I am puzzled by the fact that there are almost no Bizmark palms planted in public plantings throughout California, even in areas where they would not even get frosted. In Central Florida where they fry all the time, they are common. Yet here there are few to none. So far, I've seen 3 of them on Balboa Island in Newport, but that's about it. And I've been into palms for many years, so I would have noticed them by now if they were around.

After seing a healthy bizzie in Grover Beach 3 blocks from the ocean where there clearly isn't much Summer heat, this palm can obviously do well in the warmer coastal thermal belts where there is little frost, and certainly would grow in many other locales. Granted it probably wouldn't grow in the Sunset district of San Francisco where overcast and 55F temps rule during the Summer, but pretty much elsewhere where there is some Summer heat and infrequent Winter hard freezes, it should do well.

This palm is from the dry highlands of Madagascar, and the blue version can take 22F once established. Queens can barely handle that and they are common. It can obviously tolerate the average California Winter. So why is this palm so rare in California?

I have also seen some purple specimens, do they turn purple in the cold or is this another strain?

They have become VERY cheap in FL, maybe thats why? FL has vast amounts of land that had been converted from food to landscape plants during the housing boom, Now we have so many palms they are ridiculously cheap. Royals with 10ft wood you can get for less then $100.

Bizzies really like heat, and much of coastal California isn't really hot enough for them to be happy, unlike much of Florida, which, while it can get cold, has high heat to help the plants get over it.

I haven't found them to be the easy grow they are often made out to be. Bizzies can get fussy sometimes and croak.

Also, I think there's a lack of imagination among public planters here.

I'd give one a try if I had more space. I heard that there was one growing out in the country near Bakersfield, got zapped yearly but kept on growing.

Jeff

There are a couple of nice ones in Balboa Park in San Diego, but I agree, few and far between.

I see a bunch here in east county. They're about 8 down from my shop. One is a beast. In n out in santee just planted 6 along with caryota gigas.

they are very fast in florida due to heat, perhaps making them more desirable public planting material. And they are pretty cheap, about $40 for a 7 gallon juvenile. they grow so fast it doesnt make sense to plant a big one, give that 5 gallon it 3-4 years it will be a big one. they also look better grown in central florida vs south florida as they like sandy soils. Mine laughed at the 28F hard frosts x2 consecutive days in Dec 10 that burned my beccariophoenix alfredii to the ground(see freeze section). As far as landscaping, I do agree that california doesnt have imaginaive landscaping in many areas. Near my 10a zone apartment in Laguna Niguel I have phoenix dactyliferas mixed in with queens. The queens are undernourished and the dactyliferas are drowned(yellow partly opened fronds). Just because they planted it doesnt mean they should. there should be more brahea armatas here, not that many of them either...

Edited March 7, 201313 yr by sonoranfans

It IS weird. The only ones I know near me in San Luis Obispo are at the Cal Poly Arboretum and (probably) the one mentioned by worldsight at a So Cal Palm Society member's house in Grover Beach. I think the latter is pretty good evdence that they can grow in cool spots like SF, at least a bit inland -- Grover Beach is very foggy, breezy, and cool during the "warm" season, with average highs breaking 70 only in September. I have also seen them thriving near Phil Nickel's house in the San Joaquin valley, where he gave them to all his extended family. So it also strikes me as weird that this palm seems mostly limited to places like LA's westside and public plantings in San Diego. Or maybe I need to get out more....

Mine's doing great here in the Bay Area. It's got a foot of solid bare wood trunk and it's over twelve feet tall overall. It's been in its partial shaded area in my front yard for six years from a 15 gallon container. I've also designed Bismarcks into a couple of my Los Altos Hills projects and they're all doing well except for one that got zapped by a gopher.

^{mine is growing like a weed out here}

Edited March 7, 201313 yr by trioderob

Mine's doing great here in the Bay Area. It's got a foot of solid bare wood trunk and it's over twelve feet tall overall. It's been in its partial shaded area in my front yard for six years from a 15 gallon container. I've also designed Bismarcks into a couple of my Los Altos Hills projects and they're all doing well except for one that got zapped by a gopher.

Jim, pictures please!

I really think it's a mis-conception within the general nursery trade not to work with this plant. This palm should be planted more widely. If I were to take a guess, they should grow decently wherever jacarandas grow and bloom. So Sunset zones 13-16, and 18-24, and with frost damage in some of the hotter yet frostier places.

I am going to take the plunge and get a bigger specimen. I have a climate similar to Los Altos Hills, maybe a little cooler, but still pretty warm compared to the immediate coast. If it can grow in Los Altos Hills and San Luis Obispo, it's proof to me it's well adapted to Sunset zones 15 and 16, perhaps marginally slow in zone 17. The one in Grover beach wasn't very big, still in the purple stage, which is not surprising. My place has already broken the 80F mark several times since Jan 1st. If it can take our cool nights, it should be doable here during the Summer.

You should try one. Mine saw 26f this year and many 32-30s. I have 3 all are growing great with the exception of my big one that I dug and moved. It's been unhappy since I dug and moved it. Still grows but the leaf color is yellowy. I have high hopes that this summer wil get it back on track.

Concerning to purple leaves, sometimes it is usually seen on smaller or juvenile plants. It appears that this is a result of exposure to cold. The purple color is typically seen with the blue variety and may disappear with age and size. Mine is showing the same, bought it already like that. I hope the next couple of years the blue will show up.

Check out the one I planted a few years back at the corner of Roosevelt and CVD in Carlsbad. He's a very happy camper.

Mine's doing great here in the Bay Area. It's got a foot of solid bare wood trunk and it's over twelve feet tall overall. It's been in its partial shaded area in my front yard for six years from a 15 gallon container. I've also designed Bismarcks into a couple of my Los Altos Hills projects and they're all doing well except for one that got zapped by a gopher.

Jim, pictures please!

I really think it's a mis-conception within the general nursery trade not to work with this plant. This palm should be planted more widely. If I were to take a guess, they should grow decently wherever jacarandas grow and bloom. So Sunset zones 13-16, and 18-24, and with frost damage in some of the hotter yet frostier places.

I am going to take the plunge and get a bigger specimen. I have a climate similar to Los Altos Hills, maybe a little cooler, but still pretty warm compared to the immediate coast. If it can grow in Los Altos Hills and San Luis Obispo, it's proof to me it's well adapted to Sunset zones 15 and 16, perhaps marginally slow in zone 17. The one in Grover beach wasn't very big, still in the purple stage, which is not surprising. My place has already broken the 80F mark several times since Jan 1st. If it can take our cool nights, it should be doable here during the Summer.

About six years ago, several big box stores had Bismarkia in 7g and 10g containers. I got one and planted it in a large container in Saratoga. The 07 freeze took it out. Luen also had a crop in the last few years, but it did not seem to move. I think our winter rain and sticky clay are more limiting than the lack of heat for Bismarkia, so Jim's arrangement of planting under an evergreen canopy would greatly help by limiting the amount of rain around the base.

A good blue Sabal uresana or Brahea armata are very acceptable replacements IMO.

Mine's doing great here in the Bay Area. It's got a foot of solid bare wood trunk and it's over twelve feet tall overall. It's been in its partial shaded area in my front yard for six years from a 15 gallon container. I've also designed Bismarcks into a couple of my Los Altos Hills projects and they're all doing well except for one that got zapped by a gopher.

Jim, pictures please!

I really think it's a mis-conception within the general nursery trade not to work with this plant. This palm should be planted more widely. If I were to take a guess, they should grow decently wherever jacarandas grow and bloom. So Sunset zones 13-16, and 18-24, and with frost damage in some of the hotter yet frostier places.

I am going to take the plunge and get a bigger specimen. I have a climate similar to Los Altos Hills, maybe a little cooler, but still pretty warm compared to the immediate coast. If it can grow in Los Altos Hills and San Luis Obispo, it's proof to me it's well adapted to Sunset zones 15 and 16, perhaps marginally slow in zone 17. The one in Grover beach wasn't very big, still in the purple stage, which is not surprising. My place has already broken the 80F mark several times since Jan 1st. If it can take our cool nights, it should be doable here during the Summer.

About six years ago, several big box stores had Bismarkia in 7g and 10g containers. I got one and planted it in a large container in Saratoga. The 07 freeze took it out. Luen also had a crop in the last few years, but it did not seem to move. I think our winter rain and sticky clay are more limiting than the lack of heat for Bismarkia, so Jim's arrangement of planting under an evergreen canopy would greatly help by limiting the amount of rain around the base.

A good blue Sabal uresana or Brahea armata are very acceptable replacements IMO.

Daxin, Saratoga is a frost pit on par with Gilroy. I think bizzies are not viable in the frostier areas in Norcal. But I agree the sabals are an excellent substitute.

Juveniles have the purple/maroon coloring. The more coloring it has the more intese silver blue it will be as an adult, Green forms are green from the start. That is how growers select the most silver forms.

There are two quite blue palms in front of a strip mall along the east-bound side of I-80 in Vallejo. You can see them as you drive past on I-80. They are not impressive, but they have been there for years. Maybe they are Brahea armata, but I thought the leaf shape looked Bizzie.

Mine's doing great here in the Bay Area. It's got a foot of solid bare wood trunk and it's over twelve feet tall overall. It's been in its partial shaded area in my front yard for six years from a 15 gallon container. I've also designed Bismarcks into a couple of my Los Altos Hills projects and they're all doing well except for one that got zapped by a gopher.

Jim, pictures please!

I really think it's a mis-conception within the general nursery trade not to work with this plant. This palm should be planted more widely. If I were to take a guess, they should grow decently wherever jacarandas grow and bloom. So Sunset zones 13-16, and 18-24, and with frost damage in some of the hotter yet frostier places.

I am going to take the plunge and get a bigger specimen. I have a climate similar to Los Altos Hills, maybe a little cooler, but still pretty warm compared to the immediate coast. If it can grow in Los Altos Hills and San Luis Obispo, it's proof to me it's well adapted to Sunset zones 15 and 16, perhaps marginally slow in zone 17. The one in Grover beach wasn't very big, still in the purple stage, which is not surprising. My place has already broken the 80F mark several times since Jan 1st. If it can take our cool nights, it should be doable here during the Summer.

About six years ago, several big box stores had Bismarkia in 7g and 10g containers. I got one and planted it in a large container in Saratoga. The 07 freeze took it out. Luen also had a crop in the last few years, but it did not seem to move. I think our winter rain and sticky clay are more limiting than the lack of heat for Bismarkia, so Jim's arrangement of planting under an evergreen canopy would greatly help by limiting the amount of rain around the base.

A good blue Sabal uresana or Brahea armata are very acceptable replacements IMO.

"sticky clay" hmm, drill with an auger as many holes as you can around the palm under the canopy and fill them with gravel. Let's see what happens ;-)

The Vallejo palms are Brahea armata.

One location I wish had Bismarkia is the performing arts building in downtown Phoenix, Arizona. When I visited several years ago there were two struggling, and pathetic Syagrus romanzoffianum palms flanking the entrance.

The Vallejo palms are Brahea armata.

One location I wish had Bismarkia is the performing arts building in downtown Phoenix, Arizona. When I visited several years ago there were two struggling, and pathetic Syagrus romanzoffianum palms flanking the entrance.

Phoenix is very hot and dry(110F/10%RH) for months at a time in late spring early summer and gets 8" of rain almost all after early july through mid september. there are few palms that can take this weather and no rain when the drip irrigation lines fail, and they often do(they get cooked, clogged with the hard water). Bizzies grow well in private owners yards there, but my experience with public places there is that when the irrigation line fails, it might not get fixed for years if ever... In that environment, washingtonia filifera and phoenix dactylifera are the best low maintenance bets. I really dont understand the use of queens in public places in phoenix, not at all... Queens that are mistreated and tall heavily trimmed "stickpole" washie robustas are probably the two biggest reasons that many homeowners there dont want any palms at all. And Bismarckias are not well known at all. I had a landscape designer ask me if my bismarckias were brahea armata. And when I told him what they were, he said "never heard of it". this was about 8 years ago.

Check out the one I planted a few years back at the corner of Roosevelt and CVD in Carlsbad. He's a very happy camper.

Cool to know you planted that one. I see it all the time on my way in and out of Pizza Port. Wife gets tired of me staring at it and making comments about how I can't wait for "mine to look like that"!

Where did you hear that they fry in Central Florida all the time? I planted my first one in 2000 and 2 more a couple years later, and they have not shown damage from frost or the cold. Maybe you are thinking of the green form that do fry here in Central Florida.

Edited March 7, 201313 yr by Tampa Scott

Tom, thanks for the Phoenix info.

Mine's doing great here in the Bay Area. It's got a foot of solid bare wood trunk and it's over twelve feet tall overall. It's been in its partial shaded area in my front yard for six years from a 15 gallon container. I've also designed Bismarcks into a couple of my Los Altos Hills projects and they're all doing well except for one that got zapped by a gopher.

Jim, pictures please!

I really think it's a mis-conception within the general nursery trade not to work with this plant. This palm should be planted more widely. If I were to take a guess, they should grow decently wherever jacarandas grow and bloom. So Sunset zones 13-16, and 18-24, and with frost damage in some of the hotter yet frostier places.

I am going to take the plunge and get a bigger specimen. I have a climate similar to Los Altos Hills, maybe a little cooler, but still pretty warm compared to the immediate coast. If it can grow in Los Altos Hills and San Luis Obispo, it's proof to me it's well adapted to Sunset zones 15 and 16, perhaps marginally slow in zone 17. The one in Grover beach wasn't very big, still in the purple stage, which is not surprising. My place has already broken the 80F mark several times since Jan 1st. If it can take our cool nights, it should be doable here during the Summer.

I quickly shot these images with my iPad in this morning's overcast so the true gray blue color isn't coming through but you can see that a Bismarck can do well up here in Nor Cal if, and it's a big if, it is California grown. I gave up on Florida sourced ones a long time ago with their big plant/tiny rootball characteristics. This one was a small plant/big root system CA grown specimen in a 15 gallon container roughly six years ago. It gets TONS of water winter and summer and is in freely draining loam soil.

The white color of bismarckia is from the wax production by the plant. the function of wax is to reflect light, thereby limiting heating of the leaflet and evapotranspiration losses(water). When I was in arizona, my bizzies always looked a bit more greenish coming out of winter in my heavy clay soils, the newer fronds that became more grey/white after the 100F+ heat hit, even on cloudy days(which are rare there). There are surely genetic variations between individuals in wax production as well, but I saw this happen over time in cycles on (4) individual palms. I have also seen it in chamaerops cerifera and brahea armatas to some extent, "blueing up" in the heat. A number of growers have commented that the blue chamaerops are more blue in bright sun. I had one go completely green after the freeze of 2007, then turn back to blue that summer. If the sunlight is too dim, the white reflects too much sunlight that is needed for photosynthesis, so the plant will grow slow, all else equal. If the sunlight is too strong, the leaflets can dessicate if it does not have enough wax for protection. Bismarckias have very broad leaflets, the anthithesis of a desert tree generally according to arizona botanists, but the silver ones seem to be very well adapted to the hot desert. I expect that the heavy white wax helps cut down the really intense sun. To the extent that the plant adapts to its environment, it can be expected that it will "whiten" in the heat and full bright sun, and "green up" a bit in shade and in less intense winter sun. My florida bizzies very look grey/white even on a cloudy day, pretty much no green. ANd they dont seem to get green in winter, but winters are much warmer(10F) in florida than arizona. Part of the consistent bizzie white on my florida palms could be genetic, but also part of it is adaptive as they have become more white after planting them out(in the local nursery they didnt get that much sun).

Edited March 8, 201313 yr by sonoranfans

Where did you hear that they fry in Central Florida all the time? I planted my first one in 2000 and 2 more a couple years later, and they have not shown damage from frost or the cold. Maybe you are thinking of the green form that do fry here in Central Florida.

Don't listen to me, I don't know what i am talking about.

Maybe California people know better and just plant more choice species--they usually set the standard for palm collecting.

Maybe California people know better and just plant more choice species--they usually set the standard for palm collecting.

In private yards I agree, but in public places? Plenty of awful choices just like everywhere else.... And its obvious from the other thread that there are plenty of bizzies in private yards in Cali.

Maybe California people know better and just plant more choice species--they usually set the standard for palm collecting.

In private yards I agree, but in public places? Plenty of awful choices just like everywhere else.... And its obvious from the other thread that there are plenty of bizzies in private yards in Cali.

Many Northern California public palm plantings are simply dreadful and un-imaginative most of the time. Southern California does a great job, Northern California stinks! They plant crap that isn't adapted to the climate here and looks like crap, thus deterring anyone from getting interested in palms. The city of Santa Cruz is a case in point. They plant the wrong washingtonias, which hate the cold and wet coastal climate and end up croaking, and they wonder why. And there are awful looking trachies all over town. Yet it's such a great palm climate for the right palms, including braheas. And then there are the date palms on the SF Peninsula, don't even get me started about those. Capitola has done a little better, but they have planted a queen monoculture throughout town. At least they look better than the awful trachies. There is a beautiful Chilean wine palm at the Mission that is over a hundred years old, which is a clue that people in the late 1800's and early 1900's knew more about palms than they do here today.

Northern California is somewhat palm illiterate.

So beside Jim's bizzie, are there any photographs of any bizzies growing anywhere else in Northern California? Seems this palm is virtually non-existent up here.

from palmpedia:

Blue/silver form in Mediterranean climate:

This is a great palm for such a climate, but it never looks quite as amazing/majestic as it does in a more tropical climate. It is highly tolerant of intense, inland heat, growing fastest where it is the hottest. However, it also grows well along the coast of such a climate- but significantly more slowly and with less intense coloration. It is best to grow this palm in a well draining soil, but palms grown in dense clay soils seems to do pretty well. Keeping the soil moist sure seems to keep this palm happier.

Full sun is the best location for this palm. Unfortunately full sun often means the most intense cold exposure in the winter. It is cold tolerant down to the high 20s/-3.3C as a seedling, often being defoliated at temps below 27F/-2.77C (but usually recovers if the bud is treated well). However, as this plant matures its cold tolerance seems to improve dramatically, with some palms surviving temps down near 22F/-5.55C with only moderate leaf damage. Over winter this is one of those palms that tends to go 'into a coma' often not showing the least bit of growth for 4-6 months at a time. However, once it warms up, it is not unusual to see some palms produce up to 1-2 leaves a month (the larger the faster it grows) which is very fast for a Mediterranean climate palm.

Maybe California people know better and just plant more choice species--they usually set the standard for palm collecting.

Actually they are way underused as street palms and common yard palms. The palm collectors who set the standards all have them in SoCal. I haven't seen a palm collection in SoCal yet that didn't include a Bismarckia.

The city of Encinitas did a surprisingly nice job with the widening of Leucadia Blvd. a few years back, including quite a number of (what I think are) boxed bismarckias. They aren't taking off yet, and seem to be still adjusting to street-side locations with likely less water than they're used to, but look like they'll do okay. Probably the warmest, full-sun locations we have on the coast. They also put in this massive jubea, crane and all, which struck me as a pretty expensive decision for random municipal landscaping.

I'm 0 for 4 on the silvers, but there were some extenuating circumstances. My green has been in the ground for well over 10 years, much slower than silvers, but it looks good.

The city of Encinitas did a surprisingly nice job with the widening of Leucadia Blvd. a few years back, including quite a number of (what I think are) boxed bismarckias. They aren't taking off yet, and seem to be still adjusting to street-side locations with likely less water than they're used to, but look like they'll do okay. Probably the warmest, full-sun locations we have on the coast. They also put in this massive jubea, crane and all, which struck me as a pretty expensive decision for random municipal landscaping.

those look like brahea armatas, not bismarckias.... Brahea armatas are a very good choice for public landscaping in a sunny mediterranean climate. And I do like the jubaea, excellent choice!

Edited March 8, 201313 yr by sonoranfans

Yeah, I don't have any pics of the bismarckias. Just had that one of the jubea hanging around. =)

Geez, I got a post from Daxin on my own forum telling me Bizmarck palms won't grow in Northern California. Yes, I am telling you, 90% of gardeners in the entire State think Bizmarck is not a palm for California. I just keep running into one naysayer after the next on this palm. Jim is the only one who so far seems to have dared to plant one in the greater cooler Bay area. Of course, I guess no one must have told his bizmarck that it shouldn't grow in the Bay area. Shhht, let's not tell it.

So many people tell me not to bother that it's literally going to be painful to drop $80 on a really big 15 gallon specimen.

If I had listened to all the naysayers, about 2/3rd of my garden would not exist. People even told me not to plant cherries because supposedly we don't get enough chill in the Winter. And it's not warm enough to grow cherimoyas. Yet I get a bumper crop every year both on cherries and cherimoyas. I wouldn't have a chamberyonia which also turns out to grow just fine here. In over 90% of the cases I run into when things don't grow, it's usually not the climate that is to blame, but some other factor, like lack of water, not using the right fertilizer, or even common garden fungus. Rather than investigating, most people just blame the climate.

OK, rant over.

Hi Axel,

Was I that discouraging? I did not say you can not grow a Bismarkia, just that you need a perfect spot and it probably won't be all that impressive. I wish you all the success as I'm a big zone pusher myself and I enjoy discovering "impossibles" in the Bay Area like the Ice Cream Bean tree in your garden and Ficus damaropsis in Downtown Santa Cruz. Personally I think you should try Dypsis marojejyi, psammophila, Orange Crush, saintlucei, Licuala peltata Sumawongii, etc. etc.

In terms of the ultimate blue palm, those Copernicia hospita at Nong Nooch sure look even more impressive/refined than Bismarkia, and it supposedly has a bit cold hardiness also.

The city of Encinitas did a surprisingly nice job with the widening of Leucadia Blvd. a few years back, including quite a number of (what I think are) boxed bismarckias. They aren't taking off yet, and seem to be still adjusting to street-side locations with likely less water than they're used to, but look like they'll do okay. Probably the warmest, full-sun locations we have on the coast. They also put in this massive jubea, crane and all, which struck me as a pretty expensive decision for random municipal landscaping.

Sorry, but I'm not seeing anything the photo resembling a Bismarckia. If you put a Brahea armata and a Bismarckia nobilis side by side, you'd see a marked difference in trunks, leaves, inflorescences, etc. They share blue/silver coloration but Bismarckia have much fuller leaves and more slender trunks.

The city of Encinitas did a surprisingly nice job with the widening of Leucadia Blvd. a few years back, including quite a number of (what I think are) boxed bismarckias. They aren't taking off yet, and seem to be still adjusting to street-side locations with likely less water than they're used to, but look like they'll do okay. Probably the warmest, full-sun locations we have on the coast. They also put in this massive jubea, crane and all, which struck me as a pretty expensive decision for random municipal landscaping.

Sorry, but I'm not seeing anything the photo resembling a Bismarckia. If you put a Brahea armata and a Bismarckia nobilis side by side, you'd see a marked difference in trunks, leaves, inflorescences, etc. They share blue/silver coloration but Bismarckia have much fuller leaves and more slender trunks. Kudos, though to the city of Encinitas for its creative palm plantings.