Rhapis humilis- all male or not?

[Geoff]

From what I read and was told (until just recently) was that Rhapis humilis is a species pretty much unknown in the wild and only propagated from root stock/suckers/offsets as the plants are all male. Is this not true any more? I read a write up on the species in Palmpedia by someone who seems to know what's what and it said nothing of the sort... that male and female flowers look a lot alike. Still no comments were made about its propagation - are fertile seed ever produced... are ANY seed ever produced by this plant? Just curious? I have seen this plant in flower frequently, but never any seed produced, as I have seen on some other species of Rhapis. Just curious.

[edric]

Hi Geoff, reading on to the bottom of the taxonomical description that I posted on Palmpedia, it does say "fruit unavailable" and after doing a bit of research I found this info that supports your contention about there being no females, read on, Ed

http://www.floridata.com/ref/r/rhap_hum.cfm

http://www.rhapisgardens.com/rhapis-palms/

[Alicehunter2000]

Nice read, Thanks

[Gonzer]

Years ago someone thought they hit the Mother Lode and imported hundreds of thousands of seeds to sell, purportedly of Rhapis. Ka-ching!!!!

Turned out to be seeds of Guihaia argyrata which is why it is not a rarity.

[Phoenikakias]

Is it also true that most of the cultivated Rhapis excelsa specimens are female, while male plants are rare?

[gyuseppe]

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=24818&hl=%2Brhapis+%2Bhumilis

[Jeff Searle]

Is it also true that most of the cultivated Rhapis excelsa specimens are female, while male plants are rare?

I never heard of this. In a matter of fact, I have a large,old clump here at the nursery and last year collected over 2,000 seed of them. And most all of them germinated. I also never did hand pollinate them either.

[Geoff]

what does a large old clump mean? Are these the palms that grow 20' tall or more? I was also told R humilis did not do well in Florida.. .that does not seem the case, either, unless what you are calling R humilis and what we Californians are calling R humilis are different palms.

[Phoenikakias]

I think Jeff has answered to my previous question and so he was referring to Rhapis excelsa

[Brucer]

I have had rhapis humilis in my garden for about 20 years.

As far as I know there has ever only been male plants.

They grow much taller then rhapis excelsa, and are much more difficult to transplant.

I have it growing in 3 areas, and managed to get 2 transplanted plants to grow, out of 6.

A beautiful palm.

There were palms sold as r.humilis in Sydney a few years ago, that were actually a smaller rhapis from Thailand, r. subtilis.

[Geoff]

I too have gotten palms labeled as such from on line sources and all have turned out to be some miniature species (relatively miniature, that is). Maybe the better question is what are the palms we are growing here in California... are they a real species, or as some suggested, a cultivar that has never been seen in the wild and only exists as male plants? Perhaps there is a palm that is the 'original humilis' that somehow got brushed aside when this palm arrived on the cultivated scene and was given that name. MAybe Rhapis giganticus would be a better id? It is so unlike any other Rhapis growing in cultivation.

[monkeyranch]

I've heard two scenarios for the all male R. humilis's enigmatic origin. It could be the "last of it's kind" in which the original species including both males and females are now extinct as it's habitat has been rearranged for human needs. The flatlands of eastern China and even much of the mountains have been thoroughly humanized by agriculture and settlement for centuries, down to almost every last acre. The other explanation is it was a uniquely, robust selection of a R. excelsa that has been propagated from the same clones for many years and it just happened to be a male individual. Chalk it up to an individual seedling's variability or maybe a localized population of big-formed excelsa that is now gone but it is not a distinct species. As for the R. humilis seeds and the claim that "females have always existed in China but have been previously inaccessible to foreigners" it would seem somebody could produce a female inflorescence/fruiting infructescence on a R. humilis looking plant or at least a photo. The proof wouldn't be that hard to obtain. Though a little skeptical I still ordered R. humilis seeds from RPS a couple of years ago. They are only 1 gallon sized and still too small to show any certain humilis traits, but I can say they are hardier to frost than the R. excelsa seedlings I have of the same size. Maybe humilis pollen was applied to another Rhapis species. Whatever they are hopefully as they grow bigger the more numerously segmented humilis leaves will become apparent. In the meantime makes for good palm mythology.

Edited January 4, 2013 by monkeyranch

[Phoenikakias]

I have a male Rhapis humilis and is so different from excelsa (also male) like day from night. Former has thinner stems and, most important (in my climate), it is far more resistant to strong wind than the excelsa keeping always its nice look. The Rhapis subtilis (big form) has an intermediate wind resistance ans appearance.

[Eric in Orlando]

Is it also true that most of the cultivated Rhapis excelsa specimens are female, while male plants are rare?

I never heard of this. In a matter of fact, I have a large,old clump here at the nursery and last year collected over 2,000 seed of them. And most all of them germinated. I also never did hand pollinate them either.

Jeff, that is cool !

I have never seen seed on any R. excelsa around here. In 30 years working lawn maintancnence/nurseries/Leu Gardens I have been around plenty of old, mature clumps but never come across seeds/seedlings.

Do you get much variation in the seedlings ?

[Brad-Tampa]

Is it also true that most of the cultivated Rhapis excelsa specimens are female, while male plants are rare?

I never heard of this. In a matter of fact, I have a large,old clump here at the nursery and last year collected over 2,000 seed of them. And most all of them germinated. I also never did hand pollinate them either.

Jeff, that is cool !

I have never seen seed on any R. excelsa around here. In 30 years working lawn maintancnence/nurseries/Leu Gardens I have been around plenty of old, mature clumps but never come across seeds/seedlings.

Do you get much variation in the seedlings ?

After seeing this I went out and took a bunch of pictures.

The R. humilis distributed in Florida in the 1960's were all male and presumably came from divisions of the same plant. I don't think anyone didn't assume that there were both sexes somewhere in China. This one was half of an "egg can" sized plant from Holmes Nursery, a long gone establishment.

The garden has several varieties of R. excelsa. I noticed seed on them this year too:

The garden also has several different forms of R.subtilis. This one is larger with thin leaflets, others are short with broader leaflets as well as combinations of both:

[Brad-Tampa]

This is another R. subtilis next to an excelsa. This subtilis is blooming and holding seed from the last bloom cycle:

One difference in habit between these species in older, more established gardens is that both humilis and subtilis remain in diistinct clumps, while excelsa will, over time, spread and dominate other plantings within the bed.

[Dave-Vero]

Rhapis humilis produces fruit. Flora of China. The treatment's by an all-star group of experts.

I have a small Rhapis fruiting in the yard. Now to figure out the species.

[Brad-Tampa]

I would not be surprised that the relatively unusual "naturally" occuring Florida seed sets in R. excelsa observed by Jeff on the east coast and in my garden in Tampa may be due to a relatively new introduction of a pollinator insect species. The subtilis have been seeding in the yard for years, but this is the first time I can remember seeing excelsa seed.

[Geoff]

That blurb above from Flora of China is the one repeated on palmpedia that got me wondering if there were indeed female plants around. That may be the only mention of one in the literature, though. 6 meters seems to be the right plant, though.

[edbrown_III]

To add to the confusion I have gotten Rhapis seeds over the years --- a few of them are very short maybe R. excelsa --- I collected some seeds under a overpass in Jax (white seeds but the plants were tall and leaves course likely R. subtilus )

if you do a search on ebay you get R. humilus seeds for sale (ho ho) . I have R. excelsa spreading in the back yard (as Brad pointed out)

[Creekside]

After decades of not seeing viable seeds on R. excelsa, this year there are thousands, in at least two locations here in Sarasota. A few years ago, a friend found a handful of seeds on a single excelsa, which I germinated. They don't appear to be hybrids. We've also been speculating on where the pollen is coming from and by what means. How interesting that this is happening in Tampa and south Florida too.

[Jeff Searle]

Is it also true that most of the cultivated Rhapis excelsa specimens are female, while male plants are rare?

I never heard of this. In a matter of fact, I have a large,old clump here at the nursery and last year collected over 2,000 seed of them. And most all of them germinated. I also never did hand pollinate them either.

Jeff, that is cool !

I have never seen seed on any R. excelsa around here. In 30 years working lawn maintancnence/nurseries/Leu Gardens I have been around plenty of old, mature clumps but never come across seeds/seedlings.

Do you get much variation in the seedlings ?

No, not one single plant.

[Mandrew968]

I got my humilis from Creekside--THANKS! It is planted adjacent to my mutifida. The two look very silmilar to one another. My mutifida was choosen from many and I picked the most narrow leaflet I could find. The humilis actually has a more narrow leaflet than the multifida! The humilis has one stem that is growing more vigorusly than the others and the leaflet is considerably thicker than the other surrounding stems, but not as thick as an excelsa hybrid, next to it. I have had flower structures on my multifida and my subtilis(small and very densely clustering) has lots of female flowers with what must be infertile seed as I have no Rhapis nearby, that could polinate it(that I know of). Rhapis seed is always white? What could cause the one stem to have thicker leaflets than the rest? I doubt it could be a castaway hybrid seed--though it is slightly taller than the other canes, it is out numbered by maybe 5 to 1 and I would assume a hybrid rhapis would have more than one cane at already past four feet tall... I will give photos later if anyone wants.

[Eric in Orlando]

Here at Leu Gardens there are several huge, old clumps of R. humilis. They were planted decades ago when this was still the estate of MKr. leu so were planted somethime between the late 1930's and the mid 50's. They are many feet across. I have seen flowers on them but never any seed. And while they are better behaved then R. excelsa, these old clumps do expand out in the same manner.

[JasonD]

R. multifida is very popular in the indoor trade now in California, and resembles a 1/3 scale R. humilis. These plants appear to be seedlings. Being indoor plants, they rarely if ever show flowers.

Whenever we see R. humilis they appear to be divisions, though the rumor prevails here that females exist in China. I can't recall what Henderson says in his book on the palms of South Asia.

[Mandrew968]

R. multifida is very popular in the indoor trade now in California, and resembles a 1/3 scale R. humilis. These plants appear to be seedlings. Being indoor plants, they rarely if ever show flowers.

Whenever we see R. humilis they appear to be divisions, though the rumor prevails here that females exist in China. I can't recall what Henderson says in his book on the palms of South Asia.

I think Henderson lumped them all into excelsa.

[sarasota alex]

Henderson does list R. humilis and R. multifida as separate species, but here are the Notes on R. humilis: "A doubtful species, known mostly from cultivated plants of unknown origin".

Very important to this discussion is what Henderson says in the Field Characters: "Fruit not known."

[Eric in Orlando]

Has anyone hybridized R. humilis with R. excelsa or any other Rhapis ?

[Darold Petty]

Louis Hooper of La Habra, CA has made R. laoensis x R. humilis. He calls the F1 'Alicia' to honor his granddaughter.

He also made R. multifida x R. humilis.. no name assignment, but beautiful plants. I have 3 of this second hybrid and hope to have F2 from these three siblings.

I plan to offer an 'Alicia' by mail for the January PT fundraiser.