Liquid Seaweed Fertilizer

[Got Palms]

Finally carried at my local store, is it better sprayed on foliage or can you get same results delivered through drip irrigation system, Thanks in advance for any advice.

[dan.vagnoni]

I like to make a little slurry and pour it on the base. Sometimes Ill mix a few things in at once(fish emulsion,mycorrhiza, super thrive, ect...) but usually in the morning of a day that I'm going out for a while. Its quite a smell....

[stygiana]

Finally carried at my local store, is it better sprayed on foliage or can you get same results delivered through drip irrigation system, Thanks in advance for any advice.

I found foliar spray to be more efficient in winter and spring. But it's just a personnal experience, I don't know if it works the same for others in other climates, soils, etc.

[stygiana]

I like to make a little slurry and pour it on the base. Sometimes Ill mix a few things in at once(fish emulsion,mycorrhiza, super thrive, ect...) but usually in the morning of a day that I'm going out for a while. Its quite a smell....

It's good to read others use mycorriza. I use both mycorrhiza and fertilizers. The advantage is that quite a few palms which used to be chlorotic don't need any fertilizer now after mycorrhiza. I still use fertilizer with the few hungriest palms. Or some special fertlizers (gypsum, manganese carboxylate or calcium borate) when I notice some zigzag on the new leaves...

[Tassie_Troy1971]

Liquid Kelp is fantastic and if you have the eze flow to run it through your drippers all the better !

[Steve the palmreader]

What about salt content ?

[Got Palms]

Liquid Kelp is fantastic and if you have the eze flow to run it through your drippers all the better !

Yes i do have EZFlo system for feeding, and do i have to worry about salt content as steve has mentioned!

[sonoranfans]

I have been using a humic acid/kelp mix for 5 years. I dont think kelp is intended for foliar application as it biodegrades and releases micros in a soil application. I would apply it at the base every 1-2 months... Since it biodegrades, Im not sure why you would use it in line, no advantage to that frequent an application and it will probably accumulate and possibly plug or restrict drippers...

Edited February 8, 2013 by sonoranfans

[Got Palms]

I have been using a humic acid/kelp mix for 5 years. I dont think kelp is intended for foliar application as it biodegrades and releases micros in a soil application. I would apply it at the base every 1-2 months... Since it biodegrades, Im not sure why you would use it in line, no advantage to that frequent an application and it will probably accumulate and possibly plug or restrict drippers...

230+ palms and 50+cycads to difficult to feed by hand when i use EZ Flo i only add enough to feed for maybe 3 or 4 watering cycles iv used fish emulsion with no problems before with clogging, the label on this product suggest foliage application but was wondering if i can get same results with drip system application. It seems that members have had success with both type of application< Thanks for all the responses.

[Tassie_Troy1971]

Sergio

I have been using seasol every 2 weeks on my palms via a watering can and i have never seen any ill effects of salt etc .

Here is a link to the product i use

http://www.seasol.com.au/index.php/faq-s

I have been thinking of buying an eze flow tank to connect to my watering /dripper system to save time etc .

By the look of your garden the eze flow seems like a great way to go !

All the best from Tasmania

Troy

[sonoranfans]

I have been using a humic acid/kelp mix for 5 years. I dont think kelp is intended for foliar application as it biodegrades and releases micros in a soil application. I would apply it at the base every 1-2 months... Since it biodegrades, Im not sure why you would use it in line, no advantage to that frequent an application and it will probably accumulate and possibly plug or restrict drippers...

230+ palms and 50+cycads to difficult to feed by hand when i use EZ Flo i only add enough to feed for maybe 3 or 4 watering cycles iv used fish emulsion with no problems before with clogging, the label on this product suggest foliage application but was wondering if i can get same results with drip system application. It seems that members have had success with both type of application< Thanks for all the responses.

What about salt content ?

Salt content is taken care of my having humic acid, a salt chelator, in the mix. Excess salt is chelated and removed from bioavailability. I dont have to worry about salt content, but then again I dont drip fertigate, and dont use the kelp only product.

[MichaelS]

How much do you use?

Michael

[LJG]

Troy, I ran Green Ganic (Seasol for you guys) through my ezflows and it didn't work out. I even got the latest shipment from New Zealand of one that was cleaned of larger particles more (I believe they centrifuged it) but it still did not run well. Even micronized bone and blood meal still has size and doesn't like to go through the fertigation system. The stuff is black gold and I hand water with it and foliar with it but just had a hard time through Ezflow.

[Jastin]

What fert do you use with your ezflow? I can't seem to find one that works good with mine, I've noticed more issues on the new growth than before. Another problem with mine is I will check the lawn's station ppm output and it will be at let's say 250 ppm. Then I check my drip stations and they don't even show up with any ppm. I have to turn my ball valve so my lawn is at 1200 ppm ( which will burn it ) just for my drip to read 100+ ppm. Also, the liquid seaweed I use says to mix 1-2 oz per gallon of water. If I put it in my ezflow I would run out of it just on station 1 as I use about 10,000 gallons every time I water.

Any suggestions?

[Guest SanDimasCA]

I use kelp also as a foliar feed after being recommended by Jeff Marcus.

Anyone else out there that uses wakame, wild laver or dried seaweed. I purchase them from chinese supermarket and are quiet inexpensive.

I soak in boiled water and then strain the liquid with fine mesh so the particles do not clog the sprayer.

I mix the kelp extract with molasses/turbinado sugar. I also add superthrive or B1 vitamin.

Im doing this in the hopes of giving the palms an energy drink kind of boost so that they grow a little faster and hopefully a little stronger and healthier?

Believe if or not alot of this experimentation has been tinkered with by the hydroponics/marijuana culture web sites...very interesting and lively chat rooms they have.

This group uses temperature, light and nutrients to speed up the phototsynthetic/metabolic cycle of their (tomato)plants.

BTW...anyone else use natural fertilizer?

Liquid fertilizer teas with fermented/aged manure and rabbit pellets. This I use as root drench and never as foliar feed.

Anyone else out there that make their kelp extract? Recommendations and suggestions greatly appreciated.

Ritchy

[Tassie_Troy1971]

Geez Len - i might have to strain the seasol through my missuses stockings so i can put it through the Eze flow when it arrives !

The greenganic appears to be a mix of things and not just liquid seaweed !

Troy

[sonoranfans]

How much do you use?

Michael

I use a 50% humic/50% norwegian kelp mix at about 3oz per 2.5 gallon watering can and that amount is used with a watering can around the root area for 2-3 palms of small to medium size or 1 large palm. It is good for 2-3months. The humic acid is a liquid preparation that contains fulvates(only liquid preparations can contain fulvates) and its function is food for beneficial bacteria, chelating of micros (and salt removal) and also it kills harmful nematodes(a problem in sandy florida soils). the kelp helps to ensure more consistent micro delivery through time. Alternately I have also used a sprayer, but the amount delivered is not as consistent with coarse sprayers, and I have had fine sprayers clog. And you dont want to filter this stuff, its the sediment that provides a lot of the micros over time as it degrades... I water with a can directly on the palm and root area, so you could call it foliar, I am just skeptical that any significant amount is absorbed by the leaflets. I have yet to see the research on foliar delivery that is convincing. Many horticultural colleges are also very skeptical on foliar feeding, some saying its up to 20x less efficient as I recall.

[LJG]

Geez Len - i might have to strain the seasol through my missuses stockings so i can put it through the Eze flow when it arrives ! The greenganic appears to be a mix of things and not just liquid seaweed ! Troy

Sorry, my mistake. Nitrosol is what I meant. It has mostly a bone/blood meal component. It is great stuff.

[Got Palms]

What fert do you use with your ezflow? I can't seem to find one that works good with mine, I've noticed more issues on the new growth than before. Another problem with mine is I will check the lawn's station ppm output and it will be at let's say 250 ppm. Then I check my drip stations and they don't even show up with any ppm. I have to turn my ball valve so my lawn is at 1200 ppm ( which will burn it ) just for my drip to read 100+ ppm. Also, the liquid seaweed I use says to mix 1-2 oz per gallon of water. If I put it in my ezflow I would run out of it just on station 1 as I use about 10,000 gallons every time I water.

Any suggestions?

Jastin i bypass my lawn stations and only drip stations are connected to Ez Flow, i pretty much use any fert that will completely dissolve in water i just bought a box of miracle grow because it was dirt cheep damaged box i have not watered since oct because rain is pretty much taking care of watering at the moment but will start watering in spring!

[LJG]

What fert do you use with your ezflow? I can't seem to find one that works good with mine, I've noticed more issues on the new growth than before. Another problem with mine is I will check the lawn's station ppm output and it will be at let's say 250 ppm. Then I check my drip stations and they don't even show up with any ppm. I have to turn my ball valve so my lawn is at 1200 ppm ( which will burn it ) just for my drip to read 100+ ppm. Also, the liquid seaweed I use says to mix 1-2 oz per gallon of water. If I put it in my ezflow I would run out of it just on station 1 as I use about 10,000 gallons every time I water. Any suggestions?

That's one of the biggest negatives people have with Ezflow. Basically you will need to bypass. I don't use drip so my lawn and planters get the same dose ratios. However another negative is that the first few stations will burn hotter then the rest when you first fill. If anyone is planning on a fertigation system, do the extra work to plan for Dosatron. Much better system. I couldn't use it since I have a pool and koi pond plus other things that need fresh water. So I had to do a bunch of Ezflows. They still are great, but not as 'fill and forget' or exact like the Dosatron I run for the greenhouse.

[kahili]

Ezflow only works with up to 100' of hose, and good water pressure. After 100' of hose, your ppm start to decrease a lot. Like Len said, a Dosatron injector is a much better and easier way to apply foliar fertilizer. You can put any length of hose etc on it, doesn't need high water pressure, and you can switch to 1/200 ratio and that increases the amt of concentrate that you start with. But there is a huge difference in cost, and you have to check occasionally to make sure that the calibration is good. Also have to take it apart and clean it on occasion.It helps to run water thru it after using it to clean out everything.

Plants take up most (around 90%) of their nutrition through the roots. When I use foliar fert (liquid) I am drenching the soil-I don't care about the leaves. And foliar only lasts about a week, so during the warmer season when the soil is warm enough, you have to apply it every week. Thats why I use a good slow release or controlled release fert everywhere I can i.e. plants in the ground and containers a gallon and larger. Its so easy and quick. Then you just have to make sure that the plants are getting enough water to release the fert. Plus there is a lot more chance of burning a plant with foliar fert than slow release.

[Alicehunter2000]

How bout just plain ol' seaweed off the beach? too much salt? Can I just bury or lay the stuff in the yard?

[Guest SanDimasCA]

There are actually alot of articles on the web if you GOOGLE the topics: foliar feeding, plant metabolism, plant transpiration and photosynthesis.

Most of my palms are still in 1-15 gallon pots in well protected south facing location. I really dont root feed/water them more than once per week because of the cold weather.

I foliar feed(kelp/molasses mix) more often about twice a day in the morning and around sunset when stomatas under the leaves are open.

I dont want to risk overwatering the palms during the cold season because Ive read that palms minimize/slow down metabolism during the cold.
Foliar feed allows the bypass of nutrient uptakefrom theroots directly onto the photosynthetic engine of plant leaves.

Foliar feeding also produces an osmotic gradient and whereby stimulating the roots and trunk to supply water to the leaves.

Anyone here ever supply CO2 carbon dioxide or CO carbon monoxide to palms needed for photosynthesis via carbonated water foliar spray or smoke.

These principles are being applied to hydroponic culture...just wondering anyone applying these thoughts to palm culture and growth at least in the seedling

(15 gallons or less) stages.

Im pushing Green spears on my D. pembanas, prestoniana, decipiens, robusta, lasteliana, carlmithii, leucomella, paludosa, Kentiopsis, Clinostigma, Chambeyronia, Cyphophoenix, Burretiokentia, Carpoxylon, Cyphosperma, Ravenea giant&sambiranensis, Syagrus amara & pseudococcus, baueri&chesemani also.

I have to say the Eterpe oleraacea and precatorias are difficult grows and my D. pulilufera (2nd leaf stage) from J Marcus croaked and tokoravina a struggle also.

My palms are not as green or like SILK PLANT condition when I received them from Mr.Marcus but they are pushing GREEN spears.

Any thoughts and inputs apopreciated.

Ritchy

[Palm crazy]

I don't know the brand name but something I saw the other day I like to try is a combination of Bat Guano and Liquid Seaweed in one bottle. My favorite is still fish, but open to trying something new for all my garden plants.

[akamu]

i have been using liquefied organic seaweed extract from growmore through a hose end sprayer for the last two years once a month. I have seen a big imrovement in my palms. E.very other month i add blood meal and worm castings a top layer of mulch and water it in with fish emulsion. ihave had great success with this formula. ialso add a 13-5-8 palm fertilizer 2- 3times a year but not in winter .Starbucks free coffee grounds is also a cheap amendment.coffee coffee coffee

[sonoranfans]

There are actually alot of articles on the web if you GOOGLE the topics: foliar feeding, plant metabolism, plant transpiration and photosynthesis.

Most of my palms are still in 1-15 gallon pots in well protected south facing location. I really dont root feed/water them more than once per week because of the cold weather.

I foliar feed(kelp/molasses mix) more often about twice a day in the morning and around sunset when stomatas under the leaves are open.

I dont want to risk overwatering the palms during the cold season because Ive read that palms minimize/slow down metabolism during the cold.

Foliar feed allows the bypass of nutrient uptakefrom theroots directly onto the photosynthetic engine of plant leaves.

Foliar feeding also produces an osmotic gradient and whereby stimulating the roots and trunk to supply water to the leaves.

Anyone here ever supply CO2 carbon dioxide or CO carbon monoxide to palms needed for photosynthesis via carbonated water foliar spray or smoke.

These principles are being applied to hydroponic culture...just wondering anyone applying these thoughts to palm culture and growth at least in the seedling

(15 gallons or less) stages.

Im pushing Green spears on my D. pembanas, prestoniana, decipiens, robusta, lasteliana, carlmithii, leucomella, paludosa, Kentiopsis, Clinostigma, Chambeyronia, Cyphophoenix, Burretiokentia, Carpoxylon, Cyphosperma, Ravenea giant&sambiranensis, Syagrus amara & pseudococcus, baueri&chesemani also.

I have to say the Eterpe oleraacea and precatorias are difficult grows and my D. pulilufera (2nd leaf stage) from J Marcus croaked and tokoravina a struggle also.

My palms are not as green or like SILK PLANT condition when I received them from Mr.Marcus but they are pushing GREEN spears.

Any thoughts and inputs apopreciated.

Ritchy

There are plenty of skeptics on the advertized effectiveness of foliar feeding. Here is one, there are many in academia. I do see a lot of commercial type articles that are positive, call me a skeptic when they have something to sell. I would think the better founded articles have some hard objective evidence on absorption rates.

http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~linda%20chalker-scott/horticultural%20myths_files/Myths/Foliar%20feeding.pdf

I would say this is a concept to be proven, not disproved as the natural(evolved) mechanisms of foliar feed are probably limited to nitrogen gas in rain, very different chemistry than commercial fertilizers. Nitrogen in rain should be more mobile (than components found in commercial fertilizer) in plant tissue as it has a relatively small molecular cross section. Most articles that I have read support the concept that some micros(not NPK) can be absorbed in small amounts, but those will not be distributed through the plant and there will not be nearly enough through foliar feeding only.

[stygiana]

There are actually alot of articles on the web if you GOOGLE the topics: foliar feeding, plant metabolism, plant transpiration and photosynthesis.

Most of my palms are still in 1-15 gallon pots in well protected south facing location. I really dont root feed/water them more than once per week because of the cold weather.

I foliar feed(kelp/molasses mix) more often about twice a day in the morning and around sunset when stomatas under the leaves are open.

I dont want to risk overwatering the palms during the cold season because Ive read that palms minimize/slow down metabolism during the cold.

Foliar feed allows the bypass of nutrient uptakefrom theroots directly onto the photosynthetic engine of plant leaves.

Foliar feeding also produces an osmotic gradient and whereby stimulating the roots and trunk to supply water to the leaves.

Anyone here ever supply CO2 carbon dioxide or CO carbon monoxide to palms needed for photosynthesis via carbonated water foliar spray or smoke.

These principles are being applied to hydroponic culture...just wondering anyone applying these thoughts to palm culture and growth at least in the seedling

(15 gallons or less) stages.

Im pushing Green spears on my D. pembanas, prestoniana, decipiens, robusta, lasteliana, carlmithii, leucomella, paludosa, Kentiopsis, Clinostigma, Chambeyronia, Cyphophoenix, Burretiokentia, Carpoxylon, Cyphosperma, Ravenea giant&sambiranensis, Syagrus amara & pseudococcus, baueri&chesemani also.

I have to say the Eterpe oleraacea and precatorias are difficult grows and my D. pulilufera (2nd leaf stage) from J Marcus croaked and tokoravina a struggle also.

My palms are not as green or like SILK PLANT condition when I received them from Mr.Marcus but they are pushing GREEN spears.

Any thoughts and inputs apopreciated.

Ritchy

There are plenty of skeptics on the advertized effectiveness of foliar feeding. Here is one, there are many in academia. I do see a lot of commercial type articles that are positive, call me a skeptic when they have something to sell. I would think the better founded articles have some hard objective evidence on absorption rates.

http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~linda%20chalker-scott/horticultural%20myths_files/Myths/Foliar%20feeding.pdf

I would say this is a concept to be proven, not disproved as the natural(evolved) mechanisms of foliar feed are probably limited to nitrogen gas in rain, very different chemistry than commercial fertilizers. Nitrogen in rain should be more mobile (than components found in commercial fertilizer) in plant tissue as it has a relatively small molecular cross section. Most articles that I have read support the concept that some micros(not NPK) can be absorbed in small amounts, but those will not be distributed through the plant and there will not be nearly enough through foliar feeding only.

Hi Tom, thank you for this link, it was very instructive.

I read the whole article. Not really a scientific article (it has not been published in a scientific review and does not mention most of its references). However, it seems fair and rather reliable.

What surprises me somehow is that you sound extremely skeptical while this articles is not that "black and white" and is more nuanced. I share your opinion when you say "call me a skeptic when they have something to sale". But that doesn't mean that all adverts are always false. I don't trust them usually, but it doesn't mean I should reject it all and won't look any further. One should not be simplistic. But I know you're not.

I also wanted to point out that you say "Most articles that I have read support the concept that some micros(not NPK) can be absorbed in small amounts, but those will not be distributed through the plant and there will not be nearly enough through foliar feeding only."

More than NPK, this articles mentions "Results have been mixed in many cases, with some species responding well to treatment and others

remaining unaffected. Generally, the results suggest that foliar application of particular nutrients can be useful in crop production situations where soil conditions limit nutrient availability. For instance, alkaline soils do not readily release many metallic nutrients, especially iron and manganese. Zinc, copper, magnesium, molybdenum, boron, and calcium are other micronutrients required in small quantities that have been applied to foliage in an effort to relieve deficiencies and combat fruit disorders. Fruit, as adjacent tissue, can benefit from foliar spray."

This is precisely the experience I have and it confirmed what I learned and obseved in different schools and, above all, gardens.

On alkaline soils, or soils with severe unbalance (for example a soil which received too much chemical fertilizer for too long, which is typical in conventionnal agriculture), you may have too much carbonates (first case), or too much potash and phosphorus (second case). So plants may not absorb micronutrients (iron, manganese, boron, etc) and some macro (like calcium). And it gets worse in winter. Marginal species can show this type of winter deficiendy even on rather well balanced soils.

And I can tell you that from what I (and other colleagues) experieneced, foliar spray has proved to help to put nutrients exactly where they were deficient (leaves) in these situations. Something this otherwise useful and interesting article forgot to mention is that, although I totally agree concerning the fact that foliar spray can at best only be of local effect (leaves or fruits) and won't correct a deficiency which would affect the whole plant (won't provide nutrients to the trunks, etc), many micro-nutrients have a particularity: they hardly can be transported anyway! It is known and documented that vital elements like maganese, for exemple, once they were extracted from the soil don't move anymore from reserves to parts of the plants which would suffer from defficiency. This is why many of the palm growers have noticed that quite a few deficiencies (but not all) affect first of all the new emerging leaves (zigzag, folding, smaller sizes, burnt tips, etc) while the older leaves are more or less fine. So foliar spray brings the nutrient right where it is needed. Where it is deficient. That's what we want, after all... Don't we?

If it's only an occasional (for example winter-and-spring) problem caused by the fact that some of us, silly chaps, try to grow somehow marginal or demanding species, then I don't care if this kind of spray (foliar) is not 100 % perfect and does not work in other cases. As long as it works with my plants.

It can also help on short term when you have a valuable species that you don't want to lose: If not treated promptly, manganese and boron deficiencies can be deadly. And if roots don't pump micronutrients efficiently because of the cold, what do you do? You just don't want to know because an articles says foliar spray "is not as great as advertisers say"?

Concerning myself, I fix the problem straight away and will work on the origin of the problem (if it's not just a cold problem) when I have more time (time is not always on our side) or when it will be best (spring, for example) with, for example, a serious application of organic matter, mycorrhiza, gypsum and other works depending on each case. As, indeed, every situation is different and requires a good understanding.

Of course, I agree with this article that foliar spray IS NOT a panacea and may not work with a big range of trees and shrubs. I also agree on the fact that it can be more efficient with plants growing in greenhouses compared to plants growing in exposed full sun.

The most important thing is: Don't believe advertisers, try to find as many objective and contradictory opinions as possible and first of all: Use facts. Reality. Reason. Try to know where the deficiency comes from: pH can explain some of it, but not always. A soil analysis can help much more. The absence or small amount of organic matter can also limit proper absorbtion for many species. And there are so many other reasons. It's only when you understand what is the cause of the deficiency that you can decide wether you want to use one option or another.

I do not want to sound like I criticize you Tom, on the contrary, your contribution is extremely useful (at leat it is to me). I just had the feeling the article was more nuanced and that my own experience was even a little more nuanced as well...

[NApalm]

i have been using liquefied organic seaweed extract from growmore through a hose end sprayer for the last two years once a month. I have seen a big imrovement in my palms. E.very other month i add blood meal and worm castings a top layer of mulch and water it in with fish emulsion. ihave had great success with this formula. ialso add a 13-5-8 palm fertilizer 2- 3times a year but not in winter .Starbucks free coffee grounds is also a cheap amendment.coffee coffee coffee

Nice! Sounds like a receipe for success

[Alicehunter2000]

Have there been any studies that show that foliar applied amendments are transported beyond the leaf structure into the rest of the plant?

[sonoranfans]

There are actually alot of articles on the web if you GOOGLE the topics: foliar feeding, plant metabolism, plant transpiration and photosynthesis.

Most of my palms are still in 1-15 gallon pots in well protected south facing location. I really dont root feed/water them more than once per week because of the cold weather.

I foliar feed(kelp/molasses mix) more often about twice a day in the morning and around sunset when stomatas under the leaves are open.

I dont want to risk overwatering the palms during the cold season because Ive read that palms minimize/slow down metabolism during the cold.

Foliar feed allows the bypass of nutrient uptakefrom theroots directly onto the photosynthetic engine of plant leaves.

Foliar feeding also produces an osmotic gradient and whereby stimulating the roots and trunk to supply water to the leaves.

Anyone here ever supply CO2 carbon dioxide or CO carbon monoxide to palms needed for photosynthesis via carbonated water foliar spray or smoke.

These principles are being applied to hydroponic culture...just wondering anyone applying these thoughts to palm culture and growth at least in the seedling

(15 gallons or less) stages.

Im pushing Green spears on my D. pembanas, prestoniana, decipiens, robusta, lasteliana, carlmithii, leucomella, paludosa, Kentiopsis, Clinostigma, Chambeyronia, Cyphophoenix, Burretiokentia, Carpoxylon, Cyphosperma, Ravenea giant&sambiranensis, Syagrus amara & pseudococcus, baueri&chesemani also.

I have to say the Eterpe oleraacea and precatorias are difficult grows and my D. pulilufera (2nd leaf stage) from J Marcus croaked and tokoravina a struggle also.

My palms are not as green or like SILK PLANT condition when I received them from Mr.Marcus but they are pushing GREEN spears.

Any thoughts and inputs apopreciated.

Ritchy

There are plenty of skeptics on the advertized effectiveness of foliar feeding. Here is one, there are many in academia. I do see a lot of commercial type articles that are positive, call me a skeptic when they have something to sell. I would think the better founded articles have some hard objective evidence on absorption rates.

http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~linda%20chalker-scott/horticultural%20myths_files/Myths/Foliar%20feeding.pdf

I would say this is a concept to be proven, not disproved as the natural(evolved) mechanisms of foliar feed are probably limited to nitrogen gas in rain, very different chemistry than commercial fertilizers. Nitrogen in rain should be more mobile (than components found in commercial fertilizer) in plant tissue as it has a relatively small molecular cross section. Most articles that I have read support the concept that some micros(not NPK) can be absorbed in small amounts, but those will not be distributed through the plant and there will not be nearly enough through foliar feeding only.

Hi Tom, thank you for this link, it was very instructive.

I read the whole article. Not really a scientific article (it has not been published in a scientific review and does not mention most of its references). However, it seems fair and rather reliable.

What surprises me somehow is that you sound extremely skeptical while this articles is not that "black and white" and is more nuanced. I share your opinion when you say "call me a skeptic when they have something to sale". But that doesn't mean that all adverts are always false. I don't trust them usually, but it doesn't mean I should reject it all and won't look any further. One should not be simplistic. But I know you're not.

I also wanted to point out that you say "Most articles that I have read support the concept that some micros(not NPK) can be absorbed in small amounts, but those will not be distributed through the plant and there will not be nearly enough through foliar feeding only."

More than NPK, this articles mentions "Results have been mixed in many cases, with some species responding well to treatment and others

remaining unaffected. Generally, the results suggest that foliar application of particular nutrients can be useful in crop production situations where soil conditions limit nutrient availability. For instance, alkaline soils do not readily release many metallic nutrients, especially iron and manganese. Zinc, copper, magnesium, molybdenum, boron, and calcium are other micronutrients required in small quantities that have been applied to foliage in an effort to relieve deficiencies and combat fruit disorders. Fruit, as adjacent tissue, can benefit from foliar spray."

This is precisely the experience I have and it confirmed what I learned and obseved in different schools and, above all, gardens.

On alkaline soils, or soils with severe unbalance (for example a soil which received too much chemical fertilizer for too long, which is typical in conventionnal agriculture), you may have too much carbonates (first case), or too much potash and phosphorus (second case). So plants may not absorb micronutrients (iron, manganese, boron, etc) and some macro (like calcium). And it gets worse in winter. Marginal species can show this type of winter deficiendy even on rather well balanced soils.

And I can tell you that from what I (and other colleagues) experieneced, foliar spray has proved to help to put nutrients exactly where they were deficient (leaves) in these situations. Something this otherwise useful and interesting article forgot to mention is that, although I totally agree concerning the fact that foliar spray can at best only be of local effect (leaves or fruits) and won't correct a deficiency which would affect the whole plant (won't provide nutrients to the trunks, etc), many micro-nutrients have a particularity: they hardly can be transported anyway! It is known and documented that vital elements like maganese, for exemple, once they were extracted from the soil don't move anymore from reserves to parts of the plants which would suffer from defficiency. This is why many of the palm growers have noticed that quite a few deficiencies (but not all) affect first of all the new emerging leaves (zigzag, folding, smaller sizes, burnt tips, etc) while the older leaves are more or less fine. So foliar spray brings the nutrient right where it is needed. Where it is deficient. That's what we want, after all... Don't we?

If it's only an occasional (for example winter-and-spring) problem caused by the fact that some of us, silly chaps, try to grow somehow marginal or demanding species, then I don't care if this kind of spray (foliar) is not 100 % perfect and does not work in other cases. As long as it works with my plants.

It can also help on short term when you have a valuable species that you don't want to lose: If not treated promptly, manganese and boron deficiencies can be deadly. And if roots don't pump micronutrients efficiently because of the cold, what do you do? You just don't want to know because an articles says foliar spray "is not as great as advertisers say"?

Concerning myself, I fix the problem straight away and will work on the origin of the problem (if it's not just a cold problem) when I have more time (time is not always on our side) or when it will be best (spring, for example) with, for example, a serious application of organic matter, mycorrhiza, gypsum and other works depending on each case. As, indeed, every situation is different and requires a good understanding.

Of course, I agree with this article that foliar spray IS NOT a panacea and may not work with a big range of trees and shrubs. I also agree on the fact that it can be more efficient with plants growing in greenhouses compared to plants growing in exposed full sun.

The most important thing is: Don't believe advertisers, try to find as many objective and contradictory opinions as possible and first of all: Use facts. Reality. Reason. Try to know where the deficiency comes from: pH can explain some of it, but not always. A soil analysis can help much more. The absence or small amount of organic matter can also limit proper absorbtion for many species. And there are so many other reasons. It's only when you understand what is the cause of the deficiency that you can decide wether you want to use one option or another.

I do not want to sound like I criticize you Tom, on the contrary, your contribution is extremely useful (at leat it is to me). I just had the feeling the article was more nuanced and that my own experience was even a little more nuanced as well...

though this is just one article, and not a definitive one at that, I have read other articles that are as or more skeptical from other horticultural departments at U of Florida, Univ North Carolina, and a few midwestern schools as well. I did all this about two years ago and do not care to revisit all, this one was a new one that popped up in the google search. Yes its not a reviewed article, but it seems no one funds foliar feeding studies anymore... not sure why. A definitive study would include mass transport rates into the leaf structures of different types of plants. It seems obvious that some penetration across the membrane is possible, but also part of the function of exterior membranes is to prevent that. I also concur with possibility of leaf burning with residual salts and I have actually seen that in some species. I did use foliar feeding when I first started growing palms and also more recently in florida when I though I found a new trace potion that was advocated on this board. I even used a surfactant as directed. the results were not obvious as all between treated and not treated. The application to roots of the seaweed and micros has worked well however. Perhaps the results are better in a shaded, moisture controlled greenhouse on certain types of palms. But the claims sometimes made by people that sell this stuff are way over the top and Ive yet to fin credible support for most of it in any unbiased(not part of th emoney chain) authority. I have however found that ag departments have studied the use of nutrients like humic acid and seaweed and the results were very positive in all articles on crops... So I do still foliar feed at times incidentally, but not purposefully. My main fertilization technique is via true time release prills... And I have had some good growth with the prills and the humic/seaweed extract.

here is a 5 gallon biz

[sonoranfans]

and here is is 2 years later this thanksgiving, about 8' overall

Edited February 12, 2013 by sonoranfans

[sonoranfans]

While I understand that the foliar approach is best used on palms in poor soil, perhaps my results were not as good because I ammend soil and my soil is sand with a little too acid pH. Its also true that chelated micros in the humic and seaweed are bio available in poor pH conditions. Here are some phoenix rupicolas, notorious for micro issues, and these show them.

Edited February 12, 2013 by sonoranfans

[sonoranfans]

in the same low pH soil(~6) with chelated micros they have recovered fairly well and grown a bit 2 years later...

[sonoranfans]

I tried the foliar approach on a potassium deficient copernicia a few years ago, and it just didnt work at all. This was part of the reason I became more skeptical on foliar feeding NPK... Still I dont dispute that it can work on some species under some conditions, but it is hard to foliar feed without feeding roots as well and I havent seen that research on palms. And then there are different kinds of palms, eg, the waxy leaves may really present a problem for water based foliar application as was repels water so surface absorption will be limited...

[stygiana]

Have there been any studies that show that foliar applied amendments are transported beyond the leaf structure into the rest of the plant?

Apart from original article by Dr. Tukey at the Michigan State University (mentioned in the article in Tom's link), I found the following articles:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC143603/

http://soilecology.biology.dal.ca/Reading%20Picks%20Assets/hargreaves%20et%20al%202008%20Plant%20and%20Soil%20raspberries.pdf

http://www.dissertations.wsu.edu/Dissertations/Spring2007/l_hoagland_041807.pdf

Foliar Spray of Nitrogen Fertilizer on Raised Bed Increases Yield of Transplanted Aman Rice over ConventionalMethod

Available at: http://www.google.fr/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=article%20%22foliar%20spray%22%20-glyphosate&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&ved=0CEQQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdownloads.hindawi.com%2Fisrn%2Fagronomy%2F2012%2F184953.pdf&ei=xlwaUe-UIoSA9gSmjYCoCQ&usg=AFQjCNFvy54VsomnP_JQ_YQZAyHa1hegZQ

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0098847201000909

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/saf/fs/1991/00000037/00000003/art00003

I don't trust a lot Wikipedia as some articles are writen by very subjective contributors and as long as a majority of contributers share that opinion or as long as the article is too technical to have enough contributors to contradict it, it remains as the published article.

For that reason, Wikipedia can sometimes maintain articles which are not true but believed to be true by a majority.

If Wikipedia had existed during the Middle-Age, then articles stating that the Earth is flat would have prevailed...

Nevertheless, the aticle on foliar spray contains some information and links. Here it is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foliar_feeding

And there is much more.

Foliar spray is not a panacea. Foliar spray is not efficient with many plants and under many situation. Foliar spray may not work for every one of us. But foliar has been efficient for me to compensate winter (and spring) stress as well as on new leaves showing signs of defficiencies (N, Mn, B, etc).

[stygiana]

And then there are different kinds of palms, eg, the waxy leaves may really present a problem for water based foliar application as was repels water so surface absorption will be limited...

Sure!!!

[kahili]

It is just common knowledge among growers that foliar feeding, i.e. spraying the leaves and not drenching the soil is a very inefficient way to fertilize. There are a few very specific times when you would do it-but only in a last chance desperation type of situation-and it would not replace your fertilization program . Most (the commercial) foliar ferts have all the micro nutrients that are needed, and there are plenty of different foliar ferts that are made up of different amts of micro nutrients so that you can pick and choose what you are looking for for a particular crop. Believe me, if my plants were lacking in magnesium, I would not look to spray on a liquid magnesium solution-that is such a short term, ineffective and laborious way to go. The quicker, easier and more effective way is to add magnesium to the fert solution and drench the roots and let it take it up that way. Same with all the micro nutrients (of which they are already in the fert). Thats a one time application (or once a month perhaps-as opposed to twice a day). Let me put it another way-you could not grow a commercial crop through only spraying the leaves-the plants would not be sellable. Thats how ineffective a process it is.

Ritchy, I get where you think you are on to a good thing, and thats cool, but I guess I am writing this more to other readers here who might think its a good idea. If you want healthy plants-watch your PH, have good drainage and a good well balanced fertilizer program that is available to the roots.

Ritchy, I would also caution you against spraying your leaves at sunset. The stomata are not open then (unless they are succulents) and you are flirting with inviting a leaf fungus by allowing your leaves to go through the night wet. Better to do it earlier in the afternoon and give the leaves time to dry before the evening.