Southern California Palmageddon

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

So the red palm weevil has been discovered in Laguna Beach in 2010 and the South American Palm Weevil has been discovered in Tijuana. Does this mean growing palms is going to become more and more difficult? Are palm Society members and nurseries taking all the steps to prevent these pests from spreading? And what are the right steps to take?

http://cisr.ucr.edu/blog/invasive-species/palmaggedon-are-california%E2%80%99s-palms-about-to-face-the-perfect-storm/

[Mandrew968]

Axel, it sounds pretty scary to me. But what can really be done about it?

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Actually we can do quite a bit by keeping personal and Palm Society gardens clean via inspection and preventing the spread of these pests by making sure that larger palms moving around the state get inspected by Ag offices and are properly sprayed.

The palm society can also take a more proactive role in public education. This is something the Palm Society should be involved with.

For example, I am having my large palm shipment inspected by our local Ag office.

[MattyB]

In my opinion, if their range is expanding, there's nothing we can do. Nature is much bigger than what we can control.

[Gonzer]

Like trying to stir coffee with a fork.

[Phoenikakias]

I agree with Axel's suggestions with some remarks. How should palms be inspected? Only viually is not sufficient, because a palm may be already infected before symptoms become apparent. Only acoustic detection is more safe, so authorities must have the proper equipment. Properly spraying is also advisable but two applications are needed with a two weeks interval. So a quarantine period is also necessary.

Edited March 15, 2013 by Phoenikakias

[gyuseppe]

in a private garden which is located in Palermo Sicily,

the red weevil ,besides Phoenix canariensis his favorite, destroyed these palms:

Brahea armata

Brahea edulis

Livistona mariae

Pritchardia remota

Parajubaea cocoides

[paulgila]

In my opinion, if their range is expanding, there's nothing we can do. Nature is much bigger than what we can control.

thats a strange attitude. what would life be like today if medical researchers had felt like this about human diseases?

[Phoenikakias]

The best defence however is the offensive, that is to make a plan of a complete erradication of the pest beyond the borders. First you have to secure an area from north southwards, where it is almost certain that the rpw has not gone so far. Then you start pushing it back behind the borders. For this purpose it is necessarry evil the regular spraying of all palms for a period of two years.

Edited March 15, 2013 by Phoenikakias

[Phoenikakias]

in a private garden which is located in Palermo Sicily,

the red weevil ,besides Phoenix canariensis his favorite, destroyed these palms:

Brahea armata

Brahea edulis

Livistona mariae

Pritchardia remota

Parajubaea cocoides

Giuseppe, you forgot to mention also Bismarckia in Palermo!

[Gonzer]

In my opinion, if their range is expanding, there's nothing we can do. Nature is much bigger than what we can control.

thats a strange attitude. what would life be like today if medical researchers had felt like this about human diseases?

Nice analogy Paul but Ma Nature is MUCH bigger than humankind.

[DoomsDave]

Not good.

We got lucky in 2010.

Recall that one of our Palm Talkers a while back had warned about the South American Palm Weevil in TJ.

Sigh

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

In my opinion, if their range is expanding, there's nothing we can do. Nature is much bigger than what we can control.

thats a strange attitude. what would life be like today if medical researchers had felt like this about human diseases?

Nice analogy Paul but Ma Nature is MUCH bigger than humankind.

Those philosophical arguments don't really change much about the reality of what we are facing, and also the reality of what in fact can be done about it. Saying ma Nature is too big for us to do anything is like throwing the baby out with the bath water. We should do what we can. California Ag takes strong measures to protect our State's agriculture. There is currently a palm quarantine in place for the date producing areas of Southern California to protect the date industry. Palms aren't allowed in without blue labels. Cal. Ag doesn't care about palms elsewhere because they're not food crops outside of the California data zone, so it's up to people to self regulate to prevent this thing from spreading.

Citrus greening arrived in Southern California, and the answer is a strong quarantine.

[DoomsDave]

Every species has its Achilles' Heel. The RPW and SAPW have theirs, likely in the form of some form of parasite. We need to find it, see if it will survive here, and introduce it. Usually parasites are very host-specific, so there's relatively little danger of them affecting, say, honeybees.

[Walter John]

Here's a couple of sites on weevil control from across the globe, they both point to nursery responsibility and some measures to take at home gardens. If you love your palm trees, I'd consider trying something, better than nothing, isn't it ?

http://www.ngia.com.au/files/nurserypapers/NP_1997_11.pdf

http://www.redpalmweevil.com/control.htm

[LJG]

In my opinion, if their range is expanding, there's nothing we can do. Nature is much bigger than what we can control.

thats a strange attitude. what would life be like today if medical researchers had felt like this about human diseases?

Nice analogy Paul but Ma Nature is MUCH bigger than humankind.

Those philosophical arguments don't really change much about the reality of what we are facing, and also the reality of what in fact can be done about it. Saying ma Nature is too big for us to do anything is like throwing the baby out with the bath water. We should do what we can. California Ag takes strong measures to protect our State's agriculture. There is currently a palm quarantine in place for the date producing areas of Southern California to protect the date industry. Palms aren't allowed in without blue labels. Cal. Ag doesn't care about palms elsewhere because they're not food crops outside of the California data zone, so it's up to people to self regulate to prevent this thing from spreading.

Citrus greening arrived in Southern California, and the answer is a strong quarantine.

One thing that annoys me are the controls north and east are strict and have inspections yet those south are basically free. Soft border with Mexico allows tons of crap in including bugs that Ag found out later came from cut flowers imported by the thousands from Mexico to be sold on street corners.

[pogobob]

Len...what border? Comprende!

[MattyB]

How are they going to treat the tens of thousands of wild growing palms, some of which are 100 feet tall. Southern California is too massive and there's not enough money.

[Phoenikakias]

At least you can profit from european bitter experience and knowledge. You can set up a trap network like in Israel. Additionally since it is very well known that rpw is preferebly attracted through male inflorescences of Phoenix spss you can booby trap only every male specimen of the genus Phoenix by using systemic pesticides and not other chemicals, which with their smell drive rpw away.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Washingtonia are immune to the weevil.

[MattyB]

Not from what I remember

[gyuseppe]

Washingtonia are immune to the weevil.

Axel in Sicily some were affected, the advantage is that not all

[Phoenikakias]

Out of 17 large Washies only one got infected. If however you have side by side a juvenile CIDP and a large Washi the rpw will prefer CIDP. Anyway after I have started regular spraying I have had no direct casualty from the bug, only two or three indirect casualties through the spraying and those were marginal plants (Ravenea madagascariensis, Dypsis decary). Big problem remains that if neighbours (and community for public plants) don't spray also and remove dead plants without any precaution measures (saturating of of dead palms prime to removal with chemicals, use of nets), so that rpw individuals not escape and infect other palms, problem will for ever appear repeatedly and every single grower will have for ever to spray own palms for protection. That's why a complete erradication program is so important.

[bubba]

Axel and All, I think much can be learned from other "palm pandemics" and their course, research and treatment. Lethal Yellowing in Florida is a similar example. As you know, this destroyed millions of coconut palms in Florida and throughout the Carribean. Initially identified in the Carribean in the 1930's, it travelled to Florida, first hitting the Keys in the 1940's. By the 1970's, it reached Palm Beach County and sadly created a slow motion train wreck that was exceedingly sad to watch if you were palm addicted. Even palm non-observants observed in rare recognition.

Different varieties less susceptible were planted but the cause (that nasty little insect) and it's treatment were discovered. Today in Palm Beach, thousands of supposedly extinct close to 100 foot "Jamaican Talls" continue to flourish because of an aggressive community effort to innoculate these palms with antibiotics. Admittedily expensive, it still demonstrates that coordinated effort between concerned citizens,affiliated agencies and Institutions of Higher Learning (UF isolated the culprit and created the treatment regime) lend room for optimism.

That stated, there is truth in the observation that this thing is bigger than us and get over it. However, it does not mean all is lost and pending doom is a certainty. South Florida adapted and I can guarantee you that our landscape continues to exude the tropics here at 26 L. The same will be true in California notwithstanding the initial over the top fear of "nuclear oblivion" and new techniques and varieties will be developed. Trust me, all is not lost and much will be gained.

[Brian Bruning]

Mod Edit: I was instructed to remove the post that appeared here previously as it named a corporate group of brothers by name. The IPS does not wish to have the names of individuals mentioned in accusatory tones.

[Stevetoad]

not that im Proweevil but this does seem a bit ironic to me. NON native insects attacking NON native palms. Kinda like opening an Italian resturant and trying to keep Italians from eating there. i need an emocon for when i blow my own mind!

[MattyB]

Lol

[Phoenikakias]

Brian you have described current situation quite vividly ! I agree with you, entirely free world trade hides many sideeffects, this is the core of many problems. I make myself clear, I do not speak of returning back to protectionism, moreover I mean a rationalization of global trade taking in to account enviromental and health issues, preservation of different social and political systems and at the very end preservation of self determination ability of every nation and consequently of real democracy. Just an example: to weep over the destruction of remaing rainforest but silmutanuously letting entirely free trade of timber and agricultural products from those areas is at least contradictional (if not hypocritical)!

[Shirleypalmpaws]

LOL Stevetoad

[Gonzer]

not that im Proweevil but this does seem a bit ironic to me. NON native insects attacking NON native palms. Kinda like opening an Italian resturant and trying to keep Italians from eating there. i need an emocon for when i blow my own mind!

Analogy of the year candidate. Steve, who writes your stuff, Letterman?

[smotrs]

Interesting read. But is there any thing we can do at our homes or gardens? What type of sprays or insecticides are safe for our palms but will prevent the weevil from coming around?

[grant b.]

not that im Proweevil but this does seem a bit ironic to me. NON native insects attacking NON native palms. Kinda like opening an Italian resturant and trying to keep Italians from eating there. i need an emocon for when i blow my own mind!

Analogy of the year candidate. Steve, who writes your stuff, Letterman?

awesome. nominated.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

not that im Proweevil but this does seem a bit ironic to me. NON native insects attacking NON native palms. Kinda like opening an Italian resturant and trying to keep Italians from eating there. i need an emocon for when i blow my own mind!

You may want to relay this to the citrus ag people who are fighting Huanglong, or citrus greening disease, which has to potential to wipe out the citrus industry in California. In this case, it's like opening a chinese restaurant and trying to keep the Chinese from ransacking the place.

Seriously, though, the pest issue is pretty serious and I do not want to end up wearing a suit like Konstantinos and having to spray my palms. A little protectionism goes a long way. We can make a difference.

[DoomsDave]

not that im Proweevil but this does seem a bit ironic to me. NON native insects attacking NON native palms. Kinda like opening an Italian resturant and trying to keep Italians from eating there. i need an emocon for when i blow my own mind!

Well, not really.

RPW comes from South Asia, while a lot of their favored palms to infest come from elsewhere, like CIDPs, edible dates, etc.

Hmm. More like opening an Italian eatery and trying to keep out the Chinese, or Brazilians, who find they love cucina Italia. Or however you say that . . . .

That said, I'm with Axel: protectionism is worth the trouble. The RPWs got to Laguna Beach somehow, likely from SE Asia.

[stygiana]

not that im Proweevil but this does seem a bit ironic to me. NON native insects attacking NON native palms. Kinda like opening an Italian resturant and trying to keep Italians from eating there. i need an emocon for when i blow my own mind!

Well, not really.

RPW comes from South Asia, while a lot of their favored palms to infest come from elsewhere, like CIDPs, edible dates, etc.

Hmm. More like opening an Italian eatery and trying to keep out the Chinese, or Brazilians, who find they love cucina Italia. Or however you say that . . . .

That said, I'm with Axel: protectionism is worth the trouble. The RPWs got to Laguna Beach somehow, likely from SE Asia.

Well, that's what surprises me: How such an infamous and well documented bug arrived in California?!? Was it in Mexico before?

[DoomsDave]

not that im Proweevil but this does seem a bit ironic to me. NON native insects attacking NON native palms. Kinda like opening an Italian resturant and trying to keep Italians from eating there. i need an emocon for when i blow my own mind!

Well, not really.

RPW comes from South Asia, while a lot of their favored palms to infest come from elsewhere, like CIDPs, edible dates, etc.

Hmm. More like opening an Italian eatery and trying to keep out the Chinese, or Brazilians, who find they love cucina Italia. Or however you say that . . . .

That said, I'm with Axel: protectionism is worth the trouble. The RPWs got to Laguna Beach somehow, likely from SE Asia.

Well, that's what surprises me: How such an infamous and well documented bug arrived in California?!? Was it in Mexico before?

Your question is mine, amigo.

If I knew they were coming, I'd be waiting for them in my Canary Hazmat Suit of Doom.

[Shirleypalmpaws]

Man. It seems some bird, lizard, mouse or some other wild critter would go for the RPW, kinda like some natives would the "cucina Italia" ?

[Cedric]

Oh this is devastating. I've seen the damage these things can do to palms in SEAsia. Some gardens were completely wiped out of things like Bismarkia nobilis.<br /><br />On the bright side they tend to do a massif amount of damage initially then this tapers off and they disappear. Aggressive control programmes do not seem to halt the massif and lethal initial damage.<br /><br />Im not sure why but areas affected that I've seen, gardens not palm plantations seem to be left alone after a few years, no palms left suitable ): or some kind of migration or natural predator like nematodes take time to spread? Maybe the rotting smell sends a signal that there is population densities that are too high or something so they fly off looking for a better crop of palm territory far away.

[bubba]

BB/#25/ Whatever credibility you had was totally lost in your litany of false statements made in your third paragraph. Absolute fallacious mischaracterizations regarding the truth on all levels. If the rest of your content is extrapolated in this manner, you cannot be taken seriously. Beyond that, character assassination of this sort should not be accepted, as at a minimum it defies appropriate etiquette of this forum. Political diatribes of this nature should not be allowed and should be stricken void ab initio by Forum Monitors.

[Phoenikakias]

not that im Proweevil but this does seem a bit ironic to me. NON native insects attacking NON native palms. Kinda like opening an Italian resturant and trying to keep Italians from eating there. i need an emocon for when i blow my own mind!

Well, not really.

RPW comes from South Asia, while a lot of their favored palms to infest come from elsewhere, like CIDPs, edible dates, etc.

Hmm. More like opening an Italian eatery and trying to keep out the Chinese, or Brazilians, who find they love cucina Italia. Or however you say that . . . .

That said, I'm with Axel: protectionism is worth the trouble. The RPWs got to Laguna Beach somehow, likely from SE Asia.

Well, that's what surprises me: How such an infamous and well documented bug arrived in California?!? Was it in Mexico before?

Beware of trojan horses, all imported palms beyond a certain size (and also of the pot soil for cocoons). IMHO a 5 gal palm is already a suspect.

Edited June 28, 2013 by Phoenikakias