to the foreground so suddenly.

This is a photo of a real blue one in Riverside, although I think this could be armata, but the fronds look more like clara with the deep middle division:

Adjusting the exposure a little makes it come out almost white on the screen:

Some of the specimens for sale at the various nurseries I went to:

These things are ginormous!

[DoomsDave]

Yes

oh yes

One of the best Brahs brah . . .

[Sutter Bob]

Their blue color is spectacular and they appear well suited to the Sacramento valley.

[Kris]

Beautiful !

But this palm does not tolerate my hot wet tropical climate,they simply rot when planted in the garden soil which is predominantly clayey.

Love,

kris Achar.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Beautiful !

But this palm does not tolerate my hot wet tropical climate,they simply rot when planted in the garden soil which is predominantly clayey.

Love,

kris Achar.

Well, it's very simple, you're meant to grow a bismarck.

[Eric in Orlando]

Brahea clara is also tolerant of humid conditions. I'm doing a series of talks at Disney's EPCOT for their Flower and Garden Festival and am showing underutilized palms for Florida. I have B. clara in it and mention it as a substiture for Bismarckia where it gets too cold for it

[sonoranfans]

first two pics look like brahea armata to me, third could be clara. Clara has longer petioles, thinner trunk when trunking. Armatas are generally more blue.

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

Man if I could find some of those I'd be spending some cash! My Bizzys look awful after all the frosts here this winter.

[sonoranfans]

Man if I could find some of those I'd be spending some cash! My Bizzys look awful after all the frosts here this winter.

I got mine from tejas tropicals. they are small seedlings, but in 2 years mine are full palmate and 3' tall.

http://www.tejastropicals.com/genus/brahea/brahea-clara-icy-blue-2.html

Edited April 22, 2013 by sonoranfans

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

Thanks for the tip, Tom!

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

first two pics look like brahea armata to me, third could be clara. Clara has longer petioles, thinner trunk when trunking. Armatas are generally more blue.

I think you may be right on the first two but the last one is definitely Clara.

[Phoenikakias]

Tom, your juvenile palm has not yet droopy segments. Is it a trait that appears with age? Is it true that B clara is an intended cross between brandegeii and armata with the objective to be achieved a Brahea with armata's silver colour and brandegeii's growth speed?

[sonoranfans]

Tom, your juvenile palm has not yet droopy segments. Is it a trait that appears with age? Is it true that B clara is an intended cross between brandegeii and armata with the objective to be achieved a Brahea with armata's silver colour and brandegeii's growth speed?

Konstantinos, I expect the weepiness will appear with age. I have had 6-7 armatas, and the petioles and trunk are notably thicker and shorter (petioles), by quite a bit. the leaflet tips on my young armatas were always rigid, moreso than this palm. This palm was more green as a received strap leaf and is now nicely bluish green. I dont know if its an intended cross or not, never heard that. Some suggest it is accidental armata x brandegeei. It is quite alot faster than brahea armata, which is really slow at a young age.

Edited April 22, 2013 by sonoranfans

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Tom, your juvenile palm has not yet droopy segments. Is it a trait that appears with age? Is it true that B clara is an intended cross between brandegeii and armata with the objective to be achieved a Brahea with armata's silver colour and brandegeii's growth speed?

Konstantinos, I expect the weepiness will appear with age. I have had 6-7 armatas, and the petioles and trunk are notably thicker and shorter (petioles), by quite a bit. the leaflet tips on my young armatas were always rigid, moreso than this palm. This palm was more green as a received strap leaf and is now nicely bluish green. I dont know if its an intended cross or not, never heard that. Some suggest it is accidental armata x brandegeei. It is quite alot faster than brahea armata, which is really slow at a young age.

The longer petioles is why I thought the one in the first two pictures I posted are actually clara as opposed to armata. Armata has shorter petioles and narrower, stiffer fronds. They over-prune these things so that the lower leaves with the most amount of hanging leaflets and middle division are gone.

Clara is definitely the winner over armata, seing bigger specimens in person show that the clara leaves are easily 2-3 times the size of an armata. Plus they droop and recurve like a sabal.

[sonoranfans]

Tom, your juvenile palm has not yet droopy segments. Is it a trait that appears with age? Is it true that B clara is an intended cross between brandegeii and armata with the objective to be achieved a Brahea with armata's silver colour and brandegeii's growth speed?

Konstantinos, I expect the weepiness will appear with age. I have had 6-7 armatas, and the petioles and trunk are notably thicker and shorter (petioles), by quite a bit. the leaflet tips on my young armatas were always rigid, moreso than this palm. This palm was more green as a received strap leaf and is now nicely bluish green. I dont know if its an intended cross or not, never heard that. Some suggest it is accidental armata x brandegeei. It is quite alot faster than brahea armata, which is really slow at a young age.

The longer petioles is why I thought the one in the first two pictures I posted are actually clara as opposed to armata. Armata has shorter petioles and narrower, stiffer fronds. They over-prune these things so that the lower leaves with the most amount of hanging leaflets and middle division are gone.

Clara is definitely the winner over armata, seing bigger specimens in person show that the clara leaves are easily 2-3 times the size of an armata. Plus they droop and recurve like a sabal.

Notice how the fronds of the third pic have petioles longer than the leaves, probably almost 2x(claral like). Armatas I have had looked just like the first two, about the same length +/- petiole as leaf. It is also true that armatas in part shade grow longer petioles, I have seen that in one of mine in part sun. those in full sun grew very compact and even more upright.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Tom, your juvenile palm has not yet droopy segments. Is it a trait that appears with age? Is it true that B clara is an intended cross between brandegeii and armata with the objective to be achieved a Brahea with armata's silver colour and brandegeii's growth speed?

Konstantinos, I expect the weepiness will appear with age. I have had 6-7 armatas, and the petioles and trunk are notably thicker and shorter (petioles), by quite a bit. the leaflet tips on my young armatas were always rigid, moreso than this palm. This palm was more green as a received strap leaf and is now nicely bluish green. I dont know if its an intended cross or not, never heard that. Some suggest it is accidental armata x brandegeei. It is quite alot faster than brahea armata, which is really slow at a young age.

The longer petioles is why I thought the one in the first two pictures I posted are actually clara as opposed to armata. Armata has shorter petioles and narrower, stiffer fronds. They over-prune these things so that the lower leaves with the most amount of hanging leaflets and middle division are gone.

Clara is definitely the winner over armata, seing bigger specimens in person show that the clara leaves are easily 2-3 times the size of an armata. Plus they droop and recurve like a sabal.

Notice how the fronds of the third pic have petioles longer than the leaves, probably almost 2x(claral like). Armatas I have had looked just like the first two, about the same length +/- petiole as leaf. It is also true that armatas in part shade grow longer petioles, I have seen that in one of mine in part sun. those in full sun grew very compact and even more upright.

Makes sense.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

As an FYI, anyone interested on a good deal on brahea clara should contact Palm Valley Ranch at http://www.palmvalleyranch.com/. They have some of the best prices. They're in Fallbrook on Old 395 just where I-15 and 76 meet. It's truly the best deal in town on these guys.

[monkeyranch]

On the true B. 'clara' s I've seen the petioles have none of the fuzzy, brown tomentum that is on the armatas. Also the leaflets are longer, thinner, and segmented deeper into the leaf. The petiole teeth also seem reduced and further spaced apart which along with the humidity tolerance suggests the brandegeei influence. I think some nurseries will label any extra-blue, droopy segmented, long-petioled B. armata as B. clara without attention to the details which define a true 'clara' or to the purity of their seed source. The native population of clara in Mexico has consistent traits such as the lack of tomentum. If 'clara' is a natural hybrid of armata and brandegeei as theorized then it obviously has the propensity for hybridizing. Any SoCal 'clara' seed harvested in the company of armata could be hybridized, diluting the true clara traits.

Here's the fuzz-free petiole detail from a photo on palmpedia.net:

and petiole detail on armata with the tomentum particularly visible between the teeth. The difference is more pronounced as plants age.

here is B. brandegeei with almost no tomentum or teeth:

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

On the true B. 'clara' s I've seen the petioles have none of the fuzzy, brown tomentum that is on the armatas. Also the leaflets are longer, thinner, and segmented deeper into the leaf. The petiole teeth also seem reduced and further spaced apart which along with the humidity tolerance suggests the brandegeei influence. I think some nurseries will label any extra-blue, droopy segmented, long-petioled B. armata as B. clara without attention to the details which define a true 'clara' or to the purity of their seed source. The native population of clara in Mexico has consistent traits such as the lack of tomentum. If 'clara' is a natural hybrid of armata and brandegeei as theorized then it obviously has the propensity for hybridizing. Any SoCal 'clara' seed harvested in the company of armata could be hybridized, diluting the true clara traits.

Here's the fuzz-free petiole detail from a photo on palmpedia.net:

and petiole detail on armata with the tomentum particularly visible between the teeth. The difference is more pronounced as plants age.

here is B. brandegeei with almost no tomentum or teeth:

Thanks, that helps a great deal. The first one in the pictures above is then a definite armata, because the teeth on the petioles did have the fuzz. The third picture is clara, the fuzz was absent.

[monkeyranch]

Another thread with great comparison photos. His first clara has especially smooth petioles. The third one which he comments as having stiffer leaves like armata has a little more fuzz than the first two. B. clara X B. armata ??? There's always a mystery to how hybrid events multiply out over a several generations of domesticated ornamental cultivation?

Another thread on this question. And a really nice one in the East Bay.

[Kris]

Beautiful !

But this palm does not tolerate my hot wet tropical climate,they simply rot when planted in the garden soil which is predominantly clayey.

Love,

kris Achar.

Well, it's very simple, you're meant to grow a bismarck.

Well Said

And yes that is what i have done.

Love,

kris.

[Raffinator]

Beautiful palm. Just found out that they sell them at my local palm broker.

For you experts out there, how would a Brahea Clara do in coastal San Francisco? I'm big fan of fan palms (forgive the pun).

I'm less than 1/2 mile from the pacific, so I get that consistent ocean breeze and marine layer.

Thanks.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Beautiful palm. Just found out that they sell them at my local palm broker.

For you experts out there, how would a Brahea Clara do in coastal San Francisco? I'm big fan of fan palms (forgive the pun).

I'm less than 1/2 mile from the pacific, so I get that consistent ocean breeze and marine layer.

Thanks.

Brahea clara is most definitely a great palm for San Francisco, it's a better choice than brahea armata. It will grow fine for you.

[Raffinator]

Thanks Axel!

I'm super interested in putting one the backyard. I have two Brahea Edulis that it would look great next to.

I'm always a bit cautious about palms that are recommended for SF, simply because there seems to be so many little microclimates. For example, I'm in an area (outer richmond district) that tends to be overcast, foggy, and not too cold and not too warm, one of those marine temperate climates that always seems to be around 60-65 degrees or so. But if you lived out in the Potrero Hill district, you usually get more sun and the temperature is probably 10 degrees warmer.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Thanks Axel!

I'm super interested in putting one the backyard. I have two Brahea Edulis that it would look great next to.

I'm always a bit cautious about palms that are recommended for SF, simply because there seems to be so many little microclimates. For example, I'm in an area (outer richmond district) that tends to be overcast, foggy, and not too cold and not too warm, one of those marine temperate climates that always seems to be around 60-65 degrees or so. But if you lived out in the Potrero Hill district, you usually get more sun and the temperature is probably 10 degrees warmer.

Brahea clara is a safe bet across pretty much all Central and Northern California sea level up about 2,000 feet locations, from the desert all the way to the coldest Humboldt County Summer fog pit. Because this is a hybrid, you have to actually select the plant yourself. There's a lot of variation in both leaf form and color, from a beautiful icy blue to a less attractive olive color. To make matters more difficult, brahea clara hates to live in pots, so it doesn't actually look good at nurseries until it's living in a 30 inch box.

[JasonD]

Where did this hybrid idea come from? The Brahea "Clara" in California cultivation comes from a consistent population in Sonora, where it grows by the thousands. As far as I know it's not a random scattering of intermediate individuals in an area of sympatric B. armata and B. brandeegei (or, B. aculeata).

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Where did this hybrid idea come from? The Brahea "Clara" in California cultivation comes from a consistent population in Sonora, where it grows by the thousands. As far as I know it's not a random scattering of intermediate individuals in an area of sympatric B. armata and B. brandeegei (or, B. aculeata).

Good question, I was going by what PalmPedia was saying, I guess I am just being a lemming and repeating whatever I am hearing. I don't really care either way, but there is definitely some variation in the forms. Jason, the specimens at East West definitely varied in color and leaf size. I carefully picked mine. Here's a close up of the petioles:

and the leaves:

[Phoenikakias]

As far as I can see from the pics not a trace of fur on the petioles.

[NCpalmqueen]

Great thread! I purchased my clara in Calif 5 yrs ago. It is doing just fine here in NC. Very pretty blue.

Has anyone transplanted one? I have to move mine. I recently moved a nice brahea decumbens and it never blinked. I am hoping to have the same luck with clara.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Great thread! I purchased my clara in Calif 5 yrs ago. It is doing just fine here in NC. Very pretty blue.

Has anyone transplanted one? I have to move mine. I recently moved a nice brahea decumbens and it never blinked. I am hoping to have the same luck with clara.

I am curious, do you protect your b. clara? It would be great to have some hardiness data for this palm.

[NCpalmqueen]

I am very surprised by the palm's hardiness. It has been through 5 winters in NC. I throw a tarp over it to keep it dry.

I will get some photos this weekend. I am in a zone 7b/8a.

[Axel Amsterdam]

This brahea grows near London UK. The climate is different for sure from coastal Cali so perhaps growth is different too. However, it doesnt look like any other armata i have seen in Northern Europe. Clara?

Edited May 2, 2013 by Axel Amsterdam

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

That's a nice looking brahea. I don't see any fuzz on the petioles, but I also don't see white colored teeth on the petioles. Also, the fronds are more stiff. It could be a clara but that has more armata in it.

[edbrown_III]

I bought this onein 1988 from a Henry Miller in Az it was labeled as B armata and thats what I thought it was until a fellow pointed out it was B clara --- it has a bout 2 foot of trunk after so many years caespitose creeping but still beautiful here in Jax Fl I planted it in 1989 the big freeze came and I thought I had lost it ( the crown collapsed) but it came back and was never subjected to that type of cold again.

Best regards

Ed Brown

[sonoranfans]

I bought this onein 1988 from a Henry Miller in Az it was labeled as B armata and thats what I thought it was until a fellow pointed out it was B clara --- it has a bout 2 foot of trunk after so many years caespitose creeping but still beautiful here in Jax Fl I planted it in 1989 the big freeze came and I thought I had lost it ( the crown collapsed) but it came back and was never subjected to that type of cold again.

Best regards

Ed Brown

Wow Ed, great background story and a beautiful palm! Love the really fine weepy leaflet tips and blue color! Edited May 3, 2013 by sonoranfans

[edbrown_III]

much obliged for the kind words --- I have to much canopy to grow the r eally blue stuff --- I have this one litttle corner of the yard for the blue palms. I salute the west coasters who have the intense sun for the great color. Best regards Ed

[Phoenikakias]

Ed, you have an amazing silver saw palmetto!

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

bump! Since we're talking about brahea clara.

[Mandrew968]

I wish I had one or two--for such a silver palm, it should be more widely planted. There are quite a few Brahea species that fair well in South Florida--my nitida is doing fine. Brandegeei and decumbens doing great, down the road a piece...

[NorCalWill]

That is a beauty from East West Axel...nice and silvery.

Mine was sold to me as Brahea armata, and at the time I didn't know anything about Clara and the weepy leaves. It wasn't until I got it home and planted it and started comparing it to armatas pics online that I noticed that mine was different, and was instead a Clara.

As for hardiness, I have it planted on the south of my house and even with the cold temps we get here around December, not to mention winter rain, it doesn't stop growing. This past December (2013) of course we had that big freeze with temps below freezing every night for 2 weeks. The lowest my thermometer recorded was 23 F on 2 of those nights. There was no damage at all to Clara, and the marking I put on the newest spear kept moving up.