The Needle Palm in its Habitat!!! Rhapidophyllum hystrix

[kylecawazafla]

Hello everyone! I traveled throughout Florida over the last week and stumbled upon a few groves of the world's hardiest palm growing in their natural habitat. I snapped some photos! I hope you enjoy!

The first place is Devil's Millhopper in Gainesville, FL. This is a natural sinkhole 120 feet deep. This photo was taken along the descent.

If you look closely, you can see these palm trees growing along its edges

Well, this isn't a needle palm... but here are Sabal palmetto's growing in their habitat outside of Gainesville, FL

Here is a Needle Palm growing at the bottom of a ravine in Mike Roess Gold Head Branch (yes - the name is that long) State Park. This is southwest of Jacksonville, FL. This palm was interesting because it seemed to display a trunk! It reminded me of one I saw in Newport Beach, CA many years ago.

Here are more growing in the same ravine

The thicket can get quite messy

[kylecawazafla]

Considering how flat Florida is, it's amazing how these palms always find a slope to grow on!

If you look closely, you can see the needles!!

This particular palm had shorter leaflets than the others.

This one is growing right in the water

[paulgila]

great shots,as always,kyle.

[Steve the palmreader]

Nice work !

[TikiRick]

Love this Floridian!!

[Dave-Vero]

The big clumps on the bluff at Torreya State Park on the Apalachicola River are spectacular. I think that's where the full page photo in Genera Palmarum, first edition, was taken.

[Stevetoad]

Great shots!

[tjwalters]

They look nice and healthy, but appear to have fewer offsets than those I see in cultivation in more northerly locations. I wonder if cold temperatures stimulate clumping (thinking about gibberellic acid). ...so I pulled up Google and found this: "Gibberellins are produced in greater mass when the plant is exposed to cold temperatures. They stimulate cell elongation, breaking and budding, seedless fruits, and seed germination." I guess I did learn something in college after all.

[Alicehunter2000]

Really like the S. palmetto habitat picture, reminds me how lucky I am to live around these parts.....even if it is cold sometimes.

[David Clulow]

Are you sure Rhapidophyllum hystrix is the world's hardiest palm ? I always thought this honor went to Trachycarpus fortunei (vernacular name Chusan Palm) from central and southern China. Bean states: "This palm, which is the only species that can be termed really hardy in this country (England). T. fortunei is reliably hardy over most of Britain. It has made over 40 feet tall in places, whereas, the few specimens of R. hystrix which have survived are still very low and never make good specimens and always look tatty. Some old specimens of T. fortunei in Sussex, in the south of England fruit heavily and provide hundreds if not thousands of seedlings around them.

[Alicehunter2000]

David, maybe the needle palms in England don't get enough heat. The best indicator would be an absolute low tolorance imo. Is there anyone in the northern U.S that has hot summers and brutally cold winters that can chime in?

[Stevetoad]

there are neddles living in D.C!!! thats crazy cold. does anyone know if there are anyother palms living there?

[tjwalters]

David (S.) - you are correct. R. hystrix is definitely hardier than Trachycarpus spp., but needs more summer heat. Here in the mid-Atlantic USA, I keep trying T. fortunei varieties, and all eventually succumb to the cold if not protected every year. Meanwhile, my needles keep on going and going. One has developed into a real monster and has withstood temperatures down to -8.4F. They do not generally form trunks, though, and will never attain the height of a mature windmill.

Here's my largest (with yardstick for scale):

[tjwalters]

there are neddles living in D.C!!! thats crazy cold. does anyone know if there are anyother palms living there?

Also crazy hot in the summer! There are also Sabal minor palms, and there are a few Trachycarpus palms in warmer micro-climates around the area.

[PalmatierMeg]

Last time I was in my old stomping ground of Alexandria/Fairfax County a nursery along Rt. 1 was selling trunking Trachies in 25g pots. I wondered if they could survive not just winter cold (record -7F in the early 80s) but the area's hot, humid summers. Not likely unless they were planted in a great microclimate.

If I still lived there I'd definitely try a needle. Tom, yours is beautiful.

[Halekuma]

Wow Kyle!! thank you very much... always loved those photos of palms from their habitat...!!!

Actually, you inspired me to make the same in colombia next time I will travel there (hopefully soon)... My wife is colombian, was grown in Medellin(antioquia) but her family is from Santander. I was a few days looking on the net for some rare cycads and I found Santander rainforests are the habitat of lots of rare cycads (cycas encephalartoides for example) and palms that people does not see usually (or even know about))... Actually they have explored 25% of the land at best)

Also, looks like palms and cycads from there are from high elevation (same for antioquia dept (medellin) where our finca/land is located)...

Sometimes I have travel across some forest there and found rare geonoma like palms growing in the wild (less than 10C is an usual temp there at night so maybe some of them could have some cold hardiness), Santander is G.Interrupta original habitat but they were not... Sadly, going alone is not an easy option there but I will try to make it one day or another...)

Edited December 22, 2012 by Halekuma

[AlekLO]

Thanks for the pictures..I'm looking for seeds or seedling R.histryx but it is difficult to find..

[ghar41]

These are really great pictures thank you for posting! This is a great plant for us in our climate- cold and wet in the winter and hot and dry in the summer. It always looks as good after mid 20F as it does after 105F.

[Sutter Bob]

Great photos - I'm following in Glenn's footsteps with a seedling here that I got at the northern California chapter meeting in Berkeley last March. So far so good.

[WestCoastGal]

Thanks for the wonderful au natural photos. I have always loved the leaflet pattern and scissored end texture on these fronds. Wish our area was more temperate to grow others in this group. We're still working on our plant list for completing our landscaping but the needle palm has been high on my list since the beginning. We can get very hot and dry during the summer (generally 90s-100s, one year 113! Yuck!) and while our wet winter only gets down to the mid- to high-20s generally (historically has been lower), I think it will do well here in full sun and hopefully be something that will only get more beautiful and fuller as time goes on. And something that I won't have to worry about replacing for a long time no matter what our weather dishes out. If we end up planting it, I'll be able to report back in a few years how it's held up.

BTW our T. Fortunei doesn't seem to like our area as much as some of our other cold hardy palms. The variation we have (female BTW) has droopy fronds, as opposed to stiff ones, and not sure if it's the sun, wind (although a bit sheltered) or maybe not watering enough but the fronds get burned/dry and just not as nice looking as our butia or mules in our yard.

Edited December 25, 2012 by WestCoastGal

[WestCoastGal]

"Wish our area was more temperate to grow others in this group" ...Meant to say other palms in "the Rhapis family" (like the Lady Palm), which I always think of as being close in looks to the Rhapidophyllum hystrix. I personally prefer the shrubbier version of R hystrix although I understand it clumps more and probably is more work to keep shaped.

Edited December 25, 2012 by WestCoastGal

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

David,

R hystrix is much more tolerant of intense cold (-20c/0f) than Trachycarpus. Trachycarpus is certainly among the most cold hardy arborescent palms, but R hystrix are known to have endured temps to -20f/-30c! No Trachycarpus I know of have ever even come close to those temps. Furthermore, i have personal experience with R hystrix enduring 30 days below freezing even covered with snow and ice and absolute low around 0f/-20c. Again, Trachycarpus wouldnt have survived that. Summers for this particular palm are Hot. In fact in summer 2012, the high was 108f which I believe is about 47c. In other situations (cool summers), it's likely other species would be better adapted and thus more durable. I have pix but can't post until Friday.

Are you sure Rhapidophyllum hystrix is the world's hardiest palm ? I always thought this honor went to Trachycarpus fortunei (vernacular name Chusan Palm) from central and southern China. Bean states: "This palm, which is the only species that can be termed really hardy in this country (England). T. fortunei is reliably hardy over most of Britain. It has made over 40 feet tall in places, whereas, the few specimens of R. hystrix which have survived are still very low and never make good specimens and always look tatty. Some old specimens of T. fortunei in Sussex, in the south of England fruit heavily and provide hundreds if not thousands of seedlings around them.

[aloetom]

Really Great Photos !

Habitat shots are always great to see.

Thank you so much for the time and effort to get this out to us all. I really appreciate it !

Be well,

Tom

[kahili]

I couldn't say for sure which is more cold hardy. I do know that a long time ago (maybe 24 yrs ago) I planted two really small T. fortunei and just left them through all the cold winters we had-never protected them when it was really cold (which I would not have done now!) and one survived and is still alive and kicking. Just the trunk is about I do know that we had some very cold winters through that time span of 24 yrs. I remember a couple of times when it went down to -8 F (-22/23C) and it survived that , and it was still pretty small at the time, which makes it all the more surprising. Also, it was planted out in the open-no microclimate. At the same time I planted two S. minors which are still alive today and doing well.

I have two Needles, planted at the same time around 6 or so yrs ago and the one in the sun is easily 2-3 times larger than the one that gets a lot more shade and is much fuller and is about 7-8' high. I have never protected them either, but they have never seen temps below 8F either.

As for trachies and heat/humidity, I think they do fine. I think that our summers here in Raleigh NC pretty much equal Florida for heat and humidity as we are so far inland. Many times its hotter here in the summer than Miami. I have never seen any sign of heat distress on them, even when we have heat spells where its over 100 for days at a time. Same with periods of drought, of which I really don't water the trachies as they are established.

The one factor that stands out for me is how much the amt of sun that each of these three palms gets makes a huge difference in size. The oldest trachy that I wrote about at the top of this post is also the shortest because it gets so much shade during the day-it only gets sun in the summer in the afternoon-same with the smaller Needle and one of the Sabal minors. I planted a Trachy in 2004 in full sun which is only 8 yrs ago, but is much taller than the one that is in the shade but is 16 yrs older! Thats the sun factor. Same with the S. minors. The one in the shade is not that full, but the one in the sun is way larger with tons of babies that are not babies anymore!

So, I couldn't say which is the most cold hardy, but my guess would be the Sabal minor taking that prize. If I lived in a colder climate, Sabal minor would be the first palm that I planted.

[Jimhardy]

In about 5 years of growing Trachys and Needles in Iowa(it is hot in summer here)I have never had

a Needle palm pull but have seen T.Fortunei leveled to the ground under the same conditions....

Sabal Louisiana,S.Brazoria and McCurtain are all tougher then Trachys too.

I was not a fan of Needle palms really until I saw how they survived the winter here(with protection of course)

really no contest between the two in my experience.

I protected one of the Needle palms with only a leaf cage in what turned out to be the coldest temps

we have seen here recently(-18F)it was still frozen solid in early March when I uncovered it.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Jimhardy

[buffy]

David: Sabal minor and Rhapidiophylum hystrix are hands down the most cold tolerant palms. When people refer to Sabal minor "McCurtain", they're refering to a county in Southeastern Oklahoma where the Sabal minors have experienced -20F(30C) IN HABITAT. What other palms on the planet are subjected to that kind of cold in habitat. Even here in Northeast Texas, Sabal minors have experienced 0F in habitat in the past 25 years.

[JakeK]

Kyle, awesome pictures of their native habitat!

Regarding hardiness, for me Sabal minor is the most cold hardy, followed by the needle palm then Trachycarpus fortunei. The Sabal minor and needle palm were never protected other than where they were planted, on the south side of the house surrounded by brick walls to the West, North and East. I grew both for 6 years. The needle palm succumbed to rot after two extremely wet winters with lows around -5*F each. The Trachy was potted and the pot sunk 12 inches in the ground and it was wrapped in plastic and straw during the coldest nights. It thrived for 5 years until I sold it to a guy in Tennessee. It grew from a 1 gallon size to 3 feet of clear trunk. The Sabal minor palms are almost fail-proof with no artificial protection if planted in a sheltered spot.

[Jimhardy]

On the other hand.....the Bulgarian Trachys are said to have survived -20F or so but they were full grown?

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

Here's a pic of R. hystrix in USDA Zone 6B where the average lowest temps of the year are between 0 and -5F (-18 to -20C). This plant has been in the ground for 5 winters and never been protected. It was transplanted from a 5 gallon (20L) pot. It has been covered with snow and ice for up to a month at a time but I cannot say the lowest temperature its experienced. Its in my parent's garden in Smithton IL, a suburb of St Louis MO.

[edric]

For Kyles hi resolution photos (he gave me the link to), go here, Ed

http://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/Rhapidophyllum_hystrix

[JasonD]

"Wish our area was more temperate to grow others in this group" ...Meant to say other palms in "the Rhapis family" (like the Lady Palm), which I always think of as being close in looks to the Rhapidophyllum hystrix. I personally prefer the shrubbier version of R hystrix although I understand it clumps more and probably is more work to keep shaped.

In Sunset zone 14 you should be able to do well with Rhapis multifida in shade with regular moisture. It was one of the hardiest palms during the 1990 freeze at UC Berkeley Botanical Garden. Have you tested them?

Rhapis humilis would be the next-hardiest, and then R. excelsa. They're all well-worth trying in your climate. Dick Douglas grew many different Rhapis and his garden is zone 14 Walnut Creek.

[WestCoastGal]

JasonD, appreciate the info and no, I hadn't really looked into them but will now. Problem for us right now is that our planting areas, due to the house orientation on the lot and being in a fairly new development, don't have much shade. After transplanting two large mules two years ago, we now have a small area of canopy protection in one planting bed. We've added some structures--bbq island with pergola and a dining pergola both about 10 feet high--since then, but I don't think the shadows cast from them will provide much shade were I would like to get shade. Yard is still a work in progress but I've been searching out primarily plants with full sun to partial sun requirements. I will definitely look into your suggestions however.

Dick was kind enough to invite us for a tour a year or so ago but we weren't able to take him up at that time. One of my regrets. I have looked through the many photo tours of his garden on the forum and thankful we have those images. I remember early on looking through the Cold Hardy Palms on the N. Calif. Palm Society site (noticed that many were photo credited to Dick), and added mules and the R. hystrix to our wish list as a result. I understand we got very lucky finding the mules we did, right time right place scenario, and know the R. hystrix can be found locally although now I'm debating about which variation of it I'd rather see planted. Is the R. multifida fairly common?

Edited December 31, 2012 by WestCoastGal

[Jeff Searle]

Kyle,

Thanks for these superb habitat pictures, much appreciated!

Jeff

[iamjv]

Cool shots, thanks!!!

[edric]

I've added this to the Palmpedia page, it's interesting, and from vol. one in 1956, Ed

https://www.palms.org/principes/1956/v1n1p5-7.pdf

[bukezi]

Great photos thanks Kyle!

[John Case]

"Wish our area was more temperate to grow others in this group" ...Meant to say other palms in "the Rhapis family" (like the Lady Palm), which I always think of as being close in looks to the Rhapidophyllum hystrix. I personally prefer the shrubbier version of R hystrix although I understand it clumps more and probably is more work to keep shaped.

In Sunset zone 14 you should be able to do well with Rhapis multifida in shade with regular moisture. It was one of the hardiest palms during the 1990 freeze at UC Berkeley Botanical Garden. Have you tested them?

Rhapis humilis would be the next-hardiest, and then R. excelsa. They're all well-worth trying in your climate. Dick Douglas grew many different Rhapis and his garden is zone 14 Walnut Creek.

Jason, Walnut Creek is zone 15, not 14 but Zone 9b (USDA) the same as I am in Brnetwood where it is definitely Zone 14......his cold is not quite as cold and much more influenced by Bay marine impacts......His Rhapis collection is much more easily grown there as it does not get the brutal dry heat that we get,...that is the difference, I think.