Santa Cruz Mountains/Bay Area Palm recommendations

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Phil from Jungle Palms is making a trip to Norcal (See http://www.cloudforest.com/cafe/announces/special-palm-order-from-jungle-palms-t3977.html) and I've placed an order, but I'd like to broaden my horizons. Can folks here recommend palms for a very tropical look?

My climate is rather mild, somewhat heat deprived, and is very similar to places like Arequipa, Peru. If it wasn't for the cool nights I would be growing all sorts of more tropical things, but the cold Norcal ocean waters prohibit this. We're in sweaters in the Morning and evenings, and in shorts and t-shirts in the afternoons. Summers: 45-55F nights, 65-80F days, with frequent night time fog/drizzle and afternoon daytime heat up to 80F. Winters are 35-50F nights (550 feet on hillside, generally above inversion layer) and 55-70F with occasional 80F days. (We had two weeks of 75-81F mid Winter so far due to the south facing wind protected terrain here, seems to be more and more every year.). We get short radiational frosts 29-32F at least once or twice per Winter and a dozen or more white frost 35-39F which would give most Southern California palm growers ulcers. (800-1200 hours of chill annually.) I grow cherimoyas, lucumas and ice cream bean (highland Inga) with some minor frost burn every Winter (trees are 20-30 feet tall so impossible to protect anymore). I use chamburro mountain papayas as temperature indicators, they are weeds throughout the garden. Up top they keep their foliage, half way down the hill they loose leaves but no trunk damage, at bottom of hill they loose some green wood as well. My guess is Sunset zone 16 up top, zone 15 below. USDA has us rated zone 10a, not quite as good as the zones 10b higher up the mountains, but better than the surrounding zones 9b. But I prefer to stick with plants that have a zone 9b, 25F in the open, 28F with overhead protection hardiness rating as I do not wish to run out and cover up palms during the Winter.

Any advice on what to grow would be great. Parajubaea is the staple around here as the seeds germinate like crazy and come up everywhere. So far, I have a dozen trees, one of them has 8 feet of trunk. But I'd like some other palms to fill in between.

Edited February 17, 2013 by worldsight

[daxin]

Have you been to Richard Josephson's garden in Santa Cruz? Cool summers does not seem to hurt his Phoenix reclinata. Here are some photos of N. Cal. Palm Soc. tour in 2010.

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/23989-richard-josephson-garden/

Some less common palms that might work for you include: Arenga micrantha, Ceroxylon parvifrons, Chamaedorea benziei, Geonoma undata, Juania australis, Rhapis multifida, Rhopalostylis.

Luen had a crop of Trachycarpus that did not move. If he has not thrown them out, you can get a grove of latisectus, martianus, and takil for very little. The Khasia Hills form is quite elegant.

PM Darold and JasonD for more recommendations, and please join IPS and our local chapter.

[neoflora]

Grow what works! Option. Move south!

[DoomsDave]

Keep us apprized, of what makes it what does not, and when and how.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

I fell "victim" to some IPS members years ago that infected me with this contagious palm disease which I hear is incurable, They got me to grow quite a few things that have done very well here, I am just looking to add. I should have posted my list. Here's what I have had great success with for the last 14 years. i am looking to add to this list. And no, I won't move south just because I am interested in palms. The Santa Cruz mountains offers one of those unique climates where apples and palms grow well together.

- Parajubaea cocoides, 8 specimens, one with 6-8 feet of trunk, no bloom yet.

- parajubaea torallyi var torallyi, trunking.

- p. Sunka and microcarpa are still small undivided leaves

- p. baueri from Darold, rather large

- p sapida

- prichardia hillebrandii, used to get little spots on leaves during Winter but no more as palm is getting larger

- Chambeyronia macrocarpa, was an experiment, to my surprise it's thriving, pushing leaves even in Winter

- chamadorea plumosa

- chamadorea radicalis

- Kentia

- a. cunningama "Illawara" good in shade only, Summer heatwaves burns the leaves

- a. cunningama "Home Depot" (best king palm, it just grows)

- a. maxima (occasional light burn at 29F when below 30F for more than 1-2 hours)

- caryota urens

- caryota Thai giant, this thing is huge, just about above the roof line of a two story house now

- ceroxylon quindiense, didn't grow much until I started to pee on it, no joke, seems that's the trick for this palm

- chamaedorea costaricana, this is a weed

- Chamaedorea glaucifolia, definitely hardier than the 30F posted on the Norcal IPS site, no burn down to 28F

- Chamaedorea microspadix, definitely a weed, seeds like crazy, shows up in random places in the garden

- chamaedorea shiediana, now above roof top

- Butia capitata

- plectocomia himalaya var "rip your skin to shreds"

- Butia eriospatha

- jubea chilensis (seedling from Santa Cruz Mission tree)

- Chamaerops humilis var. Argentea

- phoenix rupicola

Then some unlabeled stuff, mostly mystery phoenix species and mystery trachycarpus species.

[WestCoastGal]

Any thoughts about adding a mule or two to your landscaping if you have the room? Not exactly as exotic as some of the other choices you have to grow in your zone but they are not really common here on the west coast and do very well in our area. Great tropical look and can provide nice shade as well. Plus whether you are in a one- or two-story you can enjoy the palm from inside looking out your windows (ie not just the trunk) as they mature.

You said you were getting or putting together an order from Jungle Music. Suspect they may have some, if not All Tropical Palms in Gilroy may still.

[WestCoastGal]

Here's a recent photo of our two mules, which were transplanted as specimens about 3 years ago now, for an example of how mature mules do in our area. From the info we have they were raised in containers near Half Moon Bay and later bought and moved (still in boxes) to the Gilroy area, so pretty much born and raised locally.

We're in the process of landscaping as you can tell, so not much yet to show otherwise. I decided to use them flanking our dining pergola and make them the cornerstone of our backyard design. Placed each of them 5 feet from the fenceline so they can easily be trimmed when necessary. They do great in our freezing temps and when we get over 100. I was surprised by how much shade the fronds provide, most welcome when in the 90s and above. Very tropical feel and we just love being outside with them, but nice to look at from inside our house as well.

[bahia]

I notice you don't have many Brahea species on your list, and I'd recommend Brahea 'Clara' to your list, as well as brandegeana and edulis. I'd also second the suggestion of Trachycarpus such as martianus. Chamaerops humilis v cerifera is great also. Another I really like is Rhopalostylis baueri cheesemanii, and any of the various Chamaedorea that strike your interest. C. costaricana, microspadix, radicalis and woodsonii have all done well for me. Chamaedorea plumosa also does well, and maybe C. tepijilote if you can give it a protected spot.

[richnorm]

If you can grow Chambeyronia then there's many other New Cal palms to try. Burretiokentia hapala would be a good starter. Also you may be able to grow all the Hawaii Pritchardias if you can grow hillebrandii. Maybe try minor and beccariana for starters. With those two doing well you also have quite a few Dypsis options......

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

If you can grow Chambeyronia then there's many other New Cal palms to try. Burretiokentia hapala would be a good starter. Also you may be able to grow all the Hawaii Pritchardias if you can grow hillebrandii. Maybe try minor and beccariana for starters. With those two doing well you also have quite a few Dypsis options......

My hilebrandii is an accident, it was never supposed to grow here. I made a trip to Monterey Bay Nursery and Luen had these guys for sale as an experiment. I get little spots on it in the Winter but it quickly recovers in the Spring. It has taken 29-32F at most so far but with overhead protection, so no damage other than the cold stress. It's 5 years old, and keeps getting bigger and more robust. The chambeyronia is also a miracle. Slow but slowly getting bigger. These will get killed if they ever make it past the canopy of my trees. But that's a long way away.

Do you really think I could pull off a Burretiokentia hapala? Looks like a real beauty.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

I notice you don't have many Brahea species on your list, and I'd recommend Brahea 'Clara' to your list, as well as brandegeana and edulis. I'd also second the suggestion of Trachycarpus such as martianus. Chamaerops humilis v cerifera is great also. Another I really like is Rhopalostylis baueri cheesemanii, and any of the various Chamaedorea that strike your interest. C. costaricana, microspadix, radicalis and woodsonii have all done well for me. Chamaedorea plumosa also does well, and maybe C. tepijilote if you can give it a protected spot.

I grow brahea armata, but when it coms to fan palms, I prefer the livingstona genus. Brahea edulis is a much better palm than washingtonias, i'll hav to check out the other ones you mention.

[Hammer]

What about a Beccariophoenix alfredii? I didn't notice that on your current list.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

What about a Beccariophoenix alfredii? I didn't notice that on your current list.

I ordered one, I definitely want to give it a try, looks like it has a lot of potential. The hardiness reports I've seen seems to suggest this palm does better in cooler climates where it has a better chance to harden off for the Winter. In Florida, it seems to get fried at the slightest sign of frost, in Southern California it does a little bette, but Norcal reports are coming in rating it almost as hardy as p. torallyi.

Mule palm is on my list as well.

[richnorm]

If you can grow Chambeyronia then there's many other New Cal palms to try. Burretiokentia hapala would be a good starter. Also you may be able to grow all the Hawaii Pritchardias if you can grow hillebrandii. Maybe try minor and beccariana for starters. With those two doing well you also have quite a few Dypsis options......

My hilebrandii is an accident, it was never supposed to grow here. I made a trip to Monterey Bay Nursery and Luen had these guys for sale as an experiment. I get little spots on it in the Winter but it quickly recovers in the Spring. It has taken 29-32F at most so far but with overhead protection, so no damage other than the cold stress. It's 5 years old, and keeps getting bigger and more robust. The chambeyronia is also a miracle. Slow but slowly getting bigger. These will get killed if they ever make it past the canopy of my trees. But that's a long way away.

Do you really think I could pull off a Burretiokentia hapala? Looks like a real beauty.

Would be tougher than hillebrandii and on a par with Chambeyronia so worth a shot under canopy for sure.

[Darold Petty]

Alex, we have a Burretiokentia hapala growing at the Lakeside Palmetum in Oakland. It grows very slowly (light years behind Hawaii or Florida); but it always looks good.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

OK, it's added to the list.

[akamu]

trachycarpus latisectus ? tropical color and form

[akamu]

geonoma undata grows well in SF a very awesome choice and worth a try good luck

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Oh these are great suggestions. The geonoma looks fantastic, but I wonder if I will be able to find one.

[marinkeith]

I'm in the north bay but up on a slope and the climate sounds very similar. I might get just a touch more heat in the summer. There are many fine suggestions already but some others that grow well for me that I'd definitely want to include:

- both kinds of Howeas

- Hedescepe

- Acrocomia aculeata

- any Ceroxylon you can get your hands on

- Rhaphis

- Bismarkia in hotest location

So far (last 5-6 years or so) everything from New Caledonia that I've tried in part sun has done well: any Chamberonia, Burretiokentia hapala and koghiensis, Kentiopsis oliveformis, Cyphophoenix elegens, Actinokentia, Alloschmidtia. I like them all alot but some may be pushing the edge. I've gone as far as Clinostigma savoryanum which is on the verge of making it through winter number 3.

Its not Dypsis country like SoCal, I've killed enough to know for sure, but decipiens and baronii grow well and look good. Years ago I got some from Phil labeled "kingali" and they have made it through thick and thin in a horrible location.

I'd like to second the recommendation of Arenga micanthra. I put a small one in the ground probably 8 years ago - the first 4 or 5 it was painfully slow but now it is growing very well pushing 8 foot leaves - lots of water helps - and it looks like it will be one of the stars out of everything planted.

If you do manage to find Geonoma undata or Lepidorrhachis mooreana please tell me, I'd love to get my hands on some....

[Palm Killer]

I live out here in gilroy where we get way colder. Try these other varieties that work out here and will work for you in the right spot

Wallichia densiflora (monterey nursery) should have some left

Jubaeopsis caffra (tejas tropicals) large cheap!!!

dypsis decaryi (try and find a large one)

chamaedorea hooperiana

syagrus schizophylla

well there is a few more ideas

[JasonD]

I notice you don't have many Brahea species on your list, and I'd recommend Brahea 'Clara' to your list, as well as brandegeana and edulis. I'd also second the suggestion of Trachycarpus such as martianus. Chamaerops humilis v cerifera is great also. Another I really like is Rhopalostylis baueri cheesemanii, and any of the various Chamaedorea that strike your interest. C. costaricana, microspadix, radicalis and woodsonii have all done well for me. Chamaedorea plumosa also does well, and maybe C. tepijilote if you can give it a protected spot.

Brahea calcarea/nitida is another good one, as is B. moorei. Both are often available at UC Berkeley Bot Garden store.

Also: Livistona fulva, L. australis, L. decora, L. nitida, L. chinensis (as gunnera substitute for shade, not as a tree), L. saribus.

Arenga micrantha's a winner even on the foggy side of San Francisco. You also have enough heat to grow A. engleri, which mopes in the fog belt.

Any Ceroxylon is worth trying. C. parvifrons, ventricosum, vogelianum, quindiuense, parvum, and alpinum have already begun proving themselves around here.

If you're succeeding with Pritchardia hillebrandii, you should grab P. minor, P. beccariana, P. lanigera, P. remota, and P. arecina, and you'll likely have luck with the other Hawaiian species.

Hedyscepe is a must.

Dypsis baronii, D. ambositrae, D. decipiens, and D. onilahensis should all grow for you.

Butia X Jubaea and vice-versa are vigorous and ultra-hardy. Ditto so many of Patrick Shaefer's hybrids.

Trithrinax acanthocoma looks amazing in shade, believe it or not.

All Sabal spp. except S. yapa & S. mauritiiformis should grow more or less slowly for you, with S. bermudana, S. texana, S. 'Riverside' delivering perhaps best results.

Oraniopsis appendiculata will do quite well in a shady moist spot (see at UCSC Arboretum).

Try growing Chamaedorea radicalis tree form as a self-sowing grove - really beautiful impact. Chamaedorea oreophila is quite elegant and cold-hardy.

Phoenix loureiroi var. humilis/pedunculata is a nice small-medium palm tree.

Other gambles with decent odds: Acanthophoenix crinita, Prestoea acuminata from the Andes, Dictyocaryum lamarckianum, Geonoma undata, Allagoptera spp, Copernicia alba, Coccothrinax montana, Lepidorrhachis,

[Palm Killer]

I'm in the north bay but up on a slope and the climate sounds very similar. I might get just a touch more heat in the summer. There are many fine suggestions already but some others that grow well for me that I'd definitely want to include:

- both kinds of Howeas

- Hedescepe

- Acrocomia aculeata

- any Ceroxylon you can get your hands on

- Rhaphis

- Bismarkia in hotest location

So far (last 5-6 years or so) everything from New Caledonia that I've tried in part sun has done well: any Chamberonia, Burretiokentia hapala and koghiensis, Kentiopsis oliveformis, Cyphophoenix elegens, Actinokentia, Alloschmidtia. I like them all alot but some may be pushing the edge. I've gone as far as Clinostigma savoryanum which is on the verge of making it through winter number 3.

Its not Dypsis country like SoCal, I've killed enough to know for sure, but decipiens and baronii grow well and look good. Years ago I got some from Phil labeled "kingali" and they have made it through thick and thin in a horrible location.

I'd like to second the recommendation of Arenga micanthra. I put a small one in the ground probably 8 years ago - the first 4 or 5 it was painfully slow but now it is growing very well pushing 8 foot leaves - lots of water helps - and it looks like it will be one of the stars out of everything planted.

If you do manage to find Geonoma undata or Lepidorrhachis mooreana please tell me, I'd love to get my hands on some....

Rare palm seeds has geonoma undata seeds for sale right now

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Thanks for all the tips. I just ordered the geonoma seeds. Also ordered from the Texas outfit.

[AJQ]

I cant believe for one moment that Beccariophoenix alfredii is being considered as cold hardy as Parajubaea TVT ......?

I have tried several of these and they were only hardy down to -3c/26.6f before they fried completely, even with overhead cover. Also my larger one got severely sunburnt even though allegedly acclimatised to sun and more importantly never recovered from it; it pushed out half a spear then Carked it :-(

TVT however, does just fine providing Narnia doesn't happen again......

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

i don't know where you got your alfredii, sounds like you didn't actually get an alfredii or you have other issues.

I have several in full sun, we're not talking wimpy low sun angles as found in Ireland, it's 36N latitude full California sun. I've never, ever seen even a hint of burn on them, even with 15% humidity at 103F. And mine was exposed to 26F last Winter, it lost its spear the following April but came back with a vengeance, growing vigorously as we speak. They're not quite as hardy as torallyi, but apparently pretty darn close.

[Zeeth]

I cant believe for one moment that Beccariophoenix alfredii is being considered as cold hardy as Parajubaea TVT ......?

I have tried several of these and they were only hardy down to -3c/26.6f before they fried completely, even with overhead cover. Also my larger one got severely sunburnt even though allegedly acclimatised to sun and more importantly never recovered from it; it pushed out half a spear then Carked it :-(

TVT however, does just fine providing Narnia doesn't happen again......

B. alfredii shouldn't burn in full sun. I had some growing in DEEP shade for 2 years and I moved them out into full Florida sun and they were fine.

B. sp. windows however is a different story.

[AJQ]

Hmmm...... Perhaps you guys may be on to something here?

Perhaps I wasn't actually sold the correct palm, thing is how do you tell?

This was a few years ago when they first came on to the market, so may be difficult to tell the difference even for the seller, let alone myself....... :-((((((

[Tropicdoc]

Continues to appear to be variability in the hardiness of B. alfredii. Probably similar to queen palms. Queens this year ranged from total defoliation and apparent death to around 10-15% frost burn. These were all in the same small neighborhood that I live in.

[SHEP]

What ever happened to the fifteen (#15) Trachy Princeps 7g you said you grew and were for sale, but you never have them available for some reason. Do they really exist or do you just like to post pictures?

E